Drugs, crime, and the law

[JAB 0]

Wow! Nice to see that Japan is in the same league with the US with their draconian views on drug laws, and outdated attitudes!

It is too bad, but he should have know better. Do they not drug test in Sumo?

Oh and for the few who seem to think pot is in the same league as heroin, coke etc...... get a life and smoke a fatty! It is painfully obvious many of you speak without experience, and fall in line with governmental propaganda when it comes to drug use and reality.

Cheers

Jake

[Mark Buckton 1]

Wow! Nice to see that Japan is in the same league with the US with their draconian views on drug laws, and outdated attitudes!

It is too bad, but he should have know better. Do they not drug test in Sumo?

Oh and for the few who seem to think pot is in the same league as heroin, coke etc...... get a life and smoke a fatty! It is painfully obvious many of you speak without experience, and fall in line with governmental propaganda when it comes to drug use and reality.

Cheers

Jake

narrow minded Jake - pot / weed / whatever - and the crime it causes as users need more and more money to keep up is part of the problem.

I DO have experience of seeing this sadly - back in the UK. Manchester in the 1980s was not the best place in the world because of drugs.

Stand on the OT terraces every other Sat and smell it all around you - then watch things kick-off after the game! Not good.

It is painfully obvious you DO speak with experience - do you smoke regularly?

[ryafuji 815]

Wow! Nice to see that Japan is in the same league with the US with their draconian views on drug laws, and outdated attitudes!

It is too bad, but he should have know better. Do they not drug test in Sumo?

Oh and for the few who seem to think pot is in the same league as heroin, coke etc...... get a life and smoke a fatty! It is painfully obvious many of you speak without experience, and fall in line with governmental propaganda when it comes to drug use and reality.

Cheers

Jake

narrow minded Jake - pot / weed / whatever - and the crime it causes as users need more and more money to keep up is part of the problem.

I DO have experience of seeing this sadly - back in the UK. Manchester in the 1980s was not the best place in the world because of drugs.

Stand on the OT terraces every other Sat and smell it all around you - then watch things kick-off after the game! Not good.

It is painfully obvious you DO speak with experience - do you smoke regularly?

There is no link whatsoever between cannabis and crime. You are clouding the issue by mixing up soft and hard drugs in this way-- they are quite different.

[Mark Buckton 1]

There is no link whatsoever between cannabis and crime

Can you show that to be true? I can show you the names of several guys caught committing crimes whilst 'on' pot back i nthe 80s. Doesn't it count?

[Asashosakari 19,669]

There is no link whatsoever between cannabis and crime.

I'd love to see countries implement my favourite solution, namely to legalize soft drugs like pot and simultaneously step up the penalties for both dangerous behaviour and actual crimes while under the influence. Toked up and caught driving a car? Your three-month reservation at Casa Pentonville awaits you! I wonder what the stoner community (not to mention the "no link whatsoever between cannabis and crime" community) would think about that.

Sadly, the current approach is often quite the opposite, with being stoned or drunk out of your mind actually getting you a lesser penalty for many crimes because "you didn't know what you were doing".

Edited August 18, 2008 by Asashosakari

[ryafuji 815]

There is no link whatsoever between cannabis and crime.

I'd love to see countries implement my favourite solution, namely to legalize soft drugs like pot and simultaneously step up the penalties for both dangerous behaviour and actual crimes while under the influence. Toked up and caught driving a car? Your three-month reservation at Casa Pentonville awaits you! I wonder what the stoner community (not to mention the "no link whatsoever between cannabis and crime" community) would think about that.

Sadly, the current approach is often quite the opposite, with being stoned or drunk out of your mind actually getting you a lesser penalty because "you didn't know what you were doing".

I was actually responding to Mark Buckton's assertion that cannabis users cause crime as they "need more and more money to keep up". Heroin users may need to steal to feed their addiction but not cannabis users.

[Asashosakari 19,669]

I was actually responding to Mark Buckton's assertion that cannabis users cause crime as they "need more and more money to keep up".

Then you shouldn't have written "no link whatsoever between cannabis and crime", perhaps. There's a lot more potentially drug-related crime than just that committed for purposes of getting drug money.

[ryafuji 815]

I was actually responding to Mark Buckton's assertion that cannabis users cause crime as they "need more and more money to keep up".

Then you shouldn't have written "no link whatsoever between cannabis and crime", perhaps. There's a lot more potentially drug-related crime than just that committed for purposes of getting drug money.

Agreed-- I should have been clearer in the point I was trying to put across. It's late...

Edited August 18, 2008 by ryafuji

[_the_mind_ 0]

Oh and for the few who seem to think pot is in the same league as heroin, coke etc...... get a life and smoke a fatty! It is painfully obvious many of you speak without experience, and fall in line with governmental propaganda when it comes to drug use and reality.

this is by far the most ignorant statement in the entire thread. someone doesnt agree with you and you tell them to get a life. you sure know how to back up your position. good job sir ...the rest of your post is baseless also

Edited August 19, 2008 by _the_mind_

[Hashira 0]

Oh and for the few who seem to think pot is in the same league as heroin, coke etc...... get a life and smoke a fatty! It is painfully obvious many of you speak without experience, and fall in line with governmental propaganda when it comes to drug use and reality.

this is by far the most ignorant statement in the entire thread. someone doesnt agree with you and you tell them to get a life. you sure know how to back up your position. good job sir ...the rest of your post is baseless also

While I agree with you that "get a life" is a poor choice of words, I think the MIS prize would be more appropriately awarded to something like this:

I can show you the names of several guys caught committing crimes whilst 'on' pot back in the 80s. Doesn't it count?

I can show you the names of several guys caught committing crimes whilst wearing red shoes, after eating a Big Mac, with names starting with R, etc...No, that does not count.

Surely people who have actually tried marijuana would be more capable of reporting on its effects than those making a judgement based on what drugs have or have not done to various cities. Jake's advice is not that terrible; try smoking a joint, and see if you suddenly feel violent or otherwhise more likely to commit a crime. There is a large difference between the effects of marijuana and those of other drugs. Some drugs make you feel violent, raise your energy level, etc. Marijuana is not one of them.

None of this is to claim that Wakanohou is guilt-free. He clearly committed a crime, although I personally believe that the law he broke is an unjust one. I live in Japan, know its drug laws, and obey them. I hope that marijuana will one day be decriminalized in this country, but will not even consider using it before that day comes.

If you are seriously interested in evidence about the link between crime and marijuana, there is plenty out there; Google is your friend. Remember that there is a difference between a link and a cause, though. I imagine crime and marijuana use are both high in various cities, countries, income levels, ethnicities, etc, but that does not mean that the crime is caused by marijuana use.

one article to get you started at the Schaffer Drug Library.

[Orion 431]

Somebody said: Surely people who have actually tried marijuana would be more capable of reporting on its effects than those making a judgement based on what drugs have or have not done to various cities.

Orion replies: I don't think so; I am thinking of some people I knew who had a very bad alcohol dependency. When they were sober they clearly had no recollection at all of what they had said while under the influence, and their denials were absolutely sincere -- to anybody who hadn't heard them.

And while I'm writing: before you make any more comparisons, think how lucky Wakanoho is that this isn't Singapore. They have the death penalty there for drug offenses.

Orion

[Mark Buckton 1]

just to add to the very sensible comments from Orion (above) - and Hashira (is that 'hash' coincidental BTW?) - the victions of drug related crime have opinions and experience too.

I have been a victim of drug related crime. Does that experience not count as I myself have never smked a joint - or a cigarette?

Perhaps the most interesting point in all of the above is the glaring lack of 'I've smoked' and no big deal. If no biggie, JAB and co - what do you have to be afraid of in admitting it?

[Fujisan 533]

Because cannabis is illegal, it causes a lot of crime. We can speculate that this crime would disappear if it were made legal but while it is illegal it certainly causes a lot of problems. Around here in Canada where some well known high quality stuff is grown there are houses burning down because they're set up as grow ops with illegal wiring to get around the hydro costs; farmer's fields are taken over for the stuff (good business for pilots flying with special cameras looking for it though); the turf wars over selling the stuff are bad.

:-| I've got a better idea,lets legalise everything....

Then there definately wont be any crime. ;-)

[Itchygao 0]

utterly absurd.

not a 20 year old guy smoking weed ... but the kind of reaction this thing generates. Japan is a land of wonders ....

:-|

This reminds me of the U.S. in the 1960's. We had kids going to jail for 10-15 years without chance for parole for being caught with under an ounce of grass. The cannabis laws in this country were so outdated & outlandish they HAD to be changed, or an entire generation was going ot be "warehoused" as soon as the massive prison complexes were built to house them.

Fortunately for the many, the misfortunes of the few led to the laws being amended. In cities with college campuses marijuana possession became akin to a traffic ticket, including the mail in $5.00 fine. If there is nothing that can be done for Wakanohou let us hope his great misfortune causes an archaic system to pause and self reflect.

[hidenohana 0]

If there is nothing that can be done for Wakanohou let us hope his great misfortune causes an archaic system to pause and self reflect.

Haha. That's a good one.

[Asashosakari 19,669]

This reminds me of the U.S. in the 1960's. We had kids going to jail for 10-15 years without chance for parole for being caught with under an ounce of grass. The cannabis laws in this country were so outdated & outlandish they HAD to be changed, or an entire generation was going ot be "warehoused" as soon as the massive prison complexes were built to house them.

Oh please. Plenty of baby boomers weren't stupid enough to be caught with pot or other drugs. Outdated laws or not, the solution is and always has been simple: don't do stuff that you know can land you in jail for 10-15 years. It's easier to lobby for changes to a stupid law if you're not sitting in jail, too.

It's been largely forgotten nowadays thanks to the magnificent efforts of certain sections of said baby boomer generation, but it actually wasn't that long ago when "kids" (read: 18 to 25 year olds) were actually expected to take responsibility for their actions.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Asojima 2,874]

Oh please. Plenty of baby boomers weren't stupid enough to be caught with pot or other drugs. Outdated laws or not, the solution is and always has been simple: don't do stuff that you know can land you in jail for 10-15 years. It's easier to lobby for changes to a stupid law if you're not sitting in jail, too.

It's been largely forgotten nowadays thanks to the magnificent efforts of certain sections of said baby boomer generation, but it actually wasn't that long ago when "kids" (read: 18 to 25 year olds) were actually expected to take responsibility for their actions.

And these enlightened babyboomers are the same people who in this day are fighting to ban the smoking of cigarettes in both public and private places, ban the consumption of alcohol in public parks and beaches and ostracize anyone who dares to express an incorrect thought.

[Jakusotsu 6,050]

Perhaps the most interesting point in all of the above is the glaring lack of 'I've smoked' and no big deal. If no biggie, JAB and co - what do you have to be afraid of in admitting it?

Of course I have, and still do. As you said, no big deal, and entirely beside the point. Just like the question whether you've never been drunk.

[kotoeikoku 0]

just to add to the very sensible comments from Orion (above) - and Hashira (is that 'hash' coincidental BTW?) - the victions of drug related crime have opinions and experience too.

I have been a victim of drug related crime. Does that experience not count as I myself have never smked a joint - or a cigarette?

Perhaps the most interesting point in all of the above is the glaring lack of 'I've smoked' and no big deal. If no biggie, JAB and co - what do you have to be afraid of in admitting it?

I smoked regularly as a teenager and it honestly was no big deal. A couple of my friends took a bit badly to it, but they gave up and now are fine. Alcohol has certainly affected people in my circle more.

In response to your earlier post about the 80's, using the same logic I could say 'doesn't the fact that almost everyone I know has smoked cannabis, many regularly, and none have ever committed a serious crime count for anything?' The answer is no, it doesn't, just like your assertions don't. We should be carefully about over-generalizing from our personal experiences.

Personally, I think cannabis should be legalized, and that criminal law in both Britain and Japan has its priorities wrong. But I also agree that Wakanoho must take responsibility. I lived in japan for two years and was fully aware of the serious consequences of drug use. Irrespective of what we think of the law, Wakanoho should have known better.

On a slight deviation, I wonder how widespread drug use is in Japan, given their harsh laws? I have been told that pills of various kinds are popular, due to them being easier to hide etc., and have asked my Japanese friends about drug use. Far less of them have used cannabis than my British ones, but amongst friends who dropped out of school, work in the service industry etc. quite a few had. Just wondering whether the law actually acts as much of a deterrent. Of course, it is probably impossible to estimate the actual level of illicit drug use...

[Mark Buckton 1]

In response to your earlier post about the 80's, using the same logic I could say 'doesn't the fact that almost everyone I know has smoked cannabis, many regularly, and none have ever committed a serious crime count for anything?'

good, well balanced answer and honest on the point, but 'serious' is an issue the victims should determine I think - not those committing (not meaning yourself) or those connected to those committing.

I have had things stolen by dopeheads (93/94), 2 times random street attack aged about 14, cut across the face by a doped up guy with a stanley at a football game in Liverpool in around 87/88. Once in Australia (96), had a jeep crashed into from the side, and a friend in the passenger seat would have lost a leg had it not been under her arse (if that makes sense - sitting on it) - passenger side door had a massive hole in it with his bumper sticking through into the leg space.

Actually, JAB - where were you in the years mentioned?

[hidenohana 0]

In response to your earlier post about the 80's, using the same logic I could say 'doesn't the fact that almost everyone I know has smoked cannabis, many regularly, and none have ever committed a serious crime count for anything?'

good, well balanced answer and honest on the point, but 'serious' is an issue the victims should determine I think - not those committing (not meaning yourself) or those connected to those committing.

I have had things stolen by dopeheads (93/94), 2 times random street attack aged about 14, cut across the face by a doped up guy with a stanley at a football game in Liverpool in around 87/88. Once in Australia (96), had a jeep crashed into from the side, and a friend in the passenger seat would have lost a leg had it not been under her arse (if that makes sense - sitting on it) - passenger side door had a massive hole in it with his bumper sticking through into the leg space.

Actually, JAB - where were you in the years mentioned?

I don't get it.How did you know the guy with the knife was 'doped up' in your own words,rather than on say heroin?

Also,nobody said that it's advisable to drive a car while on cannabis(though I have heard that it makes one overcautious),or any number of drugs or medication-or that matter on alcohol.

Finally isn't cannabis supposed to lower aggression.I've taken cannabis once in my life and it induced in me-and for everybody I have seen under its influence- a intensely mellow state.Alcohol however increases my aggression and makes me lose my self-control.Once when I drunk, I even headbutted a stranger in a club.(What could I do ??? He was looking at me in a funny way! :-| ).

So I'm sorry.I realise that there a great many ethical and social problems about illegal drug use.But the picture of cannabis that you portray here doesn't ring true to my personal experience.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6484653.stm

Edited August 20, 2008 by hidenohana

[Fujisan 533]

I don't get it.How did you know the guy with the knife was 'doped up' in your own words,rather than on say heroin?

Also,nobody said that it's advisable to drive a car while on cannabis(though I have heard that it makes one overcautious),or any number of drugs or medication-or that matter on alcohol.

Finally isn't cannabis supposed to lower aggression.I've taken cannabis once in my life and it induced in me-and for everybody I have seen under its influence- a intensely mellow state.Alcohol however increases my aggression and makes me lose my self-control.Once when I drunk, I even headbutted a stranger in a club.(What could I do ??? He was looking at me in a funny way! (Blowing up furiously...) ).

Having met you Arka I find that hard to believe...

That said when I was drinking I hit anyone,anywhere....Strangers,friends and family.

I was a *******,thats why I quit.

I quit cannabis because it was unhealthy and messed with my head.

[ryafuji 815]

There is no link whatsoever between cannabis and crime.

That's probably the funniest (and most unintentionally ironic) statement I've seen in a while, seeing as how it's illegal pretty much everywhere.

I've already explained I meant violent crime, which was obvious from the post I was responding to. But if it amuses you that much... (Blowing up furiously...)

[JAB 0]

Mark

I have smoked it. I do not make a habit of it. Make you happy?

Seriously you guys are either hanging out with idiots, or mixing up your drugs. Potheads are not the way most are portraying them here.

Edited August 20, 2008 by JAB

[Mark Buckton 1]

Well Mark if you want to be a wise ass about it..... I was busy doing your mom, so I could not have stolen anything from you (Blowing up furiously...)

Seriously you guys are either hanging out with idiots, or mixing up your drugs. Potheads are not the way most are portraying them here.

JAB - you should have been a politician - you STILL don't answer clearly. If pot is no big deal why the shame in answering?

hide - half of me says that you should be cut some slack for growing up near / in Grimsby (the 'Grim part of a song some years ago) but seriously beofre Fuji jumps on me for picking on his buddy, if you asked about how I know the guy was on pot when he cut me - the police told me. Was in the station long enough - both peole - only I was in the 'lounge' while the pothead was in the ....cell I guess, never saw him again.

Back on Wakanoho though, 4 bods raised this yeaterday. I asked all their opinions of dope - all see it as a serious offence - not because of the power of the dop - because the law is such and it is illegal.