hidenohana 0 Posted August 25, 2008 I don't understand.Why did Wakanahou confess immediately?Couldn't he have kept quiet? After all he could have explained away the cannabis in his wallet by saying someone may have placed it there ,in the time it was out of his possession.What sort of legal advice was he receiving? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,109 Posted August 25, 2008 I don't understand.Why did Wakanahou confess immediately?Couldn't he have kept quiet? After all he could have explained away the cannabis in his wallet by saying someone may have placed it there ,in the time it was out of his possession.What sort of legal advice was he receiving? Of course, the "same guy" placed his "peace pipes" both at his home and in his room at the heya, right? You think everyone is stupid, or just the Japanese police? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted August 25, 2008 I don't understand.Why did Wakanahou confess immediately?Couldn't he have kept quiet? After all he could have explained away the cannabis in his wallet by saying someone may have placed it there ,in the time it was out of his possession.What sort of legal advice was he receiving? Maybe he had enough integrity to admit that he screwed up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hidenohana 0 Posted August 25, 2008 I don't understand.Why did Wakanahou confess immediately?Couldn't he have kept quiet? After all he could have explained away the cannabis in his wallet by saying someone may have placed it there ,in the time it was out of his possession.What sort of legal advice was he receiving? Of course, the "same guy" placed his "peace pipes" both at his home and in his room at the heya, right? You think everyone is stupid, or just the Japanese police? Is this all official or have the press been reporting off the record briefings.Some of it I find barely credible... For instance,how could Wakanahou have been partaking of cannabis in the more or less communal space of the heya-given what we know of the general intolerance of drugs in Japan? How could he have been so stupid and indiscreet,even giving allowances for age and immaturity? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,319 Posted August 25, 2008 What should the Kyokai have done? Clearly the humane solution would have been to allow him to telecommute to the Kokugikan in the future... (There, I hope that manages to out-absurd the rest of the thread. I'm starting to wonder if this thread is doomed to rehash the same issue over and over again because people apparently can't be bothered to read the first [current page count] minus 1 pages...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,109 Posted August 25, 2008 Is this all official or have the press been reporting off the record briefings.Some of it I find barely credible...For instance,how could Wakanahou have been partaking of cannabis in the more or less communal space of the heya-given what we know of the general intolerance of drugs in Japan? How could he have been so stupid and indiscreet,even giving allowances for age and immaturity? Because he has his own room at the heya and that is private enough, especially with no Oyakata in site.. And your last sentence is the only one that is close to the truth. He was stupid and indiscreet. He walked around town with a reefer. In Japan. You don't get more stupid and indiscreet than that. Oh yes, you do. You manage to drop the reefer in a public place.. As for official, the fact that they found what they found where they found it seems to be pretty official. Sorry it doesn't fit with your idea of how things happened or should be done, but thems the facts, probably.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dante 0 Posted August 26, 2008 The difference with Wakanoho vs. any/all other rikishi who may have had trouble "with" the law is that none of the others was caught in a drug incident. For Japan any drug is a DRUG, not hard, soft, semi drug or whatever. In this case Japan considers marijuana a drug. It is a much more serious offense than say beating up a journalist according to the law. I see the point and it only adds to the statement I made that the two subjects can and should not be discussed seperately in my opinion. It is a law that is without any real ground or reason behind it (as far as I'm concerned) because of the fact that you cannot lump all drugs tgether on one big pile, call them wrong and legally sell two of the most harmful and least benificial drugs (alcohol and nicotine) at the same time. As I see it: Rikishi uses marihuana, rikishi gets arrested, rikishi gets deported, rikishi gets fired. All the same subject. As I said before I do not mean any dis :-) so I won't bore you people with it any further. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,319 Posted August 26, 2008 As I see it:Rikishi uses marihuana, rikishi gets arrested, rikishi gets deported, rikishi gets fired. All the same subject. But you still weren't discussing that subject, as can helpfully be illustrated like this: I see the point and it only adds to the statement I made that the two subjects can and should not be discussed seperately in my opinion. It is a law that is without any real ground or reason behind it (as far as I'm concerned) because of the fact that you cannot lump all drugs tgether on one big pile, call them wrong and legally sell two of the most harmful and least benificial drugs (alcohol and nicotine) at the same time. As I see it: Rikishi uses marihuana, rikishi gets arrested, rikishi gets deported, rikishi gets fired. Quick, which word didn't make a single appearance in your first paragraph? But anyway...the other thread awaits your comments. :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiyozakura 148 Posted August 26, 2008 I see the point and it only adds to the statement I made that the two subjects can and should not be discussed seperately in my opinion. It is a law that is without any real ground or reason behind it (as far as I'm concerned) because of the fact that you cannot lump all drugs tgether on one big pile, call them wrong and legally sell two of the most harmful and least benificial drugs (alcohol and nicotine) at the same time. The difference is the "rank" of the crime. If you are allowed to drive 30mph and drive 35 you break the law, but it is no big deal. Drugs are in Japan obviously a very big deal, that's why Wakanoho is arrested and will get a hard punishment from the Japanese state. Even if the Sumo Kyokai would think this is no big deal, there is no way Wakanoho could continue his career. In addition to that some heads within the NSK would roll as they are a body of the Japanese government and not just one sports organization. Thus there is no alternative for the NSK on how to handle the situation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dante 0 Posted August 26, 2008 Quick, which word didn't make a single appearance in your first paragraph? But anyway...the other thread awaits your comments. :-) That's just nitpicking. But I see that real arguments fall on deaf ears now. I will no longer be apart of this discussion indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,109 Posted August 26, 2008 Wakanohou has testified that he paid 20,000 yen for two packs of hash and smoking utensils to a "black man in Roppongi". One bag apparently went to his house, and the other to his room in Magaki beya. "I smoked a couple of times at home and at the heya, and I was alone in all cases..", he said. It was also established that Hakurozan was questioned about this as well. He admitted to visiting Wakanohou at his home, but it was not related to the drug incident, it has been understood. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Buckton 1 Posted August 26, 2008 didn't he get the stuff from a Russian first? Now a black man? A black Russian? Isn't that a drink? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,109 Posted August 26, 2008 (edited) didn't he get the stuff from a Russian first? Now a black man? A black Russian? Isn't that a drink? The original testimony said a Russian gave him a hash- filled cigarette. Now it has been added that a "black man" sold some stuff to him. Initial reports did have a "black man AND a Russian", if you check back a bit.. As for the joke, it has been hashed (pardon the pun) at the beginning of this thread.. Edited August 26, 2008 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obinishiki 0 Posted August 26, 2008 If you think any Japanese lawyer is going to advise their client to lie or deny you sure don't know much about Japanese lawyers. That sounds very odd. Could you elaborate on that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Buckton 1 Posted August 26, 2008 I won't presume on what Nishi has to say here but I think I can say that most with dry ink in the passport will know that many lawyers tell you to apologise, take the rap, appear remorseful - and you WILL get a lighter penalty. Whether you did it or not is a different matter. At least that is what a former lawyer / current friend told me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonosuke 28 Posted August 26, 2008 (edited) As I see it:Rikishi uses marihuana, rikishi gets arrested, rikishi gets deported, rikishi gets fired. All the same subject. Actually if you stuck with this thought, then I wouldn't have asked you to take your post to the "Drugs and Laws" thread. Initially you made a point that marijuana was more or less soft drug, a plant and used as a medication. There you were comparing the drugs then the post is more appropriate for the other thread. You were making a value judgment on a variety of drugs which is irrelevant to the fact that he got arrested. Wakanoho was arrested breaching a law of the land. He knew it was illegal, regardless of how hard the drug was. Incidentally a lot of so called hard drugs are made from plants like opium and mescaline. We know such "hard" drugs like morphine is used for medicinal purpose for terminal cancer patients. So the argument that marijuana is used medicinally won't fly. As for the effects and possible physical consequences of using one drug or another one time or another, I happen to know more than a few people who used LSD or steroids 20 or so years ago and they are still fine. Personally I feel there is nothing wrong with having a trip with LSD under a medical supervision - I figure it could expand some people's horizon. After all it was discovered by a respected Swiss biochemist working for one of the major pharmaceutical companies in the world and was advocated by a well known Harvard professor as well as a Nobel Literature caliber author. I wonder what you'd be saying if Wakanoho happened to "receive" LSD or cocaine from a Russian in Roppongi. Since he bought a marijuana fully knowing it is illegal and bought it to "feel good", would he stop buying LSD or cocaine? Then what you will be saying then? As you can see to respond to you I made points in the last several paragraphs that had mostly nothing to do with Wakanoho. This is the reason I asked you to talk about all this in the other thread. I wasn't trying to stop you from expressing your view, just asking you to do it in more appropriate place as Wakanoho never stated he smoked the joints because he figured it was better than shooting heroin. Edited August 26, 2008 by Jonosuke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dante 0 Posted August 26, 2008 We can go on like ths all day. We might need a different topic then though ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sasanishiki 57 Posted August 27, 2008 I won't presume on what Nishi has to say here but I think I can say that most with dry ink in the passport will know that many lawyers tell you to apologise, take the rap, appear remorseful - and you WILL get a lighter penalty. Whether you did it or not is a different matter.At least that is what a former lawyer / current friend told me. Incidentally, only a couple of weeks before this incident I watched the Japanese film "Soredemo boku wa yattenai" (2006; "I just didn't do it" in English) by Suo Masayuki. It follows the plight of a man mistakenly accused of groping a high school girl on a train. Although fictional it gives a very good account of how the Japanese judicial system works (or so I believe) and would be informative for many here if they get a chance to see it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hananotaka 8 Posted August 27, 2008 Incidentally, only a couple of weeks before this incident I watched the Japanese film "Soredemo boku wa yattenai" (2006; "I just didn't do it" in English) by Suo Masayuki. It follows the plight of a man mistakenly accused of groping a high school girl on a train. Although fictional it gives a very good account of how the Japanese judicial system works (or so I believe) and would be informative for many here if they get a chance to see it. For a real trip, do a Masayuki Suo marathon. Watch "Shiko Funjatta", "Shall We Dance?" and "Sore de mo Boku wa Yattenai". You're like, "Ah, quirky, funny Japan! Oh, delightful and heartwarming Japan! ... ... Uh, okay, I want to leave the country now." Suo based "Sore de mo..." off a couple books. One was by a man who was in a similar situation -- mistakenly charged with groping a girl on a train -- and his long fight in the legal system. The other, IIRC, was by a cop that criticized various aspects of the legal system. Because Suo wished to critique the system, he meticulously researched the subject so that he could provide maximum accuracy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James H 0 Posted August 29, 2008 That article Nish linked to mentions the Toki incident some years back. He was suspended for one basho after being "convicted" of vehicular manslaughter/dangerous driving causing death. IIRC the law provided a penalty of up to seven years in jail, or a one million yen fine for that. Are these incidents in any way comparable? Just to follow up and try to clarify what happened, based on a database search of Yomiuri Shimbun articles. As Otokonoyama wrote and is widely known, Toki hit and killed a woman while driving in December 2000. The legal technicalities around it are a bit obtuse (what, in Japan?) but it goes something like this: Toki was driving and hit a woman who had ignored a red light and was crossing the street. She died. He was indicted in summary court for professional negligence resulting in death. Papers were sent to prosecutors on him, but he personally wasn't. This, apparently, is a big difference. (Wakanoho was physically sent to prosecutors to be indicted on his charges.) He didn't contest the indictment in the summary court, and was fined 200,000 yen. The reasons for the leniency of the punishment were that he was sober, not speeding and, under Japanese law, only partially to blame for the accident. Drivers are normally apportioned all blame at the start of an investigation into an accident involving pedestrians or cyclists, and then the police reduce the amount of blame based on the other party's behavior. Obviously, in this case, the pedestrian running a red light was enough to cut Toki some slack with prosecutors and police. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otokonoyama 2,735 Posted August 31, 2008 Thanks for all your efforts looking back into that, James! In other news, more foreigners behaving badly... http://mdn.mainichi.jp/national/news/20080...0na003000c.html Japan Rugby Football Union (JRFU) executives held an emergency meeting Friday after it emerged that police had obtained an arrest warrant for an Australian rugby player with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries' Sagamihara team on suspicion of illegal drug use.Police obtained the arrest warrant for 31-year-old player Simon Kasprowicz, who belongs to the Sagamihara Dynaboars. However, details of the case have yet to be made clear, and officials have put off announcing any punishments for him. Speaking on the possibility of future punishment, JRFU executive director Noboru Mashimo said, "We will wait for a detailed report and response from the team, and discuss the issue again." The Top East 11 league to which Sagamihara belongs kicks off on Sept. 6, and the team's first match is scheduled for Sept. 7. If punishment is issued for the whole team, not just the individual player, then the outcome of league games could be greatly affected. Only last year, two players with top rugby club Kanto Gakuin University were arrested on suspicion of violating the Cannabis Control Law, and the latest suspicions have brought down the image of rugby just before the start of the season. "The continuation of drug incidents is extremely regrettable," a Kanto region rugby official said. "I want teams to also properly investigate the actions of their foreign players." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,109 Posted September 3, 2008 Wakanohou has admitted to smoking pot in Russia before he came to Japan. He added that this was the first time he smoked it in Japan. He is slated to be questioned by the police again about the Brothers after they have been tested positive as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sasanishiki 57 Posted September 4, 2008 Does anyone else think it is a little suspect that Wakanoho had all that smoking paraphenalia if this was the first time he had smoked pot in Japan? That soulnds like window dressing to me. "I'm a gaijin who brought my strange foreign ways to Japan and I was able to source the stuff from another, equally strange and dangerous, gaijin" which somehow is to affirm to Japanese that pot smoking is both bad (I'm not saying it's not) and foreign. I bet he bought his bongs from a Japanese guy!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peeter 15 Posted September 4, 2008 What's henka? A hallucination, that opponent is a little aside of him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randomitsuki 2,826 Posted September 4, 2008 I have moved the most recent drug talk to this Off-topic thread, even if some of the affected posts made passing references to Wakanoho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites