Boy did they screw Asashoryu today

[HenryK 38]

The slow-motion shows that Tochinonada clearly touched the ground first with his elbow. Great fight by the Maegeshira, but it should have been an uwatenage for the Yokozuna.

[Tony 16]

I suppose they considered that Asashoryu was in position of shinitai, already out of the dohyo and couldn't turn the tide.

It's harsh for the yokozuna!

Edited July 17, 2008 by Tony

[sekihiryu 50]

worthy of rematch, but in the end they gave it the aggressor as they frequently do. Such is life, nothing to see here move along, move along.

[kaiguma 0]

worthy of rematch, but in the end they gave it the aggressor as they frequently do. Such is life, nothing to see here move along, move along.

Subtle difference between your explanation and Tony's, but I don't think he was actually shini-tai. Tochiozan's "touchdown" victory yesterday was a much better example (Shaking head...)

So yeah, I think they went with the aggressor at the edge, but I really think a tori-naoshi was in order. Can anyone translate for us what Takanohana Oyakata said before "gunbai dori" ?

[Kobayashi 0]

The same screwing happened to Baruto :-S at shonichi. Clearly Miya's hand touched already the dohyo while Bart was still hanging above it. (Shaking head...)

[kaiguma 0]

The same screwing happened to Baruto (Bart...) at shonichi. Clearly Miya's hand touched already the dohyo while Bart was still hanging above it. (Shaking head...)

Bart's right hand was also coming down at the exact same instant, and his entire body was outside of the dohyo, not hovering over it... likely considered shini-tai.

That one also could be considered a tori-naoshi candidate, but I don't think it was a mistake to leave it.

[Takemi 0]

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zok45Euaw4

[ilovesumo 12]

Can anyone translate for us what Takanohana Oyakata said before "gunbai dori" ?

"I will explain what we spoke about in the monoii. The Gyoji gave it to Tochinonada,he pushed (was aggressor)... to confirm it again...gunbai dori, Tochinonada won."

Something like that

[Mark Buckton 0]

there is also the beleif that Asa shouldn't have been in that position in the first place - having to rely on the mono-ii and the pointing of a gumbai.

mark

[Mark Buckton 0]

FWIW - and looked at his career posts - he has never lost 2 in the first week as a yokozuna and gone on to win the yusho.

Not happened often but when he does, more often than not pulls out IIRC.

[Sasanishiki 57]

FWIW - and looked at his career posts - he has never lost 2 in the first week as a yokozuna and gone on to win the yusho.

Not happened often but when he does, more often than not pulls out IIRC.

Not quite fair but I realise it is off the top of your head.

In March 2003, his first basho as yokozuna, he lost on days 3 & 7 and ended with 10-5. In July of that year he lost on days 2 & 5 and pulled out a little later. His record was 5-5-5. In September 2004 he lost on days 4 & 5 and then lost his last four to go 9-6 (when famously underconditioned from neglecting keiko). In May 2006 he lost on day 2 and gave up a fusenpai on day 3, having been injured the day before (?), resulting in a 1-2-12 record. In March 2007 he lost the first two days and then went on a 13 day winning streak. He lost to Hakuho in the kettei-sen.

So, I make that three basho where he perserved and got kachi-koshi of varying degrees. Another time he was forced to pull out due to injury as his record was 1-1 at the time, and only once has he pulled out with a poor record after having lost twice in the first week. Those two basho remain the only ones during his entire career where he has withdrawn at any point during the basho.

[Rokko Jeff 0]

Totally agree with Mr. Buckton--Asa was on the defense the entire time, against a has-been, a pleasant has-been but come on!

And BTW, I will have to figure out how to alter my moniker now--back in Kobe, "The Japan" after a 6-year exile in my homeland!

[Zuikakuyama 1]

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zok45Euaw4

Thanks for posting up this link. I am always on the lookout for these basho replays. Too bad the Toyasuko postings lasted so short.

[Mark Buckton 0]

Totally agree with Mr. Buckton--

(Eek...) :'-( Sir, you've made my day. (In a state of confusion...)

But be careful, you'll be on Fay's, ilovesumo's and the Doitsuyama hit list now. (Neener, neener...) (Shaking head...)

Relax ladies - love you really. (Gathering...)

[Rokko Jeff 0]

Really!? Surely, they'll take it easy on a relative newcomer? Right? Spook, key, key, key.

No seriously, I've been a huge Asa fan since 3/01, my first live basho. Cheered for him for 6 years in America, but the supremacy sure seems over. I feel it goes beyond finally having a rival (singular, sorry Koto). Seems mental--needs to be less thin skinned and a bit more zen. Perhaps nursing too many grudges against the Kyokai and what have you. And the behavior in May vs. Hakuho was simply undignified, something I chose not to see for far too long. Kinboshi, meanwhile, are not acceptable.

Anything can happen, but my once upon a time confidence in his ability to make a run at the biggest record of all has just about collapsed.

Isn't there something about champions and adversity, judging them when times get tough. Hard to feel too generous if one were forced to make that judgment today. Mind you I hope he proves me wrong.

[Fay 1,675]

Really!? Surely, they'll take it easy on a relative newcomer? Right? Spook, key, key, key.

No problem Oregon JC, you're safe (Shaking head...) you can agree with whoever you like, even with Mr. Blair.

[Jejima 617]

In July of that year he lost on days 2 & 5 and pulled out a little later. His record was 5-5-5....

<snip>

.....only once has he pulled out with a poor record after having lost twice in the first week.

From memory, I think there was something more about his 5-5-5 basho. Wasn't this one of the times when he and Kyokushuzan had a mini fracas? If I am correct, then this may have contributed a little to his decision to withdraw from that basho.

[kaiguma 0]

Really!? Surely, they'll take it easy on a relative newcomer? Right? Spook, key, key, key.

No problem Oregon JC, you're safe ;-) you can agree with whoever you like, even with Mr. Blair.

There are substantial differences between saying:

"I like to eat rotten tomatoes. They are very tasty."

"I like to eat rotten tomatoes and so should you."

"I like rotten tomatoes, you should too, it's illogical not to." and then throwing them in everyone's face.

(Neener, neener...)

;-)

Edited July 18, 2008 by kaiguma

[ilovesumo 12]

Totally agree with Mr. Buckton--

(Eek...) :'-( Sir, you've made my day. (Neener, neener...)

But be careful, you'll be on Fay's, ilovesumo's and the Doitsuyama hit list now. ;-) ;-)

Relax ladies - love you really. (Gathering...)

Then don't say that. You should know that I am fair. I have no list.

This is no stupid war here. Thought we are all adult. B-)

Edited July 18, 2008 by ilovesumo

[Mark Buckton 0]

Really!? Surely, they'll take it easy on a relative newcomer? Right? Spook, key, key, key.

No problem Oregon JC, you're safe ;-) you can agree with whoever you like, even with Mr. Blair.

Fay, Eric's article really hit a nerve didn't it? (Neener, neener...) A writer once said (something like), 'if you see yourself in a piece of text, then you either think too much of yourself, or the article is true' ;-)

[Sasanishiki 57]

Moderator Notice

MB and Fay, please cease your petty to-ing and fro-ing about the SFM article. There has been a thread in which the opposition of many to that article has been discussed. Feel free to disagree about any sumo matter (or other) but do not continue sniping at one another about one issue.

Back to your respective corners

Edited July 21, 2008 by Sasanishiki

[ryafuji 557]

So, Day 5, Tochinonada puts out Asashoryu by yori-taoshi. He is the aggressor, but he puts his arm down first. The gyoji awards the win to Tochinonada, and the judges uphold his decision.

Day 7, Tokitenku puts out Baruto by yori-taoshi. He is the aggressor, but he puts his arm down first. The gyoji awards the win to Tokitenku, but the judges overrule his decision and say Tokitenku touched down first.

Where's the consistency there? (Pulling hair...) I think Asashoryu was hard done by.

[Randomitsuki 2,069]

So, Day 5, Tochinonada puts out Asashoryu by yori-taoshi. He is the aggressor, but he puts his arm down first. The gyoji awards the win to Tochinonada, and the judges uphold his decision.

Day 7, Tokitenku puts out Baruto by yori-taoshi. He is the aggressor, but he puts his arm down first. The gyoji awards the win to Tokitenku, but the judges overrule his decision and say Tokitenku touched down first.

Where's the consistency there? (Pulling hair...) I think Asashoryu was hard done by.

I wouldn't agree that Tokitenku was the (sole) aggressor. At the tawara Baruto executes the crucial kotenage that makes Tokitenku lose his balance in the first place. In contrast, when Asashoryu attempted kotehineri(???) at Tochinonada, the Maegashira plunged at the Yokozuna. In that very moment, Asashoryu was in full defense mode, so I'd say that Nada was the sole attacker. Of course, such things are always open to interpretation.

[Asashosakari 14,448]

I wouldn't agree that Tokitenku was the (sole) aggressor. At the tawara Baruto executes the crucial kotenage that makes Tokitenku lose his balance in the first place.

I agree; my immediate reaction while watching the bout was "wow, nice last-ditch move by Baruto", not "hey, how the heck did Tokitenku manage to touch down first there?" I was totally flabbergasted that the gyoji gave the bout to Tokitenku to begin with (and I was on board with the decision in Asashoryu-Tochinonada).

Edited July 19, 2008 by Asashosakari

[HenryK 38]

I wouldn't agree that Tokitenku was the (sole) aggressor. At the tawara Baruto executes the crucial kotenage that makes Tokitenku lose his balance in the first place.

I agree; my immediate reaction while watching the bout was "wow, nice last-ditch move by Baruto", not "hey, how the heck did Tokitenku manage to touch down first there?" I was totally flabbergasted that the gyoji gave the bout to Tokitenku to begin with (and I was on board with the decision in Asashoryu-Tochinonada).

How can one be "on board" with an objectively wrong decision? Or do you mean your first impression? I agree that without slow motion, this one was easier to catch than Asa's wrongly denied victory.