Shomishuu 0 Posted May 25, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roEllDCXU24 (Laughing...) :-P Hakuho (Sign of disapproval...) . Obviously, Asashoryu looks suprised and even smiled I think he was smiling because the physical nature (bumping Asa while getting up) of Hakuho's response to his shove probably saved him from more retribution than would otherwise come his way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryK 38 Posted May 25, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roEllDCXU24 (Laughing...) :-P Hakuho (Sign of disapproval...) . Obviously, Asashoryu looks suprised and even smiled I think he was smiling because the physical nature (bumping Asa while getting up) of Hakuho's response to his shove probably saved him from more retribution than would otherwise come his way. My five cents: no this wasn't nice. Asashoryu was probably too pumped up to let go immediately; Hakuho responded with a temper, like "dare you to push me around as if I was a Komosubi". And while I kind of enjoyed that Hakuho stood up to the bully and can understand where both were coming from, this is ozumo and not boxing. The YDC should censor both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,419 Posted May 25, 2008 A total non-issue. I beg to differ. BIG issue, at least in the eyes of the powers that be in the Kyokai and the general YDC area. This will be hashed ad nauseum in the coming days, and it has already started in the press. Now henka, THAT is a non-issue.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonosuke 28 Posted May 25, 2008 You will see a lot more extra-curriicular activity in matches during the Showa era. Back then, they didn't even bother to put their hands on the dohyo at tachiai Well I've seen quite a few riksihi didn't bother to put their hands down this basho...I guess things haven't changed that much after all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,419 Posted May 25, 2008 (edited) Houchi Yomiuri have lately become the keepers of the Holy Grail. This is their take. The two Yokozuna contaminated the sacred dohyo with their actions in the MIB match today. After Asa won the match, while Hakuhou was still down, he pushed him with both hands and both knees. Hakuhou got up and retaliated by poking him in the stomach. Asa answered that by hitting Hakuhou on the face with his right hand. Both Yokozuna were standing in the middle of the dohyo, shaking with anger and staring each other down. The fans who were excited over Kotooushuu's yusho suddenly became quiet and the whole atmosphere was ruined. No respect for the full house, no remorse in the shitakubeya. "I got a bit scared.. I was afraid he was going to hit me. I've been around and I still do tend to lose my cool, but my opponent is young...", said Asashouryuu. "He started it ...", said Hakuhou (I kid you not...). Section 8 of the rule book says: "Once you're on the dohyo, you abide by what the gyoji says. After the bout is over, the opponents stand up and bow, the winner assumes the winner's position and the loser leaves the dohyo". Win or lose, fair play is respected and expected till the end. That is sumodo. This type of fray (Hey Fujisan, you're in the paper!!) is out of the question. Mr. Ebisawa of the YDC who was there: "They're both Yokozuna so this is shameful.. Hakuhou may have been provoked, but the fact that he showed no composure is very worrying ". Kitanoumi Rijicho: "The fact that this whole thing heated up is funny (but not ha-ha funny) in itself. As Yokozuna, you just can't do that!!". Both ended with an 11-4 record, which is inappropriate for Yokozunae. Tomorrow, the question of their hinkaku will most certainly arise at the after-basho YDC meeting. The Houchi reporter is certainly trying to stir up some emotions.. Hakuhou falls: Asa slaps: Dirty looks: Edited May 25, 2008 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilovesumo 12 Posted May 25, 2008 "I got a bit scared.. I was afraid he was going to hit me. I've been around and I still do tend to lose my cool, but my opponent is young...", said Asashouryuu. " I am so thankful Hakuho did not... but in that second I had the same fear...just thought "NOW it happens" Scary scary scene... The bad press will love that thing... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hidenohana 0 Posted May 25, 2008 (edited) Asashoryu's hand went reflexively to Hakuho's face in response to Hakuho's shoulder charge. But after seeing the replay again I have to say this....come on that wasn't a slap! More like, he was cupping Hakuho's face. I think Asashoryu was instinctively trying to restrain Hakuho. Edited May 25, 2008 by hidenohana Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,419 Posted May 25, 2008 Asashoryu's hand went reflexively to Hakuho's face in response to Hakuho's shoulder charge.But after seeing the replay again I have to say this....come on that wasn't a slap! More like, he was cupping Hakuho's face. I dunno.. It says so in the paper, so it must be true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
That-Satsu-Guy 1 Posted May 25, 2008 I didn't think of that as a "slap," it seemed incidental. The real "problem" for Shoryu is that dame-oshi, but I think he didn't expect Hakuho to go down so easy, and was just following through. For me, and many others, the real "problem" was Hakuho's reaction. I mean, come on, it's a contact sport people are gonna make contact with you. Get over it. Hakuho's a yokozuna he should be above this. If Shoryu dame-oshi'd him, the dohyo is not the place to "work it out." I've seen a lot of dame-oshi this basho, (Kitazakura and Matsukasa come to mind...) but no body tried to start a street fight on the dohyo over it. They won't suspend anyone over this, not with Wakanoho and Toyozakura running around as free men. It's all about the stitches, man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilovesumo 12 Posted May 25, 2008 Kinta, thanks for the translation (I am not worthy...) - and for your great irony. I dunno.. It says so in the paper, so it must be true. (Laughing...) good one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonosuke 28 Posted May 25, 2008 (edited) Irrespective of who should be blamed for this, Asashoryu gets his share because he has prior records of this sort of thing even though we all think Hakuho was the real instigator. When Asahoryu was taking the kensho envelopes, he was more his normal self, even smiling to the dohyo judge Takanohana as if to say that the guy shouldn't get really upset over something trivial like that and then end up losing his temper. I guess in a way it was rather a fitting tribute to these two yokozuna this basho considering their rather pitiful performance in the last stage, injury or not. Edited May 25, 2008 by Jonosuke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
That-Satsu-Guy 1 Posted May 25, 2008 I guess in a way it was rather a fitting tribute to these two yokozuna this basho considering their rather pitiful performance in the last stage, injury or not. 賛成 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mokele 3 Posted May 26, 2008 It's the same old story with a great athlete that's been so admired and revered by sumo fans and even by peers that defer to him, letting him get away with unruliness, disrespect, etc. Asashoryu has been giving the extra shove, the extra slap to the back, a tap on the knee, a swipe across the back, and other questionable acts after winning bouts, for several years. The Kyokai didn't crack down on him while he was on the rise or in his early years as a yokozuna, and now this behavior is a habit by Asashoryu. He's not even thinking about it anymore. It's an automatic response. When he thinks about it he's more gracious in victory, but all too often he's running on "automatic pilot" which for him means the extra little act of aggression right after he wins a bout. In American football it's a bit like doing a little dance after scoring a touchdown. I really don't think that he meant disrespect to Hakuho. To him, Hakuho is just another rikishi that he defeated, and he wanted to add a little bit of panache to his win with an extra gesture, which he probably thought was harmless. It's not harmless though when millions of fans are watching, and hoping that 1 of the all-time great rikishi shows dignity and hinkaku. I've been watching carefully how other rikishi behave right after they win, and most are quite gracious, good examples being Kakizoe, Ama, Tamanoshima and Takamisakari. Of course several others could be included to that list. Those men are always gracious and respectful, and make an obvious effort to protect the safety of their opponent once it's clear that they have won the bout. That's the right attitude. Takanohana 2 (brother of Wakanohana) had that quality, which is why sumo fans loved and respected him. Now we can appreciate him even more, and other great rikishi that not only had skill and power, but self control and respect for the sport and for their adversaries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peterao 3 Posted May 26, 2008 I doubt that anyone can rise to the rank of yokozuna without an uncommonly fierce competitive spirit. That said, I don't think that there was any malicious intent on the part of either yokozuna. There was simply some unfortunate inertia that led to some misunderstandings, and the Kyokai will ultimately see the issue as such as let both yokozuna off with a stern warning so that they can save face as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SalParadise 0 Posted May 26, 2008 At least Hakuho bowed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otokonoyama 2,735 Posted May 26, 2008 As Hakuho gets ready to sweep the leg, Shoryu gets set to use the crane technique. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Manekineko 200 Posted May 26, 2008 Posts about whether 11-4 is pitiful or not for yokozuna merged into the dedicated topic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,419 Posted May 26, 2008 (edited) Friendly banter: And now, the trailer: Edited May 26, 2008 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hidenohana 0 Posted May 26, 2008 (edited) Asa : The soft touch of young puppy fat against my hand....Ah...life is sweet!!! Hakuho : (sigh!) Oshu : There's a new voice in town,Asa!Me!!! How do you respond to allegations about your extraordinary behaviour in tomorrow's Hochi Yomiuri? Asa : What??!!A set-up,eh?Why I'll... Wait a sec.Is this on satellite broadcast? Asa : I don't know you,I've never met you in my life-in truth I don't even like your cheeks! They are coarse and rough and irritating. Not like this clay here which is soft and smooth!!! Hakuho : Ooh! Mongolian men!!!You're all alike! Random Old Woman : That's the sumo spirit! Edited May 26, 2008 by hidenohana Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hashira 0 Posted May 26, 2008 (edited) The YDC today `cautioned`both yokozuna, but the majority of blame was given to Hakuho. Uchidate was on TV saying that Asa`s extra shove was connected to the flow of the match, while Hakuho`s was an unreasonable reaction. this is an interesting comment from uchidate, as it could have clearly gone either way. At the very least, I would have given them equal blame, if not more to Asa, since he did start it. The match was already over when Asa started to move towards Hakuho. Even if he did not realize it was over at that point, he surely did before he put his hands on him, and the extra shove was unnecessary and certainly appeared to be an intimidation technique rather than a continuation of the match. Im sure Hakuho was not about to stand up and shove Asa before the dame-Oshi occurred Edited May 26, 2008 by Hashira Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paolo 0 Posted May 26, 2008 The YDC today `cautioned`both yokozuna, but the majority of blame was given to Hakuho. Uchidate was on TV saying that Asa`s extra shove was connected to the flow of the match, while Hakuho`s was an unreasonable reaction. this is an interesting comment from uchidate, as it could have clearly gone either way. At the very least, I would have given them equal blame, if not more to Asa, since he did start it. The match was already over when Asa started to move towards Hakuho. Even if he did not realize it was over at that point, he surely did before he put his hands on him, and the extra shove was unnecessary and certainly appeared to be an intimidation technique rather than a continuation of the match. Im sure Hakuho was not about to stand up and shove Asa before the dame-Oshi occurred As usual Ms. Uchidate surprises me (and many others, I think...). All the above is more or less true, but I would have severely scolded Asashoryu: even if his adrenaline was high as usual and the bout was over too early he should have stopped before the extrashove. Hakuho's reaction was understandable even if bad: who started the whole thing ? Would Asashoryu have been cautioned if Hakuho had not reacted ? Of course yes, so of course the one to blame the more was Asashoryu ! Luckily for him Hakuho reacted, so that Asashoryu had a chance to caress him ..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryK 38 Posted May 26, 2008 The YDC today `cautioned`both yokozuna, but the majority of blame was given to Hakuho. Uchidate was on TV saying that Asa`s extra shove was connected to the flow of the match, while Hakuho`s was an unreasonable reaction. this is an interesting comment from uchidate, as it could have clearly gone either way. At the very least, I would have given them equal blame, if not more to Asa, since he did start it. The match was already over when Asa started to move towards Hakuho. Even if he did not realize it was over at that point, he surely did before he put his hands on him, and the extra shove was unnecessary and certainly appeared to be an intimidation technique rather than a continuation of the match. Im sure Hakuho was not about to stand up and shove Asa before the dame-Oshi occurred I think the YDC got it right and also reacted quite appropriately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,419 Posted May 26, 2008 (edited) Ms. Uchidate was actually agreeing with Kitanoumi's angle. "He's been around, and if he says it was part of the flow, then it was part of the flow..", she said. Kitanoumi summoned Hakuhou's Oyakata and reprimanded him, but the YDC was not satisfied with that saying that the stare down that ensued was equally both side's fault. Even some Oyakatas said both parties should have been reprimanded. Later, Kitanoumi said "Let us reprimand both parties.." YDC Chairman Ebisawa who was at the Kkan when the incident happened, explained his point of view. "It was the most anticipated bout by the fans this basho, and for this shameful thing to happen is a problem. A distinction has to be made!!" Back at Miyagino beya, the Oyakata urged Hakuhou to reflect upon his actions. "As a Yokozuna I am expected to be an example for all rikishi, so I will be polishing my hinkaku . It was not good sumo, and the bad situation of my left foot made me a bit hot under the collar..", he explained. Edited May 26, 2008 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,419 Posted May 26, 2008 YDC meeting today-big table, no refreshments: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saburo 18 Posted May 26, 2008 At least Hakuho bowed. Touche. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites