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HenryK

Kotooshu

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After seeing the Asashoryu vs. Chiyotaikai bout I somehow knew that Kotooshu would pull that move. So after all, Kotooshu is Kotooshu.

No, it is not the henka as movement itself. It is just obvious that it is not a new Kotooshu, rather more a Kotooshu on a temporary momentum. Sorry, as much as I would like to believe the positive comments of the others in the thread, I don't see him going anywhere next basho. No uptick at all in the long term. Of course - my opinion.

Well even if he won't repeat this performance next time, it shows that on his day (or 15 days) Kotooshu can beat the Yokozuna and win yushos. Which makes Ozumo more interesting.

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and i don't think foreign fans are the only ones to not like henka. TV announcers, japanese fans, oyakata, many people seem to dislike it

Some Japanese fans may dislike it, but that's where it stops. It's not such a big deal. A lot of foreigner fans seem to equate it to cold blooded murder, at least.. "Hey, I want my money back!!" type of mentality.

Edited by Kintamayama

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I think most long time sumo fans accept henka as a part of the game and let it go grudgingly or not. It comes into the picture when everyone was looking forward to a particular bout between two strong rikishi, then they would voice a displeasure as they feel cheated. Especially if it comes in a yokozuna or ozeki bout, it is not likely to be welcomed.

Chiyotaikai can take such a desperate action but the fans understand by looking at his predicament. It was a smart move by Kotooshu today. He tried to stay away from Hakuho's strength, not letting get his left hand from grabbing the mawashi. But it still is an one-time move. Hakuho will remember the move the next time he faces Kotooshu. It really doesn't make Kotooshu elevate his sumo to Hakuho's level. It may have given him a win and more confidence but it really did not make him stronger against the yokozuna by winning with a trick move.

Kotooshu is facing Aminishiki tomorrow so he will be the one who needs to be concerned of trickery. Would that prospect make him not go against with using all his power tomorrow? If he does, then he will likely suffer his first loss this basho.

Edited by Jonosuke

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After seeing the Asashoryu vs. Chiyotaikai bout I somehow knew that Kotooshu would pull that move. So after all, Kotooshu is Kotooshu.

No, it is not the henka as movement itself. It is just obvious that it is not a new Kotooshu, rather more a Kotooshu on a temporary momentum. Sorry, as much as I would like to believe the positive comments of the others in the thread, I don't see him going anywhere next basho. No uptick at all in the long term. Of course - my opinion.

I think it's OK to do a henka when you are in a "mentally desperate" situation (Hakuho did it too when he was desperate for yusho).

A good lesson and own medicine for Hakuho.

I agree it shouldn't be your constant companion though except for smaller rikishis like Ama,Takekaze... who else. Smaller rikishis do it to compensate their physical disadvantage and it's always acceptable for me.

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SO when was the last time one rikishi beat both yokozuna back-to-back?

It was the last time a rikishi beat two yokozuna on any two days in a basho: Tochinonada earned two kinboshi on days 2 and 3 of Kyushu 2003 with two yorikiri wins against Asashoryu and Musashimaru. Before that - Akebono on days 14 and 15 in Kyushu 2000 (ok, a yokozuna himself) and Chiyotaikai on days 13 and 14 in Nagoya 2000.

This query helped me greatly in that search. :-)

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No, it is not the henka as movement itself. It is just obvious that it is not a new Kotooshu, rather more a Kotooshu on a temporary momentum. Sorry, as much as I would like to believe the positive comments of the others in the thread, I don't see him going anywhere next basho. No uptick at all in the long term. Of course - my opinion.

Kotooshu 2008.05 = Hokutoriki 2004.05? :-)

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....Hakuho will remember the move the next time he faces Kotooshu. It really doesn't make Kotooshu elevate his sumo to Hakuho's level. It may have given him a win and more confidence but it really did not make him stronger against the yokozuna by winning with a trick move.

I think much of this statement applies to several other Sanyaku as well, but Asa and Kise in particular. (Not so much the henka for Asa, but in reference to his "strategy" in the match with Kotooshu.) And it doesn't make Kotooshu stronger or elevate his sumo; which is what he will need to string together two yusho for a promotion.

Given that, I think Kotooshu is doing very well; I am not so sure I would call him dominating, though. I even hope he takes the yusho, as he is the only Ozeki without one under his belt. Asa and Hakuho can spare one. :-)

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I can understand kotooshu's henka,but what of Chiyotaikai's?

Make koshi is a foregone conclusion and does he really dislike Asashoryu so much to stop him from challenging for the yusho?

He's setting Asashoryu free from the yusho hunt to enable KK for his fellas Kaio and Kotomitsuki.

(Clapping wildly...)

I'm guessing he means that Chiyo justified his ALLEGED use of henka this way: If he puts Asa out of the yusho race, Asa will have no reason to 'try too hard' against either Mickey or Kaio if either of them needs a win to avoid kadoban. Guessing...

BTW, remember this from Rikishi Talk on Day 3 of Kyushu last year (courtesy of Madorosumaru):

Chiyotaikai: (Forcing Kisenosato out as soon as he got into yotsu position) If I waited even a split second longer, he would have gotten all set [in his favorite kata].

More Taikai: (Speaking as a man who knows his own limitations) When I'm yotsu position, I am at jonidan or sandanme [level].

Even more Taikai: (Being sick and lacking keiko time, he was advised by some to try attacking from the side) No, I don't do that. I only fight fair-and-square from the front.

Edited by Shomishuu

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Kotooshu 2008.05 = Hokutoriki 2004.05? (Clapping wildly...)

Speaking of Hokutouriki- 9 straight wins without once bothering to get his hands anywhere near the ground at tachi ai-everyone knows his sumo and his weakness, and yet..

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Having just looked at the video on info-sumo I have to say it looked far less ugly than on the stream, and I don't just mean picture quality. This was not a classic Kotooshu henka where he pops up and pulls. He stayed down, used his position to get left uwate immediately, and then pushed and kept pushing.

And it strikes me that if anyone thinks this an unworthy move on his part, they need to be reminded of the bout that secured yokozuna promotion for Hakuho.

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To me it was an aggressive sidemove, immediately going for the belt. I wouldn't even call it a henka. My two cents.

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Icelanders don't have family names
Some do, for instance him. Some even have a matronymic instead of a patronymic. (Clapping wildly...)

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Having just looked at the video on info-sumo I have to say it looked far less ugly than on the stream, and I don't just mean picture quality. This was not a classic Kotooshu henka where he pops up and pulls. He stayed down, used his position to get left uwate immediately, and then pushed and kept pushing.

And it strikes me that if anyone thinks this an unworthy move on his part, they need to be reminded of the bout that secured yokozuna promotion for Hakuho.

Agreed; there's a big difference between a move that just ends the bout immediately and leaves it worthless, and a move that sets up an advantageous position.

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I don't know whether this is new Kotooshu or else, but I think those two wins and possible yusho will have a tremendous boost for his confidence, which he will carry on to the next basho. Especially with his new bulk, things are looking very good for him, in my opinion. The most important thing now is to stay healthy.

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I shall take this occasion to declare my everlasting love for... Kotomitsuki!!Crying_Lady.jpg

I love you buddy!!!

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Good show from NSK.

All fans are blind and doof . thinking this NSK

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Good show from NSK.

All fans are blind and doof . thinking this NSK

Well... you should be thankful that NSK allowed Asashoryu and Hakuho to win so many yusho, which of course didn't happen due to their abilities but because of a VERY Mongolian friendly storybook from the NSK.

Then again... better quit watching sumo as your line of thought is not helpful for your mental health otherwise.

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Kotooshu is still lacking confidence. He looked as nervous as hell. If not for Mickey, he would probaly have choked on his 2nd yusho chance.

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I disagree - at 124kg, he is still light for a sekitori.

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I can understand kotooshu's henka,but what of Chiyotaikai's?

Make koshi is a foregone conclusion and does he really dislike Asashoryu so much to stop him from challenging for the yusho?

He's setting Asashoryu free from the yusho hunt to enable KK for his fellas Kaio and Kotomitsuki.

(In jonokuchi...)

I'm guessing he means that Chiyo justified his ALLEGED use of henka this way: If he puts Asa out of the yusho race, Asa will have no reason to 'try too hard' against either Mickey or Kaio if either of them needs a win to avoid kadoban. Guessing...

I thought Jakusotsu was joking! (Clapping wildly...)

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Wow, Kotooshu could become the first rikishi that I can recall to lose the last three days and still win the Makunouchi Yusho outright!

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I thought Jakusotsu was joking! (Clapping wildly...)

Nope. I was simply paraphrasing a theory of fellow member Gernobono, which is becoming less and less far-fetched these days. I'm almost a believer...

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Wow, Kotooshu could become the first rikishi that I can recall to lose the last three days and still win the Makunouchi Yusho outright!

If I skimmed the Doitsubase correctly, nobody ever won the Makunouchi Yusho while losing on the last three days since the 15-days schedule was established. The only one who ever came close was Ozeki Wakashimazu in Kyushu 1984 who earned the jun-yusho that way.

However, three rikishi managed that feat in Juryo: Yoshinotani in Aki 1973, Akinoshima in Hatsu 1988, and Kyokushuzan in Haru 1996. (the latter won the final bout of the playoff, though)

Edited by Jakusotsu

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i "leave" for one basho and look what happens !!! Kotooshu is getting the yusho !!!

i'd better order the basho in DVD form to study one of tha wonders of the modern world

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If I skimmed the Doitsubase correctly, nobody ever won the Makunouchi Yusho while losing on the last three days since the 15-days schedule was established.

Right, and nobody has even reached a (makuuchi) yusho playoff that way, so Kotooshu could get a first either way if he loses some more.

One possibly good sign for a playoff: Three rikishi were forced into a yusho playoff after they lost their final two regular bouts. All won.

Edited by Asashosakari

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