Day 12 results and day 13 pairings

[Doitsuyama 1,173]

Two of the four leaders met today with the early ozeki matchup of Chiyotaikai and Kotomitsuki which the ozeki with the longer tenure won with oshidashi to keep the lead which he has had at least a part of since day 1. Hakuho and Baruto stayed along with wins over Aminishiki and Dejima, so Chiyotaikai will face another co-leader tomorrow and possibly in two days as he is set up against Baruto tomorrow and should face the yokozuna on day 14.

Kaio won against Kyokutenho to win his 25th bout in 28 tries against the Mongolian, and at 7-5 he needs only one more win to escape kadoban - tomorrow he faces the yokozuna. Shin-nyumaku Wakakirin won his seventh straight bout, beating Tochinonada with oshidashi and is on a good pace for a kanto-sho at 9-3. Wakanoho improved to 7-5 with a hikiotoshi over Georgian Kokkai.

All lower sanyaku lost today, so Ama and Kotoshogiku missed the kachi-koshi and Asasekiryu should fall out of sanyaku with the ninth loss. There is no shortage of candidates for sanyaku promotion as Tokitenku and Toyonoshima already joined Dejima among the kachi-koshi rikishi, and even Kisenosato and Miyabiyama aren't out of a sanyaku promotion yet, improving their cases with wins today.

Sakaizawa is 11-1 now, beating Hoshihikari with the rare ushiromotare. The two pursuers met, so only one could stay one win behind Sakaizawa and it's his college pal Ichihara who is 10-2 with a win over Iwakiyama. Shimootori also is 9-3 with a win over Katayama and still is in the yusho race as the two 9-3 rikishi face Ichihara and Sakaizawa tomorrow.

Day 12

Juryo

Ms2w   Tamawashi (4-3)	 oshidashi	  J12e   Jumonji (3-9)
J13e   Sakaizawa (11-1)	ushiromotare   J9w	Hoshihikari (8-4)
J7e	Kitataiki (4-8)	 oshidashi	  J14w   Yoshiazuma (3-9)
J7w	Ushiomaru (6-6)	 oshidashi	  J6e	Shunketsu (5-7)
J6w	Kotokasuga (6-6)	hikiotoshi	 J12w   Asofuji (6-6)
J5e	Chiyohakuho (6-6)   hikiotoshi	 J14e   Sagatsukasa (5-7)
J10w   Shirononami (7-5)   oshidashi	  J5w	Ryuo (7-5)
J4e	Shimootori (9-3)	uwatenage	  J11w   Katayama (7-5)
J10e   Mokonami (7-5)	  uwatenage	  J4w	Kitazakura (6-6)
J13w   Kyokunankai (4-8)   yoritaoshi	 J3e	Tochinohana (1-11)
J8e	Koryu (7-5)		 hatakikomi	 J2e	Hochiyama (5-7)
J2w	Hakuba (5-7)		uwatedashinage J8w	Masatsukasa (5-7)
J11e   Ichihara (10-2)	 tsukiotoshi	J1e	Iwakiyama (9-3)
J1w	Toyozakura (4-8)	hatakikomi	 J9e	Satoyama (5-7)

Makuuchi

J3w	Otsukasa (7-5)	  hikiotoshi	 M15e   Tochiozan (6-6)
M13w   Wakanoho (7-5)	  hikiotoshi	 M13e   Kokkai (6-6)
M10e   Hokutoriki (7-5)	oshidashi	  M12w   Hakurozan (3-9)
M9e	Tamakasuga (5-7)	tsukiotoshi	M10w   Yoshikaze (3-9)
M9w	Futeno (6-6)		okuridashi	 M16w   Kasuganishiki (7-5)
M14e   Kakizoe (6-6)	   tsukiotoshi	M8e	Wakanosato (7-5)
M12e   Roho (7-5)		  hikiotoshi	 M7e	Toyohibiki (7-5)
M15w   Wakakirin (9-3)	 oshidashi	  M7w	Tochinonada (7-5)
M14w   Kaiho (4-8)		 yorikiri	   M6e	Tamanoshima (3-9)
M11e   Tosanoumi (5-7)	 hatakikomi	 M6w	Goeido (7-5)

M8w	Takamisakari (5-2-5)yorikiri	   M5e	Takekaze (4-8)
M16e   Baruto (10-2)	   yorikiri	   M2w	Dejima (8-4)
M5w	Kasugao (3-9)	   tsukiotoshi	M1e	Homasho (1-11)
M1w	Miyabiyama (5-7)	oshidashi	  M3e	Kakuryu (2-10)
M4e	Toyonoshima (8-4)   uwatenage	  K1e	Ama (7-5)
M3w	Tokitenku (8-4)	 yorikiri	   K1w	Kotoshogiku (7-5)
M2e	Kisenosato (6-6)	yorikiri	   S1w	Asasekiryu (3-9)
O2w	Kaio (7-5)		  yorikiri	   M4w	Kyokutenho (2-10)
O1w	Chiyotaikai (10-2)  oshidashi	  O1e	Kotomitsuki (9-3)
Y1e	Hakuho (10-2)	   uwatenage	  S1e	Aminishiki (5-7)

Day 13

Juryo

J14e   Sagatsukasa (5-7)				  Ms5w   Bushuyama (3-3)
J9e	Satoyama (5-7)					 J12w   Asofuji (6-6)
J8e	Koryu (7-5)						J14w   Yoshiazuma (3-9)
J13w   Kyokunankai (4-8)				  J6w	Kotokasuga (6-6)
J6e	Shunketsu (5-7)					J12e   Jumonji (3-9)
J10e   Mokonami (7-5)					 J5w	Ryuo (7-5)
J5e	Chiyohakuho (6-6)				  J7e	Kitataiki (4-8)
J11w   Katayama (7-5)					 J4w	Kitazakura (6-6)
J4e	Shimootori (9-3)				   J11e   Ichihara (10-2)
J7w	Ushiomaru (6-6)					J3w	Otsukasa (7-5)
J10w   Shirononami (7-5)				  J2w	Hakuba (5-7)
J2e	Hochiyama (5-7)					J9w	Hoshihikari (8-4)
J8w	Masatsukasa (5-7)				  J1w	Toyozakura (4-8)
J1e	Iwakiyama (9-3)					J13e   Sakaizawa (11-1)

Makuuchi

J3e	Tochinohana (1-11)				 M14w   Kaiho (4-8)
M11e   Tosanoumi (5-7)					M13w   Wakanoho (7-5)
M14e   Kakizoe (6-6)					  M10w   Yoshikaze (3-9)
M9e	Tamakasuga (5-7)				   M15e   Tochiozan (6-6)
M8e	Wakanosato (7-5)				   M16w   Kasuganishiki (7-5)
M13e   Kokkai (6-6)					   M7w	Tochinonada (7-5)
M7e	Toyohibiki (7-5)				   M10e   Hokutoriki (7-5)
M12e   Roho (7-5)						 M6w	Goeido (7-5)
M5e	Takekaze (4-8)					 M12w   Hakurozan (3-9)
M3e	Kakuryu (2-10)					 M8w	Takamisakari (5-2-5)

M15w   Wakakirin (9-3)					M2w	Dejima (8-4)
M2e	Kisenosato (6-6)				   M9w	Futeno (6-6)
M5w	Kasugao (3-9)					  M1w	Miyabiyama (5-7)
M1e	Homasho (1-11)					 M6e	Tamanoshima (3-9)
M4e	Toyonoshima (8-4)				  K1w	Kotoshogiku (7-5)
K1e	Ama (7-5)						  M3w	Tokitenku (8-4)
M4w	Kyokutenho (2-10)				  S1w	Asasekiryu (3-9)
O1e	Kotomitsuki (9-3)				  S1e	Aminishiki (5-7)
M16e   Baruto (10-2)					  O1w	Chiyotaikai (10-2)
Y1e	Hakuho (10-2)					  O2w	Kaio (7-5)

[Bealzbob 0]

Will the NSK risk Baruto potentially winning the yusho without facing the yokozuna? Personally I don't think so.

Firstly I think the NSK would much rather see an ozeki yusho than see an M16 win it.

Therefore I think there's a possibility that they will pair Baruto with Hakuho on day 14 and by the time it comes to making the day 15 torikumi they will know the outcome of the day 13 Baruto v Chiyotaikai match so they can THEN decide whether Hakuho's day 15 opponent is the probably-out-of-contention Mickey or the potentially-still-in-contention Chiyotaikai. With Baruto facing the ozeki that doesn't face Hakuho.

If the above doesn't happen, then one of Chiyotaikai or Baruto avoids Hakuho and could potentially yusho aswell. But with the above scenario, they both face him (if needs be) and the yusho winner will have faced all top dogs. Mickey becomes 'optional' because he is not sharing the lead at this point.

Am I way off the mark or am I making sense ?

[Doitsuyama 1,173]

Am I way off the mark or am I making sense ?

I say you are way off the mark. How would it make sense to leave Kotomitsuki or Chiyotaikai off Hakuho's schedule? Those two fellows certainly are at least as much in the yusho race as Baruto. Now leaving Hakuho-Kaio away and letting him get torikumi luck like Kotooshu last basho makes more sense but it's too late for that.

[Bealzbob 0]

Because as it stands, if 2 out of Hakuho, Chiyotaikai and Baruto keep winning then Mickey is not in the yusho race. So in day 15, two of them could well go into it 12-2 having not all faced each other. My way ensures that they all face each other if they need to.

How would it make sense to leave Kotomitsuki or Chiyotaikai off Hakuho's schedule?

It makes sense to leave Mickey off Hakuho's schedule if Chiyotaikai beats Baruto on day 13.

Reason being -

The day 14 torikumi will have been made before Chiyotaikai faces Baruto, so they need to make sure that if Baruto wins that bout that they haven't made a day 14 torikumi that doesn't make him face Hakuho (because they wouldn't want him facing Hak on day 15). If Baruto doesn't win that bout, they can always make Chiyo face Hakuho in a winner-takes-all on day 15. All the while, Mickey is 1 behind and not in contention.

It makes sense to leave Chiyotaikai off Hakuho's schedule if Baruto beats him on day 13.

Reason being -

If Baruto wins on day 13 and then only has 1 other rikishi (Hakuho) with a similar record to his on day 14, then the day 15 bout would be Hakuho-Mickey because potentially Mickey might only be 1 win behind Hakuho and the bout would be meaningful.

Anyway, we'll see. I'm not sure I'm articulating my thoughts succinctly enough here but trust me, in my head it makes sense (Sign of approval...)

The bottom line for me, and where I'm coming from here is - in order to fairly decide the destination of the yusho, the 3 current leaders need to face each other in the remainder of the basho. If we accept that they wouldn't want to see a Hakuho-Baruto bout on day 15 then the only other day it can happen is day 14, and depending on the result of the day 13 bout between Baruto and Chiyotaikai they can then decide whether Hakuho's day 15 opponent is the by-then 12-2 Chiyotaikai or the by then probably-11-3 Kotomitsuki.

[higginbotham 0]

Wakanoho surely has some kind of mental problem ... (Sign of approval...)

[Asashosakari 18,646]

Reason being -

The day 14 torikumi will have been made before Chiyotaikai faces Baruto, so they need to make sure that if Baruto wins that bout that they haven't made a day 14 torikumi that doesn't make him face Hakuho (because they wouldn't want him facing Hak on day 15). If Baruto doesn't win that bout, they can always make Chiyo face Hakuho in a winner-takes-all on day 15. All the while, Mickey is 1 behind and not in contention.

Why would it necessarily be a winner-takes-all in the second scenario?

Day 13:

Taikai (11-2) beats Baruto (10-3)

Hakuho (11-2) beats Kaio

Day 14:

Baruto (11-3) beats Hakuho (11-3)

Taikai (12-2) beats whomever

Day 15:

Hakuho (12-3) beats Taikai (12-3)

Then you've had the yokozuna face an easier schedule than Chiyotaikai, because the latter had to face Kotomitsuki and the yokozuna didn't. (Edit: And Kotomitsuki might be 12-3 in that scenario, too, without having faced the yokozuna.)

My expectation is that they'll either scrap the Kotomitsuki-Kaio bout on Day 14 in favour of Mickey-Bart (it's a cartoon dream match!), or leave everything in standard mode and hope that Baruto loses against Taikai tomorrow - if he does win, they can still put him against Hakuho on Day 15 and arrive at the same spot as in your scenario (i.e. Hakuho doesn't face Kotomitsuki at all). I don't see what's wrong with a senshuraku Hakuho-Baruto bout anyway...it's not like they're scrapping a yokozuna-yokozuna match as they had to do for Takatoriki; it's "only" a yokozuna-ozeki matchup.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Asashosakari

[Peterao 3]

I think that all the two loss guys will lose at least once more. I can see Kaio turning back the clock to beat Hakuho in Kyushu for his KK, and a pissed off Hakuho taking Chiyotaikai to school the next day. Assuming Baruto gets beat by Taikai or someone else, Mickey is still a good dark horse yusho contender.

Pay no attention to the young giraffe...

[Kintamayama 44,165]

Isn't it a given that the Yokozuna East always faces his ACTIVE second in command on senshuraku? I'd think that for anything "abnormal" that manages to squeeze itself into a lead in senshuraku-there is a ketteisen for that, no?

[Bealzbob 0]

My expectation is that they'll either scrap the Kotomitsuki-Kaio bout on Day 14 in favour of Mickey-Bart (it's a cartoon dream match!), or leave everything in standard mode and hope that Baruto loses against Taikai tomorrow - if he does win, they can still put him against Hakuho on Day 15 and arrive at the same spot as in your scenario (i.e. Hakuho doesn't face Kotomitsuki at all). I don't see what's wrong with a senshuraku Hakuho-Baruto bout anyway...it's not like they're scrapping a yokozuna-yokozuna match as they had to do for Takatoriki; it's "only" a yokozuna-ozeki matchup.

Well I was working on the assumption/premise that they wouldn't want a Hakuho-Baruto matchup on day 15 if they could possibly avoid it. However, if you think they wouldn't mind doing that then of course they can then take fewer risks with the day 14 torikumi. I just thought they would want either Mickey or Chiyo as Hak's day 15 opponent - and on that premise coupled with wanting the leaders to play each other, that meant Baruto would have to face him on day 14. Anyhoo, good to chat ..

[yamaneko 2]

odds of wakanoho pulling a henka against the guy that everyone loves to step tothe side to, tosanoumi? 95%? 99%?

I was hoping wakanoho's weak tachiai efforts would go the way of the merry pumpkin, along with his dignity when he got blasted into the upperdeck by toyohibiki.

[Bealzbob 0]

Day 12
Juryo
J13e   Sakaizawa (11-1)	ushiromotare   J9w	Hoshihikari (8-4)

:-) Ugliest, messiest, most un-coordinated win I've seen in a while.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Bealzbob

[Bealzbob 0]

Wakanoho surely has some kind of mental problem ... :-)

(Sign of approval...) Something like that. If he ever does that against someone who is actually expecting it then he may very well end up with a mental problem cuz he could be caught, spun around and thrown on his head. What a numpty.

[Asojima 2,870]

Day 12
Juryo
J13e   Sakaizawa (11-1)	ushiromotare   J9w	Hoshihikari (8-4)

:-) Ugliest, messiest, most un-coordinated win I've seen in a while.

And he has several other wins this basho just like that. I can't figure out how he does it.

[vpl 0]

Wakanoho surely has some kind of mental problem ... :-)

He thinks he can fly.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 203]

Day 12
Juryo
J13e   Sakaizawa (11-1)	ushiromotare   J9w	Hoshihikari (8-4)

:-) Ugliest, messiest, most un-coordinated win I've seen in a while.

And he has several other wins this basho just like that. I can't figure out how he does it.

Actually he swang Hoshihikari to the edge with rather effortless kotenage and Hoshihikari just tried his tenacity to stay in despite desperate balance situation and Sakaizawa leaned on him. Not so uncoordinated win at all. Just sign of Hoshihikari's brilliance in losses too.

[Sasanishiki 57]

So, in the above scenario about who faces who on the final three days or so, is Kaio the beneficiary? Might an easier bout than usual be his because they are trying to sandwich Baruto into the schedule for a tougher opponent?

[Bealzbob 0]

Well Asashosakari, you were right. Despite them not knowing the outcome of the Baruto-Chiyotaikai bout at the time, they put Hakuho up against Chiyotaikai on day 14.

Unfortunately for my curiosity, Chiyotaikai then went and won that bout meaning we will never get to see what they would have had to do on day 15 if both Hakuho & Baruto had gone into it at 12-2. Would they have still gone for Hak-Mickey or would they have removed the #1 rank v #2 rank bout and put the yok against the M16.

They got lucky (Applauding...) (Weeping...)

[Washuyama 634]

Prior to Day 13s bouts, the announcers were talking about this very thing. Their graphic showed the matchups for days 13-15. Day 14 showed Hakuho/Taikai and Mickey/Kaio and Day 15 showed Hakuho/Mickey and Kaio/Taikai and with a big "?" next to Baruto's name. I guess they figured if he can get past Chiyo and two more sanyaku, he deserves still, at a minimum, would need a playoff for yusho. Anyway, now it doesn't matter...... Unless Mickey beats Hakuho and Hakuho beats Taikai, then we're back at a 3-way at 12-3...

And some people thought these two basho without Asa would suck...

[Asashosakari 18,646]

And some people thought these two basho without Asa would suck...

Don't worry, they'll be back saying exactly that in case the yusho score turns out to be "only" 12-3.

[Jakusotsu 5,721]

Would they have still gone for Hak-Mickey or would they have removed the #1 rank v #2 rank bout and put the yok against the M16.

Most definitely yes and no.

[HenryK 38]

Prior to Day 13s bouts, the announcers were talking about this very thing. Their graphic showed the matchups for days 13-15. Day 14 showed Hakuho/Taikai and Mickey/Kaio and Day 15 showed Hakuho/Mickey and Kaio/Taikai and with a big "?" next to Baruto's name. I guess they figured if he can get past Chiyo and two more sanyaku, he deserves still, at a minimum, would need a playoff for yusho. Anyway, now it doesn't matter...... Unless Mickey beats Hakuho and Hakuho beats Taikai, then we're back at a 3-way at 12-3...

And some people thought these two basho without Asa would suck...

They do. The yushos in these two bashos are a bit fakey. They are really blown up jun-yushos.

Hakuho in the Yokozuna east spot is also a bit of a fake. He hasn't proven that he's worth it in the ring. Problem is, as long as Asashoryu is getting banned for playing soccer at a charity event (or for whatever "reason" the JSA will come up with next), Hakuho can't prove it.

[Asashosakari 18,646]

They do.

Yup, just like all basho will suck henceforth once Asashoryu decides to retire...

The yushos in these two bashos are a bit fakey. They are really blown up jun-yushos.

You sure sound convinced that Asashoryu would have been better than Hakuho in September. I mean, with all of those (cough) injuries of his that he was carrying at the time...

Seriously, while I don't want to see Asashoryu retire anytime soon (whether by his own volition or by force), I've been "missing" him for about 36 minutes total this basho, namely 6 minutes on each even-numbered day when it's Hakuho again in the musubi-no-ichiban. If you're unable to find any enjoyment in an Asashoryu-less basho, I'd suggest you may broaden your horizons a bit.

Edit: By the way, I'm just dying for the first basho that Asashoryu decides to sit out on his own (he's getting older and more creaky, it'll happen)...I suspect that basho will be declared as "teh suck" as well, even before it starts.

Edited November 23, 2007 by Asashosakari

[HenryK 38]

They do.

Yup, just like all basho will suck henceforth once Asashoryu decides to retire...

The yushos in these two bashos are a bit fakey. They are really blown up jun-yushos.

You sure sound convinced that Asashoryu would have been better than Hakuho in September. I mean, with all of those (cough) injuries of his that he was carrying at the time...

Seriously, while I don't want to see Asashoryu retire anytime soon (whether by his own volition or by force), I've been "missing" him for about 36 minutes total this basho, namely 6 minutes on each even-numbered day when it's Hakuho again in the musubi-no-ichiban. If you're unable to find any enjoyment in an Asashoryu-less basho, I'd suggest you may broaden your horizons a bit.

Edit: By the way, I'm just dying for the first basho that Asashoryu decides to sit out on his own (he's getting older and more creaky, it'll happen)...I suspect that basho will be declared as "teh suck" as well, even before it starts.

You're missing the point. An Asa too injured to compete can't beat the rikishi who wins the basho instead. If Asa misses bashos because of JSA politics, however, the "winner" benefited obviously from being spared the competition of the by far best rikishi. Of course this devalues his achievement. It's like winning Wimbledon in the forced absence of Roger Federer. Or winning the soccer World Cup in the forced absence of Brazil.

Btw, I'm not soundly convinced that Asa would have beaten Hakuho in September (chances are perhpas 2:1). But I am soundly convinced Hakuho's yusho would have meant much, much more had it beenachieved while competing against Asa.

You don't think so yourself?

[Asojima 2,870]

I am soundly convinced Hakuho's yusho would have meant much, much more had it beenachieved while competing against Asa.

To whom?

[Andreas 0]

Prior to Day 13s bouts, the announcers were talking about this very thing. Their graphic showed the matchups for days 13-15. Day 14 showed Hakuho/Taikai and Mickey/Kaio and Day 15 showed Hakuho/Mickey and Kaio/Taikai and with a big "?" next to Baruto's name. I guess they figured if he can get past Chiyo and two more sanyaku, he deserves still, at a minimum, would need a playoff for yusho. Anyway, now it doesn't matter...... Unless Mickey beats Hakuho and Hakuho beats Taikai, then we're back at a 3-way at 12-3...

And some people thought these two basho without Asa would suck...

I think Baruto might get Kotoshogiku on day 15, who is the highest ranked available rikishi with KK. They gave him Ama for day 14 for the same reason. If they break up the Hakuho-Kotomitsuki bout he will get Hakuho, breaking up the Chiyotaikai-Kaiou bout seems pretty senseless.

Edited November 23, 2007 by Andreas