Isegahama Beya to be Revived

[madorosumaru 7]

Sankei Sports reported that Isegahama Beya, which had shut its door earlier this year, is in process of being revived. Ajigawa Oyakata is interested in assuming the Isegahama myoseki and, if everything goes smoothly, he could re-open Isegahama Beya by the beginning of Hatsu Basho. The 19 riskishi, two gyoji, two yobidashi and the tokoyama at Ajigawa will, of course, transfer over to the new heya.

[yamaneko 2]

I take it this does not open up any foreigner slots.

[Sasanishiki 57]

Well, Ajigawa already has Ama and Ako (both Mongolians) so the answer is most likely no.

However, I guess technically there could be a spot assuming that Ajigawa oyakata relinquishes his myoseki, takes up Isegahama and the two stables exist at the same time. Isegahama could then recruit a foreigner, and then the new Ajogawa oyakata could fold his heya into Isegahama and then there would be a third foreigner in the ranks. Probably far too extreme a move for the sake of one foreign recruit (unless of course they had an absolute star lined up)

[Asashosakari 19,654]

Can't say I'd be a fan of that move...not for any particularly logical reason, but just because Asahifuji has built quite a nice operation under the Ajigawa name and I'd like for it to stay that way. I wonder what his motivations are; if it's just the supposed prestige value of the Isegahama myoseki I'd find it a bit lame. It's not as bad as, say, wanting to open up a Tamagaki-beya specifically because it was a real powerhouse in the 18th and 19th century, but it's close.

I do wonder how this could possibly fit with what were supposedly ex-Kiyokuni's plans for his kabu.

Oh, and that'd be the third time since Showa that a stable is renamed to Isegahama-beya...no actual foundings under that name.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Asashosakari

[kaiguma 0]

Can't say I'd be a fan of that move...not for any particularly logical reason, but just because Asahifuji has built quite a nice operation under the Ajigawa name and I'd like for it to stay that way. I wonder what his motivations are; if it's just the supposed prestige value of the Isegahama myoseki I'd find it a bit lame. It's not as bad as, say, wanting to open up a Tamagaki-beya specifically because it was a real powerhouse in the 18th and 19th century, but it's close.

I do wonder how this could possibly fit with what were supposedly ex-Kiyokuni's plans for his kabu.

Oh, and that'd be the third time since Showa that a stable is renamed to Isegahama-beya...no actual foundings under that name.

I don't get it at all ;-)

Ajigawa has a great ring to it, sort of independent sounding: powerful and free.

He has spent so much time and effort raising 2 star rikishi under that name, and his stable is now only behind Sadogatake and Takasago. And takasago cannot be considered in good standing at the moment with, losing quite a bit of face over Asashoryu and needing time to heal those wounds. So Ajigawa is right up there with the "powerhouses" of our time, even if they don't nearly measure up to the strongest of the past.

I am baffled. Is this the kind of move that can secure him votes into a Riji position maybe?

[Kintamayama 45,527]

It's all about the honor, ladies and gentlemen, all about the honor.

And probably naming Tatsunami Ichimon Tatsunami-Isegahama Ichimon again.

Not only heya, but an Ichimon name. Even if not, it's the name. The same reason, BTW, that the totally presently tainted Tokitsukaze name was not allowed to die, to an extent we had an empty slot on the Banzuke, no less. Different stories, same ultimate reason.

Honor.

The move has not raised any journalistic eyebrows as far as I can see so far-on the contrary. It seems the papers are all for it. And yes, it could be a ploy for riji-dom in the near future.

We shall see.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 19,654]

It's all about the honor, ladies and gentlemen, all about the honor.

And probably naming Tatsunami Ichimon Tatsunami-Isegahama Ichimon again.

Not only heya, but an Ichimon name.

I doubt that's coming back, at least not that way. Ex-Asahifuji isn't even an Isegahama-ichimon product himself.

Anyway, I guess I just don't see it...producing one yokozuna and one ozeki in 70+ years of existence is certainly something, but it isn't all that outstanding and in any case the heya didn't amount to much of anything during the final 20-odd years of its existence. At this point it's probably more famous for being an ichimon that dwindled to (nearly) nothing, and as far as that goes...well, how many people are talking about the Ikazuchi group of stables anymore that I mentioned the other day? And the myoseki itself doesn't strike me as particularly fraught with history, either; there's the fact that it was once held by a yokozuna (Terukuni), but that goes for lots of names...this isn't like the Nakadachi->Sakaigawa switch where the new name was the former name of a rijicho and acquired special meaning that way.

Seriously, let the Isegahama name rest for another ten years and nobody will consider it anything special anymore. I suppose that's why somebody might still see something in it now, but I definitely disagree that they should.

[Kintamayama 45,527]

It's all about the honor, ladies and gentlemen, all about the honor.

And probably naming Tatsunami Ichimon Tatsunami-Isegahama Ichimon again.

Not only heya, but an Ichimon name.

I doubt that's coming back, at least not that way. Ex-Asahifuji isn't even an Isegahama-ichimon product himself.

etc..

Reading between the lines, the general tone of the articles is that of great honor and awe towards the Isegahama name, deservedly or not, and a sense of agreement and hope that it would be "resurrected".. If a successful guy like Ajigawa who doesn't strike me as a fool (contrary to say, Takasago..) is bent on doing it, there has got to be a reason beyond numbers and cold facts. Kyokai stuff like this just doesn't happen for kicks.. It's a big balagan to start all these changes-if he wants it so badly, there has got to be something behind it.

From my experience with things sumo and not, honor is the motivation. Upholding it, trying to get it, trying to renew it- I'd steak it and say it's the underlying theme here.

We'll just have to wait and see how wrong I am.

[Asashosakari 19,654]

From my experience with things sumo and not, honor is the motivation. Upholding it, trying to get it, trying to renew it- I'd steak it and say it's the underlying theme here.

We'll just have to wait and see how wrong I am.

Well, I for one wasn't trying to imply that you're wrong. :-) It's probably exactly that, I just think that much of that honor is misplaced in this case, or at least exaggerated. Keep in mind that I was completely convinced that the Kyokai wouldn't let the Tokitsukaze-beya name lapse and that I thought it was the right decision by them in that case, so it's not like I'm against that type of reasoning in general.

I still wonder how exactly ex-Kiyokuni fits into all this...

Edited November 1, 2007 by Asashosakari

[Tamanaogijima 765]

I still wonder how exactly ex-Kiyokuni fits into all this...

After I read it yesterday I was to jump on the 'honor' train, too.

But today I think: They are just sweet-talking Kiyokuni into something. (Not that he would not deserve it being deceived a bit.) Why does it have to happen that fast now? Why does he want to start in Hatsu 2008 already? Of course, because after Hatsu 2008 there are Kyokai elections. The Kyokai as entity will never buy back "missing" kabu, but the ichimon will to save the electoral power. Remember the Wajima scandal? Not the Kyokai per se, but Nishonoseki ichimon bought the Hanakago myoseki out of the hands of the yakuza.

Now, how could an extra kabu help in voting? Only if there was one more oyakata in Tatsunami ichimon. Do you see some retirement candidates in November or December...? Do you...? I dare not to say it but I see just one. Kaio picks up his Asakayama myoseki (Kotonishiki gets in exchange Ajigawa myoseki to rent) and the Tatsunami ichimon has one additional vote. The whole step could also lead to a Riji Asahifuji in some years. Remember, Oshima isn't the youngest any more and he will soon need a successor.

EDIT: Changed a silly mistake...

Edited November 4, 2007 by Tamanaogijima

[Koneko 0]

Kaio picks up his Asakayama myoseki (Kotonishiki gets in exchange Ajigawa myoseki to rent) and the Tatsunami ichimon has one additional vote.

Read an interview with Tomozuna oyakata where he said he wanted Kaio to remain with Tomozuna heya for a couple of years before starting up his own. Do you really expect Kaio to pick up Asakayama right away? Can he do that and still be oyakata-in-training with Tomozuna?

Maybe stupid questions, but I'm new to this, so...

[Tamanaogijima 765]

Do you really expect Kaio to pick up Asakayama right away? Can he do that and still be oyakata-in-training with Tomozuna?

Yes, he will (the kabu is his) and he can (stay with them). Only half of the oyakata are currently heya owning ones. That's pretty much already, there have been times with less that 30 heya. The other half is associated to a heya, which is usually the one in which they were as rikishi.

Kaio will most probably stay associated oyakata at Tomozuna-beya. I don't expect him to open up his own in the near future (that's a pretty expensive task, too) but to stay with his heya and learn (administrative) oyakata basics. Maybe he will not branch out at all but inherit the heya and name in some 10 years. Current Tomozuna will be busy with Riji duties then and the two could switch their places as shisho and associated oyakata (like Takanohana and his father Futagoyama did).

[Koneko 0]

Wiser now - thank you! (In a state of confusion...)

[madorosumaru 7]

Sankei Sports reported that Isegahama Beya, which had shut its door earlier this year, is in process of being revived. Ajigawa Oyakata is interested in assuming the Isegahama myoseki and, if everything goes smoothly, he could re-open Isegahama Beya by the beginning of Hatsu Basho. The 19 riskishi, two gyoji, two yobidashi and the tokoyama at Ajigawa will, of course, transfer over to the new heya.

The NSK announced on Nov. 30 that Ajigawa Oyakata, former yokozuna Asahifuji, has taken over the Isegahama myoseki. Ajigawa Beya will become Isegahama Beya.

It was also announced that Aminishiki has acquired the Ajigawa toshiyori kabu.

Edited November 30, 2007 by madorosumaru

[Tamanaogijima 765]

So essentially Tamanoshima, who is Kiyokuni's nephew, is out of this game. Sad... But congratulations to Aminishiki!

I'm happy to see the name Isegahama back on the banzuke. It is a name that must not miss (... despite I know the latest history of Kiyokuni's heya pinchbeck and the very fact that names are nothing but smoke and mirrors).

EDIT: In the Jiji article Isegahama is written four times as 伊勢ケ浜 (simple "hama" kanji) as opposed to 伊勢ヶ濱 (complex "hama" kanji). I don't know whether they just didn't know what they were doing or if Asahifuji really wants to give the kabu a new "face".

Edited November 30, 2007 by Tamanaogijima

[Raishu 208]

Considering the fact, that Ajigawa kabu is vacant from today on, who could be a potential loaner?

Kobo?

[Tamanaogijima 765]

Kobo, yes maybe. (I must admit I do know absolutely nothing about his current health condition or his will to continue.)

Another option is Kotonishiki, who still rents Kaio's Asakayama-kabu. He could get Ajigawa in exchange as Kaio WILL need his rather sooner than later -- I always wondered why he Kotonishiki picked up that kabu at all...

Btw, in the German forum I got an answer for my "hama" kanii question. (Thanks!) Obviously the online media always use the simple kanji. They also write the two former Isegahama #6 Terukuni and #7 Kiyokuni with the simple "kuni" 国.

[Kintamayama 45,527]

12 rikishi from Isegahama will be changing their shikona soon, losing the 安 letter from the Ajigawa days. This will not include the three sekitori Ama, Aminishiki and Asoufuji. "If there will be a promotion, the Sekitori will be changing their shikona as well", said Isegahama Oyakata.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 19,654]

12 rikishi from Isegahama will be changing their shikona soon, losing the 安 letter from the Ajigawa days. This will not include the three sekitori Ama, Aminishiki and Asoufuji. "If there will be a promotion, the Sekitori will be changing their shikona as well", said Isegahama Oyakata.

Oh groan... Lots more -fuji, I guess, based on what we've seen with the new guy (Homarefuji)? I always enjoyed the fact that the common kanji for Ajigawa-beya rikishi was taken from the stable name and not from the shisho's own shikona...

[Kintamayama 45,527]

Oh groan... Lots more -fuji, I guess, based on what we've seen with the new guy (Homarefuji)?

I just had a thought. Wouldn't it be cool to have a Homarefuji-Baruto match?

D'oh..

[kaiguma 0]

12 rikishi from Isegahama will be changing their shikona soon, losing the 安 letter from the Ajigawa days. This will not include the three sekitori Ama, Aminishiki and Asoufuji. "If there will be a promotion, the Sekitori will be changing their shikona as well", said Isegahama Oyakata.

oh say it ain't so! I would be thrilled by Aminishiki or Ama reaching Ozeki, but to change their name because it was connected to the old heya name??? Not my cup of tea. I can't imagine calling either of them by any other name. Ah well, maybe I will be surprised and really like Ama's new shikona: Amafuji? I can deal with that (Holiday feeling...)

[Washuyama 641]

Ah well, maybe I will be surprised and really like Ama's new shikona: Amafuji? I can deal with that ;-)

Or maybe Asahifuji?? (Dohyo-iri...)

[philafuji 1]

12 rikishi from Isegahama will be changing their shikona soon, losing the 安 letter from the Ajigawa days. This will not include the three sekitori Ama, Aminishiki and Asoufuji. "If there will be a promotion, the Sekitori will be changing their shikona as well", said Isegahama Oyakata.

oh say it ain't so! I would be thrilled by Aminishiki or Ama reaching Ozeki, but to change their name because it was connected to the old heya name??? Not my cup of tea. I can't imagine calling either of them by any other name. Ah well, maybe I will be surprised and really like Ama's new shikona: Amafuji? I can deal with that (Clapping wildly...)

Kaiguma,

I liked the way you started off. I would have one heck of a time trying to figure out who they were if they changed their names. To me the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here.

[kaiguma 0]

Ah well, maybe I will be surprised and really like Ama's new shikona: Amafuji? I can deal with that ;-)

Or maybe Asahifuji?? (Neener, neener...)

Yeah, one can dream... But he will only offer it for the biggest promotion of all, and let's be honest it seems unlikely...