Doping tests to start!

[aderechelsea 124]

the same thought had crossed my mind (i remember your old posts on the matter) but didn't want to open a discussion like that. Now that you mention it though i have to say ... "ditto".

;-)

[Asashosakari 18,786]

That brings up the question of who we would expect to see hit the most by anti-doping regulations...young prospects trying to break through? Veterans trying to hang on? Everyone equally across the spectrum? (Going by Kaikitsune's suspicion that most rikishi are using or have used steroids...)

I must admit that the idea to test only yusho and sansho winners just begs for unintended consequences, though...who cares about winning a sansho anymore if it would blow the cover off your steroid usage? ;-)

[ilovesumo 12]

If most used it, there will be a balance again without it.

[Harry 67]

With all the talk of how traditional sumo is, it is kind of pathetic that this is the current state of affairs. There is a lot of money in oozumo which is I'm sure why this is done but it is still sad. Why bother with all the old style chakonabe if you're going to get IV drips and shoot up with 'roids and HGH? You might as well have them eating tubs of GNC Choco Gainer...

[Kaikitsune Makoto 203]

With all the talk of how traditional sumo is, it is kind of pathetic that this is the current state of affairs. There is a lot of money in oozumo which is I'm sure why this is done but it is still sad. Why bother with all the old style chakonabe if you're going to get IV drips and shoot up with 'roids and HGH? You might as well have them eating tubs of GNC Choco Gainer...

Money is an incentive sure but I think it is done simply because sumo is the ultimate roid sport when it comes to benefits. Chanko becomes ever more valuable with the roid stuff as chanko gives all the building material the roid doses can then turn into muscle. Keiko gives the ultimate stimulus. Perfect combination. Add the keiko form in sumo and the stress to same muscle groups day after day and you have reached the very core of why roids are good.

I find this doping test issue extremely interesting. Indeed, if sansho winners and yusho winners only tested, it would create a totally bizarre situation where rank and filers could continue the usage without any worries while for both very much doped yokozuna it would be a real nuisance as it would many others with yusho/sansho chances.

I still think this will somehow be wiped away maybe after some initial testing. One hilarious possibility is a declaration "We tested rikishi, there were indications of very low usage, hence it is clear that rikishi don't do drugs" ("rikishi don't do drugs" was the way Chiyonofuji so eloquantly put it when asked about roids in sumo) and then quit the testing.

If sumo doesn't have wide spread usage of anabolic substances, then I don't know what sport does. High level professional bodybuilding is a sport that has probably 100% of the participants on many different anabolics though.

[kaiguma 0]

anyone care to supply the quick and easy distinction between an anabolic and a steroid?

[Kaikitsune Makoto 203]

anyone care to supply the quick and easy distinction between an anabolic and a steroid?

"Roids" is kind of a pet name for anabolic stuff even though roids only refer to steroids like nandrolone, stazolone etc. and for example much used growth hormone is not a steroid at all. Anabolic means a substance that is anabolic. Anabolic means tissue building while catabolic is the opposite. A post-of granny in bed is in catabolic state usually while 14 year old boy in growth spurt in definitely in anabolic state. Ama aims for eternal anabolism.

[kaiguma 0]

anyone care to supply the quick and easy distinction between an anabolic and a steroid?

"Roids" is kind of a pet name for anabolic stuff even though roids only refer to steroids like nandrolone, stazolone etc. and for example much used growth hormone is not a steroid at all. Anabolic means a substance that is anabolic. Anabolic means tissue building while catabolic is the opposite. A post-of granny in bed is in catabolic state usually while 14 year old boy in growth spurt in definitely in anabolic state. Ama aims for eternal anabolism.

So you think he's juiced? Not being defensive, only curious...

Just received my clearfile from Fay :-P and he is looking massive! A real monster and no one could call him little anymore. I think he's bigger than Kakuryu or Tokitenku now. I remember a report saying he works out at the gym constantly, which can be good with chanko if he's skipping the nap, but you do have to wonder....

If some of them are on illegal anabolics, sansho winners like Ama probably stand the most risk of being affected by partial enforcement. Partial enforcement will also encourage Yaocho in a big way. "Oh crap, I'm 9-1 and juiced, so now I need to give away 4 wins in the last 5 days so I don't get tested. Let's have my tsukebito go meet Kakizoe's tsukebito at the pachinko house..."

[Oh, and Roger Clemens is an INNOCENT MAN!]

Edited February 8, 2008 by kaiguma

[Kintamayama 44,354]

The new anti-doping era has officially begun. The talk is over, the conventions have begun. An explanatory meeting was held at the KKan today with the rikishi and Oyakata. First to be invited were Dewanoumi Ichimon members- Rikishi, Oyakata, Okamisan, managers-the works. This is the first time that such a meeting was held on such a large scale on this subject. A "doping prevention booklet " was distributed among the rikishi, in 5 foreign languages as well. "The most important thing is the rikishis' health. One session surely won't make everyone understand everything, but we do have to attempt to tackle this problem seriously!", said Kitanoumi Rijicho. The other Ichimons will all be invited in the next three days.

Edited February 13, 2008 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 44,354]

900 (!!) people participated today, gyoji and yobidashi too. This is more serious than it seems, it seems.. The lectures were an hour each, explaining which drugs were illegal, and what methods will be used for testing. "They have got to understand that merely from the 'fair play' point of view, using drugs is not to be!", said Mr. Oonishi, committee member of the Kyokai anti-doping committee. As for the penalties, Mr. Oonishi said it his personal view that if a yusho winner is tested positive, his yusho should be taken away from him.

Meeting:

Edited February 13, 2008 by Kintamayama

[aderechelsea 124]

Masatsukasa is not getting doped apparently.

He couldn't care less about all this ... he is either meditating or sleeping. :-)

[ilovesumo 12]

From the Chiganoura blog (the Heya was hit by influenza)

medicine against that will be against the anti doping law (I think he is talking about antibiotics here)

[Harry 67]

From the Chiganoura blog (the Heya was hit by influenza)

medicine against that will be against the anti doping law (I think he is talking about antibiotics here)

Hmm, antiobiotics won't help influenza anyways but many over the counter cold & flu remedies are mostly pseudoephedrine which is banned in most sports.

Edited February 13, 2008 by Harry

[ilovesumo 12]

From the Chiganoura blog (the Heya was hit by influenza)

medicine against that will be against the anti doping law (I think he is talking about antibiotics here)

Hmm, antiobiotics won't help influenza anyways but many over the counter cold & flu remedies are mostly pseudoephedrine which is banned in most sports.

Question for Kaikitsune.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Anything on specifics?o.

Ephedrines and cold remedies were the only things specifically mentioned.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Another article says there were 500 in attendance, and that Nishonoseki Ichimon and Takadagawa beya were present as well. The plan is to have surprise tests between bashos . "It's all for fair play, so that's great", said Takanohana Oyakata. "We've got to be real careful using household medicine from now on..", added his wife.

Takanohana and wife at the meeting:

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Procedure:

First urine after the match, taken in a special room. No more traditional baths or showers immediately after the match for the chosen rikishi. "We are targeting the yusho and sansho winners . The yusho winner will have time to adjust his mage, then he will take the test, and then, if all is well, go out for the presentation ceremony", said Mr. Oonishi, stressing the "forget about that short celebration bath" part.

We must all remember amidst this rush of optimism that everything has to be approved by the Kyokai. These are all suggestions and words so far. "Our main worry is the rikishis' health", said Isenoumi Oyakata, when asked specifically about possible punishments for using illegal substances, which means, in other words..

Kitanoumi and others listening intently:

Edited February 14, 2008 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Today, the second anti-doping lecture was held, this time attended by Hakuhou, among others. "I didn't reach Yokozuna by doing THAT..", he said. The lecture took an hour and 20 minutes. "There is a possibility that I inadvertently used medicine containing some of these outlawed substances while treating myself for fatigue or pain. I have to go through 6 basho a year, and we may be losing some of our privacy in our daily life.. I bet there is no one in the Sumo world who uses these substances..", he reflected. Since he entered Sumo in 2000, he has gained 85 kilos. "I can understand people are saying this kind of weight-gain is suspect, but I categorically deny any usage of these substances. Getting large using drugs and getting large doing keiko are two entirely different things!", said Hakuhou. Asked about the proposed punishment of taking away a yusho from a positive-testing winner, he said: "I don't really think about that since I don't use anything, but what worries me is what will happen if I test positive anyway.. what do I do then??"

Tomorrow, it's Asashouryuu's Takasago Ichimon's turn.

Looking worried:

Edited February 14, 2008 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 18,786]

I must admit that reading these developments, I think I'm not too thrilled about seeing the international anti-doping guidelines enacted 100% in ozumo. I'm all for getting steroids and related substances out of it, but ephedrine and other stimulants seem a bit like overkill...this isn't like in e.g. athletics and cross-country skiing where certain events (world championships, Olympics, etc.) have a significantly higher stature than the rest of the competition year and so getting hopped up on stimulants for a short time might yield disproportionally valuable results. Sumo is a lot more spread out with its 42/90 bouts each year and nearly every bout has the same effect on your career standing. Sure, it's still possible that somebody might buzz himself to a juryo promotion or the like, but that's pretty much self-correcting in sumo.

If there are continual abusers of stimulants (and I wouldn't be surprised if sumo only has a token couple of those, if at all), I'd certainly like to see those caught, but I'm not sure I want to see the same level of punishment as for the anabolic stuff, as the international bodies do.

[aderechelsea 124]

i predict a period of many injuries for lots and lots of rikishi. Some will take advantage of this situation a but after a year or so we'll get back to normal life.

Moreover if we "manage" to drop the weight on rikishi a bit then more exciting sumo is on our way.

in general i am still skeptical but i have the patience to "wait and see".

[Kaikitsune Makoto 203]

This is soooooo intriguing stuff. Takanohana's comment about roids were particularly interesting, if not for content, for the fact that I'd bet my life on that he was very juiced up. Hakuho's comments are just like every athlete's when questioned about this. In every aspect, this will be very interesting. Even much more so as many oyakata have been active at a time when roids and stuff were basically allowed in many other sports and hard to imagine they wouldn't have been in sumo.

Is this the biggest and most flagrant group "we are innocent"-hypocracy building up or am I and others who believe in wide spread roid abuse really wrong? Once more..the fact that needs to be emphasized is that Kyokai is full of roid users and these users and now contemplating whether testing would be good. To me that is so hilarious in a bit gloomy way that it is simply stunning.

We shall see indeed.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

the fact that needs to be emphasized is that Kyokai is full of roid users and these users and now contemplating whether testing would be good. To me that is so hilarious in a bit gloomy way that it is simply stunning.

We shall see indeed.

So, if they do decide categorically and fully to go ahead with this, what does that mean? That all the old "users" have decided to repent and not allow the next generation to make the same mistakes they did, or that this whole theory of widespread roid abuse is just a figment of your imagination??

I vote number two, in both senses of the saying..

We shall see..

[Gusoyama 95]

"We are targeting the yusho and sansho winners . The yusho winner will have time to adjust his mage, then he will take the test, and then, if all is well, go out for the presentation ceremony", said Mr. Oonishi, stressing the "forget about that short celebration bath" part.

Surely a result can't be found that quickly, can it?

And I think that Hakuho's comments point towards him being innocent.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Even more worried:

[Kintamayama 44,354]

The last lecture was held today for Takasago Ichimon. Asashouryuu seemed very interested, while Takasago Oyakata specifically asked about the legality of "garlic injections"* Asa likes to take when he gets the flu or a cold, which happens about every other day. It apparently will be illegal. "But it's like a dose of vitamins..", muttered people loudly. Mr. Oonishi explained the situation in detail, giving as an example a hammer thrower in the Olympics in Athens who was disqualified for using an illegal substance. Then Asa himself took the mike and explained in detail about this case as well. "The Yokozuna was really into the discussion today!", said an enthusiastic Mr. Oonishi. "In sumo one strengthens one's body by doing keiko and eating chanko. Chanko is better than medicine!", declared Asashouryuu.

* In reality, there is no garlic in garlic injections. They are used against fatigue and colds.They actually contain vitamin B. They smell like garlic, hence the name. Vitamin B can be taken in food and supplements as well, but it kicks in quicker when injected, so athletes prefer it.

Asa:"Pretty good dinner last night , huh?"

Lecturer in background who looks a lot like Sadogatake Oyakata: "Oh, maybe the Yokozuna can share with us what it is that's so funny so we could ALL have a laugh??"

Edited February 15, 2008 by Kintamayama