Kotoku 0 Posted August 29, 2007 (edited) This is just a fan's take. You are free to disagree, no problem. To me, Asa is being singled out for a trivial mistake. Playing soccer in a charity tourney is in itself no biggie. So the kyokai gets it's shorts in a bunch and progessively makes his life worse. Doesn't make much sense even in Japan. Asa is a family man, he wants to be with his wife and kids, jungyo or no. I think it would be very hard to say he is not a great yokozuna. So great, that he could break most of the existing records for wins, etc., and on his own terms. I think that is what sticks in the craw of a lot of the old farts in the association. The same as Randy Bass was prevented from breaking Saduharu Oh's home run record by the man himself, there might be a significant group of oyakata who would rather eat swiss cheese than to see that Asa's name in the record books. So they screw with his head, ignore his homesickness and make him out as a no-class act. Taka taking a fall for his brother in the playoffs was a no class act in my book. For the record, I think Asa is the best thing in the current sumo world. Unlike Waka, Taka, Akebono, Musashimaru, the other guy I forget Asanofuji izzatit? -L- -- Asashoryu is in the same ranks as Chio and the current rijicho. The Aki Basho is worthless to me, since he won't be there. Hakuho will suck up to the guys in the suits. I find his sumo boring -- Takanohana III -- B-O-R-I-N-G. There is no one else on the banzuke with any fire. YMMV... Edited August 29, 2007 by Kotoku Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,117 Posted August 29, 2007 This is just a fan's take. You are free to disagree, no problem. The Aki Basho is worthless to me, since he won't be there. Hakuho will suck up to the guys in the suits. I find his sumo boring -- Takanohana III -- B-O-R-I-N-G. There is no one else on the banzuke with any fire. YMMV... I'm afraid the next few years are going to be quite worthless for you, then.. I disagree with almost everything you wrote, but it has all been said and repeated and treaded ad nausea, so I'll move along, shall I? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted August 29, 2007 Ironic to compare with Kitanoumi who really must be one of the most boring dominants of all time. Every match looked the same... Just because a person is good doesn't make him indispensable. Or fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilovesumo 12 Posted August 29, 2007 Maybe it is just me, but I am tired of it. I, as we all, love Sumo... and this mess- the whole matter- is just awful. It hurts . I believe in Sumo... it's pride and power but my years of dreaming are over,learning more about it, about Japan, about life in general-getting older. It was a good learning experience, but now it's an overload...the discussion became a fight...a mess as well... @ Kotoku How can one man (who ever) be the best "thing" in the sumo world? There are so many things...search for them. How can a Basho, were so many guys fight for their life-dreams in blood, sweat and tears be worthless? So a Gyoji, Yobidashi, Tokoyama, Rikishi, Oyakata, -everybody is worthless then? It's a dream for many poeple, just buying the ticket there...from one like former Kotonishiki...I damn shit myself... It is not worthless. NO WAY! The situation is just sad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,969 Posted August 30, 2007 Playing soccer in a charity tourney is in itself no biggie....Asa is a family man, he wants to be with his wife and kids, jungyo or no. QFI... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hananotaka 8 Posted August 30, 2007 Playing soccer in a charity tourney is in itself no biggie....Asa is a family man, he wants to be with his wife and kids, jungyo or no. QFI... Quoted For Insanity? Quid Fuccere Id? Qualit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Manekineko 200 Posted August 30, 2007 (edited) At least Yubi's back. (Dancing of joy...) I understand this affair may throw off many fans from sumo - fans who care only for Asashoryu. As I was never a one-man-fan type, I can't sympathize with that point of view, but I can understand it. It's just like all the football fans here in Croatia that became ardent Janica Kostelić fans although they didn't care about skiing at all - they just wanted to idolize a born winner. So when she decided to retire and enjoy herself after winning everything imaginable, they threw a tantrum and asked her to reconsider for their sake. For all that (thanks to Janica, I imagine) we now have a decent women's skiing team that could do with fans' support... But they "only" come in among first 15, and win maybe once a season. That's so B-O-R-I-N-G. Edited August 30, 2007 by Manekineko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
troutbum 0 Posted August 30, 2007 Maybe it is just me, but I am tired of it.I, as we all, love Sumo... and this mess- the whole matter- is just awful. It hurts . I believe in Sumo... it's pride and power but my years of dreaming are over,learning more about it, about Japan, about life in general-getting older. It was a good learning experience, but now it's an overload...the discussion became a fight...a mess as well... @ Kotoku How can one man (who ever) be the best "thing" in the sumo world? There are so many things...search for them. How can a Basho, were so many guys fight for their life-dreams in blood, sweat and tears be worthless? So a Gyoji, Yobidashi, Tokoyama, Rikishi, Oyakata, -everybody is worthless then? It's a dream for many poeple, just buying the ticket there...from one like former Kotonishiki...I damn shit myself... It is not worthless. NO WAY! The situation is just sad. For me as a sumo fan the next 2 tournaments are just not the same with the top dog not there, the exitement missing. Now for me sumo is a sport like any other sport and I like to watch it, I dont care about the bushido or shinto bullshit a lot of people here on the forum associate it with. Its a dream to buy a ticket, what is that supposed to mean. I bought quite a few sumo tickets in the past and it was fun but not any more, this media pushed scandel initiated by some old farts in the sumo organization whose Alzeimer desease seems to have already substantialy progressed makes sumo at least for the time being suck for quite a lot of people not only me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,117 Posted August 30, 2007 I bought quite a few sumo tickets in the past and it was fun but not any more, this media pushed scandel initiated by some old farts in the sumo organization whose Alzeimer desease seems to have already substantialy progressed makes sumo at least for the time being suck for quite a lot of people not only me. I suggest you try some other sport "for the time being", and take "the quite a lot of people" with you. See you in four months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilovesumo 12 Posted August 30, 2007 For me as a sumo fan the next 2 tournaments are just not the same with the top dog not there, the exitement missing.Now for me sumo is a sport like any other sport and I like to watch it, I dont care about the bushido or shinto bullshit a lot of people here on the forum associate it with. Its a dream to buy a ticket, what is that supposed to mean. I bought quite a few sumo tickets in the past and it was fun but not any more, this media pushed scandel initiated by some old farts in the sumo organization whose Alzeimer desease seems to have already substantialy progressed makes sumo at least for the time being suck for quite a lot of people not only me. (Dancing of joy...) ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,320 Posted August 30, 2007 As I was never a one-man-fan type, I can't sympathize with that point of view, but I can understand it. It's just like all the football fans here in Croatia that became ardent Janica Kostelić fans although they didn't care about skiing at all - they just wanted to idolize a born winner. Bingo. I tend to find such fans incredibly annoying, across all sports, but not because the mindset is annoying per se - it's only annoying when they act as though their tenuous and lukewarm support of the sport ought to dictate what happens in the long term. Face it, guys, if it's not just all posturing on your part and you really are gonna quit following sumo after Asashoryu's tenure (as several of you have said or implied during this mess), why should anybody in the Kyokai take your opinion into account for their decision-making? Even without these problems Asashoryu would be unlikely to stick around for more than another three or four years. The Kyokai has got bigger things to worry about than temporarily ticking off a small-but-vocal minority who's already promised to bolt in the near future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoku 0 Posted August 30, 2007 Interesting how some of you make it so personal, when you see something you disagree with. If the Yankees were banned from baseball for a season or two, wonder what that would do for the American league? Or -- and I know squat about soccer aka Football -- if Chelsea was kicked out of the Premier League for a season, how would fans feel? Ronaldino out because he went home to be with his wife and family in Brazil? The concept of ijime does not cross Japan's borders very well. And for a macho guy like Asashoryu, I'm sure it does not translate at all. If they lose him, if he says screw it, I have all I need for my life as of now, the kyokai will have really messed up with their heavy handed reaction. Most of the members of the sumo association have little or no experienc in marketing, fan development or promotion of their sport. Hence the abysmal attendence in recent years. Until the 90s, jungyo was a very local thing, with the rikishi often staying at shrines and temples, making and eating chanko, etc. There was no J-League to compete with, K-1 was just beginning. These days, as one retired veteran put it, jungyo is more a barnstorming tour, with hotels and hot dogs being the room and board. And the fan base is withering away, because there are no standout rikishi. Anyone here watch Tasugari Sebei -- think that's the romanji? This is the story of the remaining samurai culture in the bakumatsu jidai. Looks a lot like sumo hese days, with Asashoryu being the hero. Again, YMMV. I have no need to flame you, so why don't some of you relax? Have a nice day, watch the Kyojin tank, eat some natto and be happy to be alive... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,117 Posted August 30, 2007 (edited) Interesting how some of you make it so personal, when you see something you disagree with. If the Yankees were banned from baseball for a season or two, wonder what that would do for the American league? Or -- and I know squat about soccer aka Football -- if Chelsea was kicked out of the Premier League for a season, how would fans feel? Ronaldino out because he went home to be with his wife and family in Brazil? I might be pissed about all that, but I would never say this football season is going to be boring because Ronaldinio is gone, if I were a true football fan. And if I had some beef and was truly pissed, I just won't watch it anymore. That's the point, nothing else. I'm not taking anything personally. It's really simple-you don't like what's happening and say you are going to be bored? Why watch?? Why take interest? Just turn your back on it. If you are into a sport solely because of one person, you're not into the sport-you're into the man. Big difference here.. And finally, nothing is personal. Just getting annoyed much quicker than usual. Anyone who gets offended by me knows what to do. Just ignore me. As for the fanbase withering, it's simply not true. If anything, sales are up these last few bashos. It's factually incorrect. Edited August 30, 2007 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoku 0 Posted August 30, 2007 (edited) For those that don't know, Kin-chan had a "health" incident recently, and deserves our prayers.:- ) Seriously... Yeah, a few more in the seats recently, in large part I think because there are/were two yokozuna. But compared to the 90s, sumo is still in the tank. I well remember the manin onrei -- I HATE romanji -- count in the old days... -L- Edited August 30, 2007 by Kotoku Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonosuke 28 Posted August 30, 2007 (edited) You know Asashoryu is just like a drug. You hate to get into it but you really can't once you get in. We all have a thing or two to say about him (well some have more than a few words). Without him things can get boring but don't we love sumo for its own sake? If Asashoryu moves to professional wrestling, do you follow him there and give up watching sumo. Then what is the point of expressing your view on sumo? Or the Kyokai? Or other rikishi? Your time and his active time in Ozumo will be brief and your future interest in sumo will be none, you are just passing through, you are a transient guest, never to come back again. We all had a basho or two when Asashoryu wasn't around. Did we stop watching the basho then or losing complete interest? The fact that you are still alll here means that really wasn't the case. You really haven't gone away because Asashoryu happened to have missed a basho. So now he will miss at least two, but I doubt you disappear either fortunately or unfortunately. If anyone is expecting Ozumo to be a pure sport, just watch it for the sake of it and check bouts and only concern about who wins or loses. Actually it saves a lot of time doing it that way as you can skip the shikiri, dohyo-iri, mono-ii and can even ignore gyoji and yobidashi. Why go see a basho live and waste all your time and try to remember rikishi's shikona? Whether you like it or not, Ozumo is all of that and more. Without them you are missing the essence but you've lived without them, you can keep going on living without glimpsing its transcendental beauty. You can always choose to live a life separating your own body from your mind. Or choose to live spiritually, in harmony. As it is with life as in Ozumo. Edited August 30, 2007 by Jonosuke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hananotaka 8 Posted August 30, 2007 Yeah, a few more in the seats recently, in large part I think because there are/were two yokozuna. But compared to the 90s, sumo is still in the tank. I well remember the manin onrei -- I HATE romanji -- count in the old days... -L- How do you feel about romaji? (Look carefully...) It's certainly true that sumo is down from it's Waka/Taka heyday. But peaks and valleys are to be expected. The Waka/Taka boom was just that: a boom-time. It was never going to be able to sustain that kind interest. There was a market correction, as it were, and now sumo's climbing back up again. Rivalries (hasn't been much of that) and good sumo (hasn't been much of that, either) will bring in the fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoku 0 Posted August 30, 2007 See, and I hate speling too -- in any language... -L- Good thoughts here. I have stopped watching most pro sports in the USA, prefer instead to go watch the high school kids and college guys play when I'm in the states. But sumo... alas. I think the Waka/Taka thing is a bit different. Until the 21st Century, Japan was Baseball/Sumo, with the occasional woman marathon runner or a popular golfer. But I think that J-League and K-1 have really put the hurt on sumo. I know there are ebbs and peaks, but I think that this more of a loss of interest than an ebb. YMMV, no problem, I'm just a fan B.S-ing with other fans, no more, no less... :- ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peterao 3 Posted August 30, 2007 You can always choose to live a life separating your own body from your mind. Man, please tell me how to do that...I've been trying for years! ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaiguma 0 Posted August 30, 2007 Playing soccer in a charity tourney is in itself no biggie....Asa is a family man, he wants to be with his wife and kids, jungyo or no. QFI... Quoted For Insanity? Quid Fuccere Id? Qualit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yangnomazuma 79 Posted August 30, 2007 someone spoke earlier about not watching sumo if Asashoryu were to quit. It further processed to other sports and other stars. To this whole business I say BS. Back a few years in the USA, Major League Baseball went through a series of strikes and work stoppages. Many "fans" of the game of baseball said "I won't watch baseball any longer...this strike business has turned me off. The players are too greedy and I can't stomach the game anymore." Real fans, on the other hand, watched baseball. They watched kids, teenagers, college, and minor league baseball and they enjoyed it. The GAME of baseball is well worth it, no matter who is playing. I am a fan of BASEBALL, not the players. I follow many players closely, but my devotion is to the game. Back to SUMO, I say that if you choose not to watch sumo because Asashoryu or Dejima were no longer there, then you were never a fan of SUMO, but a fan of Asashoryu and/or Dejima. Is there a place in sumo for fans such as this? Sure there is. However, your understanding or appreciation of SUMO would seem to be degraded. My point is simply that there is quite a large difference between being a fan of SUMO and being a fan of SUMOTORI. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sasanishiki 57 Posted August 31, 2007 Hmmm, if fans who like Asa so much, seemingly more than sumo itself, are talking about not watching the next basho, does this mean they would also leave once he retires for good (whenever that may be)? If anything, I quite like watching sumo without Asashoryu because it evens up some of the odds for the other competitors. Yes, perhaps the quality is down, but maybe the competition will go up, therefor creating more interesting match-ups and scenarios in the next two basho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peterao 3 Posted August 31, 2007 someone spoke earlier about not watching sumo if Asashoryu were to quit. It further processed to other sports and other stars. To this whole business I say BS.Back a few years in the USA, Major League Baseball went through a series of strikes and work stoppages. Many "fans" of the game of baseball said "I won't watch baseball any longer...this strike business has turned me off. The players are too greedy and I can't stomach the game anymore." Real fans, on the other hand, watched baseball. They watched kids, teenagers, college, and minor league baseball and they enjoyed it. The GAME of baseball is well worth it, no matter who is playing. I am a fan of BASEBALL, not the players. I follow many players closely, but my devotion is to the game. Actually, the institution of Major League Baseball was all but saved by a single individual: Cal Ripken, and his pursuit of the all time consecutive games played record. So one individual did have a major impact...just as Asashoryu could have a major impact on the NSK (but ultimately, IMHO, won't, with him being a foreigner and all...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sekitori 492 Posted August 31, 2007 Hmmm, if fans who like Asa so much, seemingly more than sumo itself, are talking about not watching the next basho, does this mean they would also leave once he retires for good (whenever that may be)? If anything, I quite like watching sumo without Asashoryu because it evens up some of the odds for the other competitors. Yes, perhaps the quality is down, but maybe the competition will go up, therefor creating more interesting match-ups and scenarios in the next two basho. That statement makes a great deal of sense to me. When I first started following sumo, I enjoyed watching an extremely athletic but small rikishi. I didn't expect him to do very well because of his size, but I wanted to follow his career anyhow. He turned out to do pretty well--far better than I ever expected Chiyonofuji to do. He retired after 31 yushos and I thought that my interest in sumo would decrease because my favorite rikishi was no longer competing. But it didn't. Being a big fan of Chiyonofuji resulted in my becoming a big fan of sumo. I enjoyed watching Takanohana, Wakanohana, Akebono, Mushashimaru, and many other outstanding rikishis almost as much as I enjoyed following the career of Chiyonofuji. I was and still am a fan of Asashoryu, mainly because he reminds me so much of Chiyonofuji--at least on the dohyo. If senshuraku in Nagoya was the last time he ever competed, I would feel very sad but I also would be thankful to have witnessed his amazing career. Sumo is much bigger than any individual and I look forward to its future with or without Asashoryu. There's Ama, Homasho, Tochiozan, and many other talented rikishis to follow. I'm also very happy that Kotomitsuki finally has achieved so much success. I hope that Asashoryu will be part of that future but if he isn't, so be it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoku 0 Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) Pass the Guinness, this is getting interesting. I don't need a litmus test on my appreciation of sumo -- it is my first choice on the Japanese teevee. But face it, who is exciting in the top division? Or Juryo? I don't see a lot of great sumo. Some beer and squid snacks in my favorite hole in the wall, and I can assure you we could talk sumo all night. But like anything that is a mix of training, art, talent and hoodoo voodoo, a great rikishi is just awesome to watch. I just don't see much of that these days. I would go so far as to say that since the kyokai let the heya metasticize into a jillion tiny outfits, I don't think the level of competition at asa geiko is high enough for the deshi to really get to the top of their ability, but YMMV... Edited August 31, 2007 by Kotoku Share this post Link to post Share on other sites