JLPT -takers?

[Kaikitsune Makoto 189]

Annual JLPT day is still few months away but this time decided to take part. 2kyuu is the level I am going for. 1kyuu is still beyond reach as the difference to 2kyuu is so big. There should be some 1.5 kyuu certainly. Anyone else on sumoforum going to take part in JLPT this year? Ultimate goal is 1kyuu but for that I think longer stay in Japan is required. How many of the Japan based members have taken this test at some point? It is just a test but supposedly helps with the possibilities of proving one's language skills in case of working in Japan in Japanese environment but for that 1kyuu is a must. Publicized goal! 1kyuu in 2009 (2008 is too early). If I fail, I will pay 10 euros to each of the top 100 posters on forum at the day of the results.

Be well be well and love your kanji.

[Kotonosato 1]

How many of the Japan based members have taken this test at some point?

Many years ago I took 3kyuu. (You're welcome! (Laughing...) ) I can make oyaji gags, but my grammar is still lousy.)

I passed way back then, but I haven't studied at all since then. My kanji, grammar, and everything (except perhaps my listening skills) has been stagnating ever since. (Whistling...)

[Hashira 0]

Judging from what Japanese I've seen you use, Kaikitsune, you should be okay on level 2. good luck

I took 3 about 3 years ago, and 2 this past year. I didn't find a huge difference between the two, and I am also in the boat of needing a lot of improvement before making the jump to level one. I am thinking I will take one this year anyway, to get the feel of it (and with multiple choice, you never know when you might pass without knowing anything at all) and then hopefully pass it next year.

For me, the listening is always the easiest, and the kanji is always the hardest. I found the biggest difference between 3 and 2 was the grammar. i was stumped often.

[Sasanishiki 57]

I sat 2kyu way back in 1993 and passed (just). The thing that surprised me was that you had to get 60% to pass. Never had to face that before. I got 242 out of 400 to scrpae in by 0.5%! I've thought about doing it again but the first Sunday of Decemebr every year is the Grand Final of my sports league so I can never guarantee being free.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

I sat 2kyu way back in 1993 and passed (just). The thing that surprised me was that you had to get 60% to pass. Never had to face that before. I got 242 out of 400 to scrpae in by 0.5%! I've thought about doing it again but the first Sunday of Decemebr every year is the Grand Final of my sports league so I can never guarantee being free.

I understand the gap between 3-kyu and 2-kyu is greater than the gap between 2-kyu and 1-kyu. What seems to get a lot of people on the 1-kyu test is that pass is set at 70%, not 60% as in the lower three levels.

[James H 0]

How many of the Japan based members have taken this test at some point? It is just a test but supposedly helps with the possibilities of proving one's language skills in case of working in Japan in Japanese environment but for that 1kyuu is a must.

I passed 3kyu last year at the second attempt (first one failed when I found I had been studying 4kyu kanji a week before the test. doh)

In the DY office, 2kyu is the minimum for a proper translator, but for subbers and desk editors like me you can get away with nothing if it so pleases you. There is a Kiwi here who took 1kyu twice just to make sure the first time wasn't a fluke, but he is a sicko.

The main reason i am taking it is to make reporting sumo easier - there are always people around me who i can ask for help, but it is much nicer to be able to do it yourself, no?

[Kotonosato 1]

... there are always people around me who i can ask for help, but it is much nicer to be able to do it yourself, no?

Definitely! I think the most difficult aspect of living in a non English-speaking country is giving up the independence and power that come with a command of the language. Up with self-reliance!

Some day I'll find the time to study Japanese again. Until then I'll just have to rely on the kindness of strangers.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 189]

It may not have practical significance as such but it is one of the only measure one can think of when not living in Japan. Have been studying Japanese for 6 years more or less but never in university or language courses except the little we had at our university (elementary courses, 50 kanji and nobody could really talk anything after the 2 courses) but mainly just self-studying. It was a long winding road at first as the lack of Japanese exposure and lack of daily opportunities to use it with natives made it so that even during my first trip in Japan in 2005 I couldn't understand much anything. The longer stay of 1.5 months in Japan helped more but only during the last year or so I have noticed that I can read most articles about most topics reasonably well, kind of a breakthrough. 1100-1200 kanji has been perhaps a sort of threshold too, at least that is how it feels. Takes time to read articles in Japanese as part of the thrill is to draw every single brain cell along to try to remember some compound word before giving in and checking with Rikai-thingie. The funny part is that only after getting over the threshold I went into heavy duty mode and now listen and read as much Japanese as possible. Sometimes even 2 week breaks and satiation point is at times there and ability goes down due to "over conditioning" as in sports. Sensitization is important.

Talking Japanese on SKYPE is good, watching Miayzaki without subtitles is good, listening the 20 minutes new clip from NHK daily is good. Sumo tapes gave a wrong impression as that vocabulary is so familiar so when listening to for example news clips of political debates first, it was a hit against the face again how difficult it was. Japanese radio, Japanese movies...one of the best methods is to read articles from various topics like lung cancer, gasoline prices, election aftermath, molecular biology, sumoU, North-Korea "kakumondai". It makes it very challenging and sometimes crushing defeats come but like at butsukarigeiko, get up and get on with it!

I am totally in love with nihongo now. To a foreigner to learn all at least the 1945 required kanji (with the usages and compound words etc.) and become totally fluent in reading Japanese is a beautiful goal. I know how difficult it is though and how people living in Japan don't have the motivation nor time to devote to that so often but luckily I just love it. Remember how Sakke shouted YATTA! when he beat Shoryu some years ago? That kind of feeling is easily understood by me. Japanese is just a hobby and not prioritized but maybe that is exactly why it is so much fun and satisfying to get closer to the ultimate goal and to realise the work done has born fruit and given excellent basis to the future studies and refinements in this language.

Finnish and English are extremely boring languages compared to nihongo with all the kanji (In jonokuchi...)

Hopefully getting the chance to live fully in Japanese for at least 1 year will be the dream come true in this sense.

And you gotta love a sentence nakunaritakunakunatta kara nakidashiyasukunatta.

And you gotta love the kanji 罰　減　　　厳罰！

Don't be a torimaki.

[Kotonosato 1]

I am totally in love with nihongo now.

I thought you might also be in love with English.

How did you get so proficient? I assume English is not used in daily life in Finnland. Can you tell us a little about English education there?

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

It may not have practical significance as such but it is one of the only measure one can think of when not living in Japan.

There are some...

Edited August 9, 2007 by Otokonoyama
changed to better link

[Hananotaka 8]

Finally broke down and took 2-kyuu about 3 years ago. I had to drive all the way to Chicago for it, so I went with 2-kyuu (which I knew I could pass) rather than 1-kyuu (which I wasn't sure about). I passed with a 92%, so then I was kicking myself for not giving 1-kyuu a shot.

I really see where Nishinoshima is coming from. When I was living outside Japan I was often thinking about taking the test. But once you get here, and have the proficiency to communicate with everyone you meet, you suddenly lose the motivation. You don't really need the positive feedback from the test; you get it everyday. That said, I'm going to try and take 1-kyuu this year (if I ever get around to applying), just because it doesn't hurt to have on the resume. I'm also intrigued by the Nihongo Kentei.

[Itachi 343]

I find it difficult to retain my Japanese language skills when not living in Japan.

It was not difficult to prepare for 4kyu outside Japan and probably 3kyu would have been manageable (I wrote 3kyu in Japan) but after returning to Canada and becoming busy with other things, I could not build on what I had learned (nor even retain it).

I wrote 2kyu in Japan and scored ... I think it was 55% - not enough to pass. Then, I set my sights on 1kyu (I had already learned all the kanji but my grammar was weak) but a year after returning to Canada, I realized that even a second attempt at 2kyu would be futile.

One day I will be able to afford the time and energy to make a Canada based push for 2kyu or if I am very lucky, I will have another opportunity to live in Japan and make a serious run at the big one.

I still love kanji - especially the obscure ones, only now when I see them, they all look sort of familiar but I can't remember how to read them.

My portable electronic dictionaries keep dying on me (no, it's not the batteries) and that really took the wind out of my sails because I used them to review and discover new compounds all the time. Now when I see a word I can't quite remember, I have no immediate way of looking it up and so the learning opportunity is lost.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

And you gotta love the kanji 罰　減　　　厳罰！

Have you thought about the kanken?

[Kaikitsune Makoto 189]

[i assume English is not used in daily life in Finnland. Can you tell us a little about English education there?

Here was one thread about Finnish school system:

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=447

In general, nobody understands Finnish (except Estonians to some degree), nothing is dubbed in Finland (except some children's anime and even then always the original is shown too), English is the first foreign language for most and it starts on 3rd grade, at universities many textbooks used are written in English, net rules in Finland etc. I guess English is just "there" for the younger generations. Older working class generation doesn't really know English much.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 189]

And you gotta love the kanji 罰　減　　　厳罰！

Have you thought about the kanken?

I know about that but haven't thought about that yet. Japanese should be proud of their kanji. It is not so common to have such complex writing system that requires a lot of work to master. It is incomprehensible to me to read some comments about "Should the whole kanji system be abolished?". Japanese, Chinese, Korean should cherish their kanji and be proud of their languages.

[Kotonosato 1]

[i assume English is not used in daily life in Finnland. Can you tell us a little about English education there?

Here was one thread about Finnish school system:

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=447

Thanks for that. At the risk of reopening a long-dead thread, I'll move further questions over there.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 189]

I have a question for you Japan-based members. Many say that the problem is kanji and of course it is a big obstacle. Then again after living 3 years in Japan for example (not in military base) and having Japanese friends or work in Japanese, the vocabulary must be quite good. In that light a system of learning just 1-2 kanji per day would sound like a very achievable goal. Timewise it wouldn't take more than 20minutes max to choose a kanji, then think of the compound words you know that have that kanji (after checking some good kanji program where you can get the most used compound words with hiragana and hence you would see "Ah I know these words so this is the kanji here! moments) and draw it few times and memorize and play with it. My point is that due to your much better vocabulary skills compared to your kanji skills, you could get much out of this kind of system. Has anyone tried that or some similar one? How is it with you Japan-based members anyway, how many of you actively try to get better and better kanji knowledge so that you could read Japanese books, newspapers etc.? Time limitations exist of course but in 1 year you could get through 500 kanji without much time consuming effort and since you live in Japan you get massive exposure to kanji every day all the time, even in your dreams!

The system above would require self discipline of course but if you like the language and have 15 minutes per day, then why not...

Frankly, it is interesting that there are many people who can speak Japanese more or less fluently and understand it very well but have max 100-200 kanji knowledge but the natural explanation is that you can learn vocabulary, even grammar to some degree and listening comprehension without any spesific studying but you must study kanji to progress in that. I can understand that in a way when no intention to stay in Japan for longer time but there are people with Japanese wives and who have lived in Japan for 10 years and yet are not able to read a newspaper article. Kanji is not THAT difficult and I should know since my talent in memorizing and understanding shapes and figures is genuinely way below average.

[Asashosakari 16,974]

I believe the annual JLPT was this past weekend...so, did anybody take part? (Sigh...)

[Hashira 0]

i took the 1-kyuu in Toronto yesterday. Couldn't believe they didn't delay the start since we had a huge snowfall and ice falling from the sky, but i got there in time anyway. 1-kyuu is terrible. i thought i got about 60, but i was guessing often, so good luck will get me a pass i guess.

[Hananotaka 8]

Once again missed the deadline for application, as I am wont.

Kaikitsune - This will sound very non-intuitive, but forget about learning "kanji". Concentrate on learning words. Do a lot of reading, and if you want to be able to write by hand force yourself to do a lot of writing (letters, journal, etc.) But learning kanji in isolation is inefficient, and not terribly practical. Focus rather on words, and you'll find yourself having a much sounder, holistic grasp of kanji.

Also, the 1,945 常用漢字 is just an arbitrary list. There are kanji on there that are hardly ever used, and other frequently used kanji that aren't on the list.

[Manekineko 200]

[...] forget about learning "kanji". Concentrate on learning words.

That's the one thing I will never forgive our teacher of Japanese - he focused on kanji because they fascinated him, and a bit on grammar, which are both things you can learn easily by yourself once you know words and hearing/reading understanding of the language. He never drilled us in talking and very rarely in listening. Sigh. Well, at least the courses were for free the first two years (experimental program at the Uni) and I got to borrow Berusaiyu no bara in Japanese from his wife. (Neener, neener...)