Asa in hot water again?

[madorosumaru 7]

Veteran Mongolian rikishi Kyokutenho experienced "kinshin shobun" in May. He was ordered to one month of "confinement to quarters" for driving a car, a no-no for sumotori, and causing an accident. His advice to Asashoryu is to dedicate himself to keiko.

"It's really tough if you don't find something to do during "kinshin," he said. "I worked out in the mornings and evenings with the young guys."

His "house arrest" sentence was shorter than the yokozuna's four months. Still, "It felt like a long time," he said. Unlike Ryu's "Triple H," Tenho was allowed only the "Double H" of home and heya. So, he concerntrated on sumo. He got up an hour earlier than usual at six thirty in the morning and did keiko with the young fellows at the heya. In the evening, he would grab a shin-deshi, his prize pupil Kyokushuho, and worked out with him. During the day, he passed the time by watching the sumo telecast from one in the afternoon.

"Four months would be really tough," he said. "You know, he can go to the heya, so training would be the best bet. You have to do something or the time would pass ever so slowly."

[Kaikitsune Makoto 203]

More details about Asashoryu's mental condition. According to nikkansports, the yokozuna's mental state has deteriorated to the degree he is seeking psychiatric help next week.

As reported earlier, Ryu is so upset that he is taking tranquilizers. On Thursday afternoon, Takasago Oyakata received a call from Ryu's manager, "The yokozuna is talking about retiring. Where are you right now?" The shisho answered, "I am at the Kyokai. Tell him I'll be right over." However, a short while later, Ryu called himself, "I'm sorry about the earlier call. I will continue to gambarize."

Discussing intai with one's shisho is a serious matter unlike unburdening with friends or supporters. Once the shisho turns in the retirement notice, there is no turning back. Takasago said, "Mentally, he is in a very unstable state. I am going to find a psychiatrist for him to see immediately. I will make him start treatment next week."

Asashoryu had showed signs of breaking down even before the punishment was meted. During the night, he would burst out crying. When he stopped, he would suddenly start yelling in anger. Once he heard about the severity of the punishment, his condition got worse. Last night, he called his parents in Mongolia and talked about quitting, but soon after, he called again to say he would remain active and do his best.

Perhaps, because he doesn't want his family to see him in this state, he has sent his wife and two children back home to Mongolia. On Thursday, he had his tsukebito go out for take-out and shared his meals with his manager and his cousin, who cooked up some Mongolian food. A friend who visited him later said, "[The yokozuna] would look at his image on the television and start weeping silently."

On Friday, Ryu's physician, Dr. Hiraishi, will report on the condition of his injuries at the NSK. At that time, Takasago Oyakata is going to ask Dr. Hiraishi for a referral to a good psychiatrist.

It is difficult to imagine why oyakata and his friends would publish these kind of details of Shoryu's mental state. Maybe they are thinking that this shows Shoryu is really hurt due to the punishment and draw sympathy. It just looks like Shoryu is like a teenage girl on house arrest or even more like personality disorder patient whose ego is huge and who never understands something could be done to stop HIM from doing whatever he pleases. Nightly attacks of rage and crying too, geeez... In any case Takasago oyakata seems dumber and dumber by the days. As if his mental capacity isn't at all equipped to deal with this kind of situation. Maybe he even talks about the details of psychiatric consultation, or maybe that goes under confediality between patient and doctor though. Someone should hide Takasago oyakata somewhere now and someone should take the diazepam (or so) off from Shoryu. Good thing he sent his family away to safety.

[Asashosakari 18,647]

Veteran Mongolian rikishi Kyokutenho experienced "kinshin shobun" in May. He was ordered to one month of "confinement to quarters" for driving a car, a no-no for sumotori, and causing an accident. His advice to Asashoryu is to dedicate himself to keiko.

"It's really tough if you don't find something to do during "kinshin," he said. "I worked out in the mornings and evenings with the young guys."

His "house arrest" sentence was shorter than the yokozuna's four months. Still, "It felt like a long time," he said. Unlike Ryu's "Triple H," Tenho was allowed only the "Double H" of home and heya. So, he concerntrated on sumo. He got up an hour earlier than usual at six thirty in the morning and did keiko with the young fellows at the heya. In the evening, he would grab a shin-deshi, his prize pupil Kyokushuho, and worked out with him. During the day, he passed the time by watching the sumo telecast from one in the afternoon.

Hmm. For better or worse, Asashoryu obviously isn't as communally-minded as Tenho, so I wonder if that approach would work for him. (And solo keiko all day long probably isn't the answer either.) I'm not sure I'd want to be a lower-ranker in Takasago-beya right now...

On the other hand, it would be ironic if the next four months result in achieving something like inner peace for Shoryu and he'll be able to channel his fire onto his dohyo performances only when he returns...

Out of curiosity: Americans (in particular, though not exclusively among Westerners) generally love bad-guys-turned-good; would the same dynamic be possible in Japan, i.e. Shoryu becoming a fan favourite if he truly changes his ways, or is the best he can hope for now a level of considered respectability?

Edit: And I agree with Kaikitsune, it's amazing what intimate details seem to be leaking to the press right now. (Nodding yes...)

Edited August 3, 2007 by Asashosakari

[Kotonosato 1]

And I agree with Kaikitsune, it's amazing what intimate details seem to be leaking to the press right now. (Nodding yes...)

Leak implies that they didn't want to have it go public. I'd say this was as intentional as can be, just like the elbow surgery story. I'd say they are trying to garner sympathy.

I love this icon by the way. :-/ It's definitely Asashoryu. I just can't tell if it's before or after the medication.

[Peterao 3]

Out of curiosity: Americans (in particular, though not exclusively among Westerners) generally love bad-guys-turned-good; would the same dynamic be possible in Japan, i.e. Shoryu becoming a fan favourite if he truly changes his ways, or is the best he can hope for now a level of considered respectability?

If enough time passes, and people believe that his remorse and change of heart is genuine, I don't see why he cannot regain the admiration of some fans he has lost. It happened to an extent with Konishiki, though he had a bit of an underdog undercurrent going with him towards the end, that you really can't have as a yokozuna.

Imagine what happens if you drop a piece of fine china. If you work really hard, you can glue it back together, and maybe even use it again. But it will always be fragile, and it will never be as good as it was before you dropped it. Well, for Asashoryu, that china stands for the respect of the Japanese fans. And if he works very hard, he may get it back again. But it will be full of visible cracks and blemishes, never as good as it was before he broke it with his selfish, stupid act.

[madorosumaru 7]

And I agree with Kaikitsune, it's amazing what intimate details seem to be leaking to the press right now. (Nodding yes...)

I believe there is method to Takasago's madness. We have to remember that there are two aspects to this whole situation. First, there is the matter of Asashoryu having done wrong and deserving punishment. Second, there is the matter of the severity of punishment. The first part is clear and few would argue that. But the second could be considered controversial.

The severity of the penalty came as a surprise to many people. Sure, the jungyo department was out for the kill but there was a kind of feeding frenzy out there among the public that grew by the day, fanned by the press. Typical was the film clip of the news program posted in this thread where the reporters piled on about the "faked injury" accusation. At the airport, the media was yelling "questions" to Ryu, "Did you enjoy the soccer?" "Was it worth it?" They interviewed average folks, who one after another would complain about how Ryu offended the Japanese public. These were the kind of people who, as some forum members have asserted, couldn't name three makuuchi rikishi.

Kitanoumi Rijicho favored a more lenient punishment. The overwhelming public outcry made that impossible.

Those pro and anti Asashoryu all believe he will not be able to tolerate four months' of kinshin. Something has to be done. Remember now that Takasago is the PR Director of the Kyokai. He is no dummy about public sentiments and how to manipulate them. Already there are talks that the punishment was too severe. Kyokai people are now saying it is difficult to draw the line on what he can or cannot do under kinshin.

Kyokai wanted to punish the yokozuna for his accummulated past indiscretions. They did not intend to humiliate him to this degree. And as many have brought up, forcing the yokozuna to retire would be cutting off the nose to spite the face. On the day of the announcement, a poll indicated that over 90% felt the punishment was fair or even lax. The numbers did not change the next day. A few minutes ago, I checked again and "Too severe" has gone up from 7% to 10% and "No punishment needed" is up from 4% to 5%. Not very much but these "intimate details" have only been out less than a day.

I believe Takasago knows what he is doing. If the public opinion changes, the kinshin part of the penalty may be lessened either in length or in activities that are proscribed. The reduction in pay and the suspension will stand but that can be tolerated. It's the four-months "grounding" that Takasago is worried about.

[paolo 0]

I was away for some days and so I missed the evolution of the whole story while it was going on, but I still do not understand. Can somebody help me clarify the following points ?

1. Asashoryu has the results of a health exam which says he has a back microfracture and problems with his left elbow. He asks to be exempted from taking part to the following exhibition basho. Did the Kyokai object to that ? As far as I know the answer is NO.

2. Asashoryu goes to Mongolia. Did he have any problems with this ? As far as I know the answer is NO.

This is certainly not the first time he flies home after a basho !

So far, so good ? I mean: if everything had stopped here, would have there been any problems ? Would Asashoryu have been scolded, punished or whatever ? Does anybody see a reason for that ?

Can anybody answer YES ?

3. Asashoryu is obviously a prominent person in Mongolia. He is asked by his government to attend a charity soccer match with children. May I repeat this ? "Charity" and "Children". After initial refusal, he even plays. What kind of game is it ? It can easily be seen from the movie on Youtube...

All that I can say is that he could have been cunning enough as to ask a permission to the Kyokai, or, even better, to make Mongolian government ask the permission to the Kyokai ! Would have then the Kyokai answered NO to Mongolian government ?

Anyway, saying that he must be lying about his back and his elbow since he played that game is ridiculous. The doctors said that the problems (big problems) are there. The Kyokai accepted that. And if you can fight and WIN a sumo basho with that pain and problems, you certainly can play a charity children soccer game.

Now he is a criminal. The dignity of the yokozuna role is jeopardized. He should be sent off sumo. What else ? It's funny: I personally find that, in nowadays world, taking part in that kind of charity activities even adds dignity to the role of a prominent "sportsman" who could march among the crowd like a God

and chooses instead to engage himself to help other people. But the only answer that I get to this is that I am not a Japanese....

[Jakusotsu 5,721]

Reading paolo's post above (who still didn't get the point despite having been clarified for countless times now), a hypothetical question formed in my mind:

What if Asashoryu called the NSK from Mongolia and told them he changed his mind and would actually attend the jungyo before playing soccer? That might have wrinkled a few foreheads, but wouldn't it have been the only course of action to neither offend the NSK nor the Mongolian government?

Purely academical now of course...

[paolo 0]

Reading paolo's post above (who still didn't get the point despite having been clarified for countless times now),

Mmmmhhh.... I must be a bit dumb and I certainly still do not get the point, but I think that the matter must be somewhat far from being clarified, if this topic is now at the 9th page and the discussion is still going on....

[Chiyozakura 128]

But the only answer that I get to this is that I am not a Japanese....

You do not get the point. Asashoryu sent a doctor's notice that he is unable to join the Jugyo. Even kyujo Yokozuna usually join and do the dohyo-iri. On Jungyo rikishi go to places far away from hon-basho areas to perform in front of fans that would have no chance to see sumo live otherwise. These tours are an essential part of sumo and the Yokozuna are the stars, that everybody wants to see. By not attending a Yokozuna damages the NSK as it leaves the local promoters and the fans without one of the main attractions. If he is severely injured it is accepted, though. But by playing football he showed that his condition was everthing but too bad to at least perform the dohyo-iri. This proves he chose to rather do what he wants than to fulfill his duties as a Yokozuna. It was a statement to the local fans that he has no interest in performing for them but to prefer his own interests. This is unaccaptable, even for European standards. Imagine you pay a lot of money to meet your favorite football players. You take your children to have a photo of them with their favourite stars. Then those stars state that they are too injured to even appear and write autographs and the next day you see them happily do sumo on TV.

[ilovesumo 12]

Out of curiosity: Americans (in particular, though not exclusively among Westerners) generally love bad-guys-turned-good; would the same dynamic be possible in Japan,

You took the post right out of my mouse!

Something has surprised me the last few days. I'm always talking with a range of people of all ages about sumo. Asashoryu has never been popular with the Japanese. There is just no way around that fact. His lack of hinkaku has hurt him and winning yusho after yusho made no dent in the dislike. If anything it may have contributed to it.

Anyway I have been asking students this week if they think Asashoryu would stick it out or quit sumo. The replies were 100% along the lines of "I hope he stays". I had imagined people would have been happy to get rid of him but of course upon mature reflection this is not the Japanese way of thinking. Just look at Roho getting bigger applause after his suspension.

Part of the reason for Asashoryu's lack of popularity may stem from the fact that no matter what he did he got away scot free. Now the opposite is the case. The kyokai have come down on him like a ton of bricks.

This is his chance for redemption. This is his challenge. Everyone knows he can rise to the occasion on the dohyo but in a sense that was always easy for him. Considering his personality and the severity of the punishment if he sticks it out, keeps his head down, helps the young rikishi at Takasago and comes back in Hatsu humble he will have shown true fighting spirit and will be wildly more popular than at any stage of his career so far.

Konishiki was popular when he bravely fought against seriously injury and hung on at the end of his career. No one liked him when he was barging to the top. Japanese love the underdog, or the man who fights against overwhelming odds. The result is of secondary importance.

If Asashoryu bolts he will be considered weak and worthy of contempt. If he can handle everything and come back with the right attitude he will be a hero. Takasago releasing the information makes sense now as it's just reinforcing the difficulty of the battle that Asashoryu faces in the minds of the public.

I really think that from now till Hatsu is the first time Asashoryu has the majority of people in Japan hoping he can succeed and willing him on.

(Nodding yes...)

[madorosumaru 7]

Dr. Hiraishi, Asashoryu's primary physician, reported on the yokozuna's condition to Takasago Oyakata on Friday. "His elbow and lower back are recovering faster than expected," said the doctor. "He should be able to do light shiko by month's end."

According to Dr. Hiraishi, Ryu is lamenting, "Why is everybody picking on me." The horde of reporters gathered in front of his home is "causing him quite a bit of stress." Additionally, he said, "[Asashoryu] is rueful [of what happened in Mongolia], but he feels he only did it for his country and the children. He is still confused by the extent of the uproar and the severity of the penalty and is using barbiturates to get to sleep."

Takasago Oyakata said, "If I go to the yokozuna's house, it would add to the brouhaha. When he gets into a more settled condition, I will talk to him directly and perhaps even hold a press conference."

Separately, Ryu's manager told the press that "The yokozuna is eating things like soup. Mostly, he is just sleeping." On Friday, he was visited by friend(s) from the horse racing world.

Meanwhile, what is the status of the poll? I mentioned earlier that "Too severe" and "No punishment needed" had risen to 10% and 5% respectively. Those numbers are the same, but the "Too lax" vote which was at 67% the first few days is now down to 58%. Slowly, the public anger is subsiding and there is a germ of sympathy for the yokozuna.

[madorosumaru 7]

After reporting to Takasago Oyakata in the afternoon, Dr. Hiraishi made a house call to Asashoryu later that night. He told the press that he was worried. "[since the yokozuna's return from Mongolia on the 30th], this is the most depressed state he has been in. He is just moping around the house and the sleeping pills are not helping him [that much]. I feel it would be best to send him home to Mongolia as soon as possible."

When the doctor saw Ryu that night, the yokozuna remained expressionless and did not answer when he tried to talk to him. "He would just stare at a soundless television with a blanket over him."

As for consulting a psychiatrist, the doctor said, "When the reason for the psychological shock is abundantly clear, rather than relying on anti-depressants or anti-anxiety drugs, it would be better to let him go home to Mongolia, where his family is, to heal his emotional wounds." He is going to call Takasago Oyakata on the 4th to suggest that [again].

The doctor added, "He still has the desire to gambarize. In the past, he has healed a lot of physical wounds in Mongolia. I feel we should give him the best environment to get better. I have already told the Kyokai about [my feelings]."

Kitanoumi Rijicho was briefed by Takasago Oyakata about the earlier progress report. "We have to give proper value to the opinion of the doctor," he said afterwards. According to the Mainichi, it is now a real possibility that the kinshin restrictions would be amended to allow a trip back to Mongolia.

There is, indeed, method to Takasago's "madness."

Ryu's very distinguished-looking doctor.

Will he be able to save the yokozuna?

Edited August 4, 2007 by madorosumaru

[Jonosuke 28]

Since I am in Japan and being bombarded daily by papers and Tv on Asashoryu's state of mind, I am beginnng to think how he can recover mentally. Obviously he is in no condition to train behaving more or less like a dead man not walking.

Almost everyone I talked to feel he should retire. Two basho penalty is not actually a penalty like that of Kyokutenho. When non yokozuna goes on kyujo, he pays it for by not only not having a normal salary coming in but more importantly by losing his banzuke ranking. In case of a yokozuna he won't lose the ranking. But for that he is expected to contribute and be involved in the basho yusho race. He is expected to win. In an almost unprecedent move, the Kyokai is telling a yokozuna not to win, not even bother to show up.

For most people, it is actually a request for him to retire. Asashoryu likely thought of retiring himself but right now his state of mind is too fluid to state one way or another. If he does not reitre now, it will forever be talked about every time he does something. He must battle that talk every time it happens. Does he have any energy left to do so? His dream of becoming a Dai yokozuna is pretty washed up. So what does he have to prove? Even if he comes back from this, the mark will be with him for the rest of his active career. In sumo it isn't really winning is everything.

Personnally I feel his sumo life is pretty much over. Perhaps it' time to think about k-1 or something else. He is still young, he can still accomplish more in his life but it's just not in sumo.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

In sumo it isn't really winning is everything.

What is the essense of sumo then?

For Asa he should fight back.

Edited August 3, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Hananotaka 8]

In sumo it isn't really winning is everything.

What is the essense of sumo then?

To entertain the spectators with amazing contests of strengh.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

In sumo it isn't really winning is everything.

What is the essense of sumo then?

To entertain the spectators with amazing contests of strengh.

So it is not sport like absolute display/performance of power/speed/wit regardless of public opinion. But Asa took it real as sport, not a show, didn't he?. From the beginning, He did not really understanf rule of the Japan show, that is why he is questioning WHY WHY WHY .

Since all the relationships are similar to employee and employer (actually worse than that. employee has no means to defend against unhappy employer)

All sumo boys from Mongolia are more or less guest workers, aren't they?

Edited August 3, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Afrozuna 8]

"His dream of becoming a Dai yokozuna is pretty washed up."

Isn't he already a Dai Yokozuna?

"Personnally I feel his sumo life is pretty much over. Perhaps it' time to think about k-1 or something else. He is still young, he can still accomplish more in his life but it's just not in sumo."

Would you say that if Roger Federer or Tiger Woods was banned from playing two Grand Slams. Really some of the things people are saying here are very silly. Many are hoping that the Yokozuna will give up. I think he will be even more determined than ever to win. This situation seems to help Asashoryu more than hurt him. HE NOW HAS THE PERFECT EXCUSE TO TAKE SOME TIME OFF SO THAT HE CAN HEAL WHATEVER LINGERING INJURIES HE HAD AND HENECE EXTEND THE LONGEVITY OF HIS CAREER. Of course this can not be guaranteed as such is the nature of life.

[Iwagakki 0]

I have been following this thread, and the story in the Japanese media as much as I can. It's been on tv a lot.

Asashoryu is injured. Legit. He did something he shouldn't have, maybe. I guess it's not a great idea to be running around helping charities in Mongolia when you should be doing your "duty" in Japan, for the NSK. Whatever.

He's not in great condition mentally or emotionally, I have heard. What he needs is a break from all the crap. That's what this is all about, I think. He needs some "me time" and that just isn't allowed when you are the property of the NSK.

The poor guy can't sleep, he sits up all night watching TV and spacing out. He paces constantly and is on the verge of tears half of the time. Sensitive wimp indeed.

He went to Japan as a teenager, and before he had time to truly understand what was really going on, he was in sumo. Now he is suffering the consequences of a decision he made as a kid. I don't think he had any of this in mind when he went to school in Japan. I bet he just wanted to take advantage of some opportunity, and figured he was a good athlete, and so on. Now, just a few years later, everyone and their brother criticizes him and demands that he give up his self to fit their mold. That sucks for him. Really.

I don't think he figured that he was going to have to basically stop being Mongolian, in order to become Asashoryu. Anyway, he's having a really tough time.

Hasn't anyone else noticed that he takes off home at any chance he can? for years now. After every basho, he's taken off to Mongolia as soon as he's done washing his socks. When he's there, he's all smiles, having a good time just being loved by the people around him. Nobody talking shit about left handed kensho, and whatever other petty thing they can come up with. It is all petty, snipey, stupid little shit. But in Mongolia, he's just loved. Maybe it doesn't even matter to him if it's all on tv, and BIG. I bet it's just cool for him to go there and not have every nasty little person talking bad about him whenever he turns on the TV or radio. That shit's gotta wear on a guy. He's just a guy who's better at sumo than anyone else. He's not a Japanese salaryman, and he's not one of the "sheeple". He's just some guy trying to do what he thinks he should do, with what he has available to him. I think he's a great athlete, and a good guy, who just wants to do the best he can in life, and he doesnt' deserve to be "hammered down" just because he isn't like you or me, or some ridiculous Japanese ideal. Sumo is a less good thing without him, and it's a less good thing because of the way he is treated in Japan.

I hope he takes the time to have surgery, recovers and trains back to the demon he was a couple years ago. I hope he goes on to win enough yusho to break St. Taiho's record, and then I hope he leaves Sumo altogether the day after that, and that he can go on to live a nice life back home in Mongolia with people that love him and respect him.

[sekitori 492]

In an almost unprecedent move, the Kyokai is telling a yokozuna not to win, not even bother to show up.

For most people, it is actually a request for him to retire. Asashoryu likely thought of retiring himself but right now his state of mind is too fluid to state one way or another. If he does not retire now, it will forever be talked about every time he does something. He must battle that talk every time it happens. Does he have any energy left to do so? His dream of becoming a Dai yokozuna is pretty washed up. So what does he have to prove? Even if he comes back from this, the mark will be with him for the rest of his active career. In sumo it isn't really winning is everything.

Personally I feel his sumo life is pretty much over. Perhaps it's time to think about k-1 or something else. He is still young, he can still accomplish more in his life but it's just not in sumo.

I can't begin to know anything close to what Jonosuke knows about sumo. I have great respect for his opinions. Perhaps his statement is correct and that Asashoryu should retire. But I do know that Asashoryu is an extremely proud man who has a huge ego. He is also an enormously talented rikishi--possibly one of the greatest yokozunas of all time.

He must harbor quite a bit of anger for being treated in what is in his mind is an extremely unfair manner. Whether that anger has any validity is questionable, but I'm sure that's the way he feels and that's really all that matters. After encountering so much negativity, others who are accused as he was may assume that they're no longer wanted and the next step would be retirement. But Asashoryu is not like other people. I doubt if his great pride would permit him to do it. I believe he can channel that anger in a positive manner to re-establish himself as a respected as well as a talented yokozuna. I think he'll quietly serve out the suspension, let his injuries heal, and get into the best condition possible. Because the suspension taught him a very good lesson, his behavior will improve. He will return to the Hatsu basho and probably will only do only reasonably well because of his inactivity. But after that, starting with the Haru basho, I think he will re-establish himself as the great yokozuna he is.

The only way Asashoryu can prove himself to his doubters is by changing his attitude and behaving in a manner that's acceptable to all. In sumo, winning may not be everything, but if it's done showing respect to everyone concerned, it's close to being everything. That's Asashoryu's challenge and I have a feeling that he'll meet it--despite what others may think.

[paolo 0]

You do not get the point. Asashoryu sent a doctor's notice that he is unable to join the Jugyo. Even kyujo Yokozuna usually join and do the dohyo-iri.... If he is severely injured it is accepted, though. But by playing football he showed that his condition was everthing but too bad to at least perform the dohyo-iri.......

I am everything but an expert; I read that several people are convinced that the two things are so different that it can be perfectly possible for him to play soccer (but please, have a look at the movie to see what kind of soccer game we are talking about ...) and at the same time not possible for him to do the dohyo-iri properly.

.....This proves he chose to rather do what he wants than to fulfill his duties as a Yokozuna. It was a statement to the local fans that he has no interest in performing for them but to prefer his own interests......

That is your interpretation, and it can be the right one, of course. But other people think that he postponed the start of his healing treatments by one day just to be present at a CHARITY activity for CHILDREN, and only after pressures by his government. By the way Mongolian government excused themselves near the Kyokai for that.

Still I think that in case the Kyokai did not like what they had seen, they could have scolded him, asked him to do the dohyo-iri all the same in the exhibition tournament, fine him by some amount of money. Disqualifying him for two bashos without accepting his explanations means exactly what you mean: Asashoryu is not worth the title of yokozuna, he lies on purpose and he only does what he wants to do, and we must kill him. We cannot force him to retire ? we create a situation in which he will lose his determination to fight on and he will have to retire. May I say that I find this behaviour a rather coward one ?

[Chisaiyama 11]

As usual I believe Jonosuke, in his wisdom and experience, has come closest to the point of what is really happening here. There are certainly factions in the NSK that would cheerfully love to see Asa Intai. There are also other realists that know his continuing powere has kept them going through a very dark time. Certainly all of the Japanese fans would love to see a native Yokozuna. There are also many who would be happy if Asashoryu becam a Yokozuna in fact as well as name.

That is really what it all boils down to. Asa is an egotistic, individualist in a sport that demands that you show respect, dignity and decorum at all times, from the lowest Jonokuchi to the most powerful Yokozuna. He came up the system like a bear was chasing him and never looked back. He also never had the time to learn the niceties. It shows everyday during hon-basho when he does his Dohyo-iri. It is a wooden mechanical performance with none of the respect for the shinto beliefs and mysticism that it entails. Hakuho is a little bit better in his Dohyo-iri but he just started doing it, after all these basho you would think Asa would have gotten in to it.

I agree right now sumo would be the worse if Asa were to retire, however Jonosuke has a point, Asa has lost whatever face he ever had with the latest fiasco. If he can truly be introspective and realize that yes he's Mongolian but yes he agreed to give over a lot of that individualism to join ozumo and use this downtime, to heal mentally as well as physically he should be able to come back, regain face and continue to the end of what will doubless be an absolutely astounding career.

For those of you who constantly whine that he is the greatest, he is an individual, he should be glorified, he should be adulated; I say fine he shoulde be BUT he must realize that HE took on the role of rikishi, of komosubi, of sekiwaki, of ozeki and finally Yokozuna. He was happy to do this and yest a lot of it was for the higher pay and other perks not the least of which is 10-15 million yen in kensho he has brought in most every basho. But like the great SciFi author Rober Heinlein said way back in the 60's "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch". If he is going to accept the praise and the money and the glory HE has a DUTY to return some of it to the people who help pay that salary with their 11-15 thousand yen a pop seats and their purchase of tegata and other merchandise. He is a Yokozuna for God sake not Paris Hilton.

[mazurao 0]

Many in the Kyokai wanted Asashoryu gone, and for a long time. But without the second Yokozuna, there was no way for them to act on that wish. Now finally they could do something, and also got an excellent pretext.

All this talk about Asashoryu rethinking his behaviour is of course bs. He is an egotistical, mean, overachieving sob (and that's why I like him so much), and he could not care less about hinkaku or Kyokai rules. Basically, for him it boils down to 2 alternatives:

(a) take his family and bolt to Mongolia. He is admired there, and probably does not care much about how it will be percieved in japan, anyway. Also, for him K1 is an option. He is going to lose, but will be competitive and make some $$$.

(b) stick around, and then win another couple of yusho in 2008, before "they" will kick him out for good. I am afraid though that he is going to be too enraged to show good sumo after this ordeal.

[Coo-cook 0]

Almost everyone I talked to feel he should retire. Two basho penalty is not actually a penalty like that of Kyokutenho. When non yokozuna goes on kyujo, he pays it for by not only not having a normal salary coming in but more importantly by losing his banzuke ranking. In case of a yokozuna he won't lose the ranking. But for that he is expected to contribute and be involved in the basho yusho race. He is expected to win. In an almost unprecedent move, the Kyokai is telling a yokozuna not to win, not even bother to show up.

For most people, it is actually a request for him to retire. Asashoryu likely thought of retiring himself but right now his state of mind is too fluid to state one way or another. If he does not reitre now, it will forever be talked about every time he does something. He must battle that talk every time it happens. Does he have any energy left to do so? His dream of becoming a Dai yokozuna is pretty washed up. So what does he have to prove? Even if he comes back from this, the mark will be with him for the rest of his active career. In sumo it isn't really winning is everything.

Personally I feel his sumo life is pretty much over. Perhaps it' time to think about k-1 or something else. He is still young, he can still accomplish more in his life but it's just not in sumo.

Well, ...if it's really a "hidden" Japanese (sorry, Kyokai's) message for retirement then Asa is really in big trouble. First he must figure out that real "hidden" message. It' seems he's working on it right now.

Why in hell , Kyokai can't be open with him and tell him to go away,simply?

What's with this so called "2 basho ban and salary reduction" decision....as of they would accept him later on.

(That's more mysterious than.... a tea ceremony....or, opening up layers of layers of fine bundled soya bean candy. (Laughing...) ...)

Are you Jonosuke-san telling us that what Japanese would say is what they not necessarily mean? I'm a bit confused.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Coo-cook

[madorosumaru 7]

Here is a short interview of YDC member Makiko Uchidate.

Q: How do you feel about Asashoryu's punishment?

MU: I think the punishment this time was appropriate. It just shows that the Kyokai, which didn't take any action before, has finally made a move.

Q: We heard that the yokozuna is emotionally unstable.

MU: He probably didn't expect it to turn out this way, so the shock must have been great. Still, he is the cause of all of this. To put it bluntly, the oyakata may have had something to do with it, but no one else was involved.

Q: They are talking about recuperation in Mongolia.

MU: It would be a problem if it became a serious medical matter. We also don't want him to hang himself or otherwise have something happen that would endanger his life. There could be some human rights issues involved. This is a very difficult area.

Q: What about an intai mandate?

MU: The YDC, within the rules, can recommend retirement. However, whether he retires or not is up to the yokozuna. The YDC has absolutely not mandated his intai.

Q: What do you expect from the yokozuna in the future?

MU: The only thing is for him to get through this current situation. He should accept the fact that he did wrong and "return as a changed man." It's not as if the YDC wants him to quit. We are waiting for him to return as a good yokozuna.