Sign in to follow this  
yamaneko

Kaio robbed

Recommended Posts

Ok, ive called robbery on things before, but man, what in the world was that? After instant replay they couldnt see that hakuho clearly was down? What rubbish. This could have potentially set up a kotomitsuki yusho if hakuho went and beat asashoryu.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only saw the live feed but at the time I thought Hakuho had lost but wasn't surprised that a mono-ii was called. I think Kaio must have injured himself too because on build-up to the rematch, the live feed was focussed on Kaio's ankles. Anyway, Kaio can't do two matches in a day anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I even slow motioned the slow motion on my DVR and still i dont see how there is any question kaio won. Kaio even initiated the move. I personally am not a big kaio fan, but in any sports i absolutely hate poor oficiating.

Kaio was injured it seemed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if we'll hear the "the Kyokai are prejudiced against the Mongolian rikishi" crowd offer any domos....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it really makes no sense. If it was reversed maybe i could see something like this happening. I remember a similar situation with the roles reversed, hakuho and tochiazuma, but this is very strange

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I even slow motioned the slow motion on my DVR and still i dont see how there is any question kaio won. Kaio even initiated the move. I personally am not a big kaio fan, but in any sports i absolutely hate poor oficiating.

Kaio was injured it seemed.

The minute they announced the torinaoshi, I turned to my wife Nabi and told her Kaio lost. His conditioning is terrible and he was no match in the rematch.

Edited by Yangnomazuma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess that the shinpan will certainly always try to prevent that the Kimura Shonosuke will lose his face by a wrong call ... hence they will call a Torinaoshi in the hope that the one who already won does it again.

Edited by Itachiyama

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looked to me like the old man had a limp. (In a state of confusion...) Hope I'm wrong...

(How long does it take for the matches to show up on info-sumo?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn, the Miyabiyama-Asa bout during Haru was much more ambiguous and it was awarded to Miya. I totally agree that Kaio was robbed. But didn't the gyoiji give the bout to Hakuho? (In a state of confusion...) In that case a mono-ii was definitely called for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dang, im pissed....this REALLY would have made things interesting, and still given a chance of kotomitsuki outright yusho, or even a 3 way tie for ketteisen if mikicky lost one and hakuho beat asashoryu.

Now we are almost guaranteed no ketteisen between the yokozuna.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the live feed, I thought there was no way that Kaio lost it, but I replayed my very fuzzy fuzzy vision capture several times, and concluded that there was a simultaneous hit of Kaio's right foot and Hakuho's body. It looked like Kaio's foot was out, but it wasn't all that clear on the fuzzy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On the live feed, I thought there was no way that Kaio lost it, but I replayed my very fuzzy fuzzy vision capture several times, and concluded that there was a simultaneous hit of Kaio's right foot and Hakuho's body. It looked like Kaio's foot was out, but it wasn't all that clear on the fuzzy.

I'll second Nishinoshima's "baffling" and I agree that on the stream it looked like a clear Kaio win and I was stunned to see the gunbai go the other way. Higher-resolution replays would be nice, yes...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Super Sumo Fan
On the live feed, I thought there was no way that Kaio lost it, but I replayed my very fuzzy fuzzy vision capture several times, and concluded that there was a simultaneous hit of Kaio's right foot and Hakuho's body. It looked like Kaio's foot was out, but it wasn't all that clear on the fuzzy.

I'll second Nishinoshima's "baffling" and I agree that on the stream it looked like a clear Kaio win and I was stunned to see the gunbai go the other way. Higher-resolution replays would be nice, yes...

I got home from work, I live in Japan, in time to watch the last 5 or 6 matches. I have a big screen tv and on the slow motion replay, there was NO doubt that Kaio won the match. He was clearly injured in the match and was no match for Hakuho the second go around, not that there should have been one. I am also not a huge Kaio fan, but he was, without a doubt, ROBBED. (In a state of confusion...) ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I had no idea. I actually turned off the stream after the first bout, I thought for sure Kaio had won, and went in the kitchen cause I was really hungry. Had no idea there even was a mono-ii (In a state of confusion...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've uploaded the video here with a slow-motion of the last seconds. It's not the best quality but I think it's good enough to see that Kaio won.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching Tikozan's feed the poor quality and the Nihon Sumo Kyokai tag (neither of which are the fault of Tikozan) do raise the possibility of Kaio's foot hitting the dirt at the same moment as Hakuho hitting. A higher quality video without any tags in inconvenient places might solve the issue. Watching it at the time I wasn't surprised there was a mono-ii or that the gyoji had pointed to Hakuho for the win, although I had thought Kaio had won.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Watching Tikozan's feed the poor quality and the Nihon Sumo Kyokai tag (neither of which are the fault of Tikozan) do raise the possibility of Kaio's foot hitting the dirt at the same moment as Hakuho hitting. A higher quality video without any tags in inconvenient places might solve the issue. Watching it at the time I wasn't surprised there was a mono-ii or that the gyoji had pointed to Hakuho for the win, although I had thought Kaio had won.

Well, should be a quick chance to watch the video for this discussion here. When the good quality videos on info-sumo.net are on I anyway delete it. Was only for a quick view.

Edit: And don't wonder, on youtube I've another name than here.

Edited by Tikozan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The high-def video on Info-Sumo is out - I'd say the Kaio won, but it's really not that clear-cut. Maybe the win should've been given to him, but we've seen some much worse cases of questionable calls. I personally prefer a few extra tori-naoshi here and there than having debatable calls which close the bout.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having watched the info-sumo feed, Kaio did win the initial bout. It was very close though but in my opinion Hakuho was dead before Kaio's stepped down.

I agree with slt though, that a replay was fair in this case although Kaio knocked himself up in the initial bout.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No not really robbed at all, I have seen much worse than that. Kaio was fully in the air outside the edge of the tawara - both feet. Since neither foot was planted on the ground inside the tawara I conclude that they decided he was dead in the air with no control over the situation.

If he had been in control a bit more it may have been overturned but he wasnt. I have seen this before time and time again.

At normal speed it was very hard to see, though hakuho hit first in the slow mo replay it wasnt overturned because of the aforemetioned reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No not really robbed at all, I have seen much worse than that. Kaio was fully in the air outside the edge of the tawara - both feet. Since neither foot was planted on the ground inside the tawara I conclude that they decided he was dead in the air with no control over the situation.

If he had been in control a bit more it may have been overturned but he wasnt. I have seen this before time and time again.

At normal speed it was very hard to see, though hakuho hit first in the slow mo replay it wasnt overturned because of the aforemetioned reasons.

That's the only way I can see them justifying a torinaoshi. Hakuho was definitely down first, but Kaio was in the air outside the ring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with slt though, that a replay was fair in this case although Kaio knocked himself up in the initial bout.

That's a fairly neat trick (Applauding...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May I add a word.. When I saw it on TV, I thought: "Well done Kaio, but you have been really unlucky, because your left foot was on the tawara and so your left heel touched the ground outside.." A mono-ii was clearly due, but I thought it would confirm my first impression. But now, watching the replay (and I presume that the judges have certainly watched it, too), Kaio's left heel did not touch outside before the tsukiotoshi, and the foot is still touching the ground when Hakuho touches the ground. As far as I remember, what I have seen in many cases like this is that as long as you touch the ground inside the tawara you are considered in play ... Only if you are flying you can be considered shini-tai and lose. So I do not really understand the tori-naoshi. (All the above have of course nothing to do with the bout in what I would call "strict sumo terms", which was clearly won by the beautiful Kaio's tsukiotoshi..).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaio was robbed. The replay was clear that Kaio was still on the tawara when Hakuho hit the ground. I think Kaio was the victim of circumstance. If you go with the replay, you sashi-chigae Shonosuke (which I think the judges are reluctant to do in any case), and give the Yokozuna a loss (which I think the judges are reluctant to do in any case). It's easy to say now, but I did see it coming. When the judges are in a sticky situation like this, they just ignore the replay and order a tori-naoshi. Which I think really sucks. It reminds me of Asashoryu vs Kotonowaka. You can call it one way or the other, but, jeez, there's no way to call a "same time" torinaoshi. That's just wussy officiating.

The NHK guy tried (a little too hard) to make it all seem kosher, but Kitanofuji flatly said, "Hakuho was lucky." The announcer noted that Kaio nodded after the torinaoshi call, suggesting that even he thought it might have been the right call. Kitanofuji just harrumphed, "I wonder about that." I find myself agreeing with him. Kaio certainly expected a torinaoshi, but I don't think that means he agreed that there should have been one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaio was still inside the circle as Hakuho was down. See the pictures from Asojima ! (Applauding...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this