Sumo Reference Updates

[Asashosakari 19,594]

According to his ja.wiki profile, Akinoshima took on his wife's surname Miyamoto 宮本 when they married in 1994, so it should probably be reflected on the DB.

[Tamanaogijima 765]

On 04/09/2024 at 01:16, Asashosakari said:

According to his ja.wiki profile, Akinoshima took on his wife's surname Miyamoto 宮本 when they married in 1994, so it should probably be reflected on the DB.

Funnily not even the Rikishi Directories got it right for a quartercentury... Only the first directory of the Reiwa era (R02) give Miyamoto as surname. Until the last Heisei directory he's still Mr Yamanaka. Even the oyakata list at sumo.or.jp first mentions the name in 2019, 25 years after the marriage. I wonder what caused them to "suddenly" notice the change of name :-)

[Asashosakari 19,594]

Kotokenryu's sumo.or.jp profile has his shusshin as Ulaanbaatar, while the DB says Töv. Looking back through my archives it was apparently Töv only directly after the shindeshi kensa; for his maezumo two months later it had already been altered. I think with Japanese recruits we've generally treated such early modifications as corrections, not changes, so Töv should probably be replaced altogether.

[Asashosakari 19,594]

Wakaikari's shusshin change earlier this year was recorded incompletely (his profile just reads "Kyoto-fu" at the moment).

On 25/02/2024 at 23:20, Yubinhaad said:

Ms10e Wakaikari - 東京都江戸川区 > 京都府京都市西京区 (Tokyo-to, Edogawa-ku > Kyoto-fu, Kyoto-shi, Nishikyo-ku)

 

[Asashosakari 19,594]

I'm agnostic on the other changes proposed by Muhomatsu, but the "tsuru" issue came up again on Discord today.
 

On 25/03/2014 at 17:55, Muhomatsu said:

You may have noticed the kanji for Kise-beya's Tsurubayashi is written in hiragana on the Kyokai's site. I note that the Sumo Reference Database uses the traditional Tsuru character in absence of having the proper one. I was unsure what the proper character was until I saw it on the NHK broadcast of the upper makushita division results on either day 14 or 15. It is "靏". A rain crane! Or should it be crain? I see why my wife says I have no good sense of humor.

Is that something that can be amended in the database?

On 29/07/2019 at 11:27, Doitsuyama said:

On 15/07/2019 at 20:50, Muhomatsu said:

Just like correcting the different versions of "Hama", there are a few kanji variants that could be used to "perfect" the wrestler's names in this database.

Among current wrestlers, for instance:

Taka in "Takayasu" and "Takaryu" and "Takakurayama" and "Takamayama" is:  髙

Toku in "Tokushoryu" and "Tokushinho" is:  德

Saki in "Kizakiumi" and "Yabugasaki" and "Kotourasaki" is:  﨑

Tsuru in "Tsurubayashi" is:  靍

Da in "Hidano" is:  驒

There are also variants of "Umi" that Tosanoumi and Tokitsuumi used (current Mihamaumi).

 

In general I'm following the shikona on sumo.or.jp which is the official site after all. Their kanji shikona also are used for matching the rikishi in the banzuke and torikumi grabbers so diverting from the official variation makes for awkward extra coding. I still might make these changes at a later date.

Considering the Kyokai site doesn't provide the simplified tsuru kanji at all (still uses a kana replacement), I don't feel it makes much sense to use the "wrong" 鶴 kanji for Tsurubayashi on the DB when the correct one 靍 is known and using it won't create any additional importing workload since there's a need for a workaround already.

In addition we had another case crop up later:

On 15/03/2020 at 00:39, Yubinhaad said:

Tsuru - I believe it's the undisplayable 靏 kanji, as in Tsurubayashi for example.

That was from a shindeshi thread and referred to this (quickly retired) rikishi whose real surname is currently just given in kana on the DB.

Edited September 28, 2024 by Asashosakari

[Akinomaki 40,703]

Likely not something worth to consider

Imamura has a different Ima for his real name, one that causes that weird Emoji error on the forum and can't be posted here https://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/

The NSK has the standard Ima 今 on the site, on Twitter usually the other Ima, papers all use 今村 of course, just like they use 琴桜 for 琴櫻

One COULD change the real name entry to the other Ima, without affecting the data transfer

[Gurowake 4,096]

Shishi's wikipedia page gives his first name as "Serhii", not Sergey.  Both have been used on this forum, though the latter is far more common in search results because it's what Kintamayama used in his "lower divisions celebs", but independent occurrences are somewhat more even.   It appears as though there is a spelling difference in Cyrllic between the Ukrainian and Russian version on the name, and although apparently his first language is Russian, his name is spelled the Ukrainian way, Сергій instead of Сергей as in Russian.  Most likely it's because the Japanese have decided that his name is 'セルギイ' in katakana, so whenever an article gets translated from Japanese, it tends to be spelled the Russian way.  However, the Kyokai's webpage has Serhii, and that's the source for Wikipedia.  The talk page acknowledges that many press reports have "Sergey", but decided to go with what the NSK has.  I suggest the DB follows the Kyokai on this.

Apologies if you're unable to tell the difference between г (Cyrliic Ge, based on Greek Gamma) and r (lowercase R).  It's really subtle on my screen, but г will often appear by itself in the following, while r will not.  The two different Romanized versions of г suggest that it's pronounced differently enough to warrant a different letter in the Latin alphabet.  If you search for "г" on Google, you get the normal Cyrillic letter, but if you search for "г ukrainian" the first result is a slightly different letter, Ґ, and it's that letter that gets pronounced /g/ in Ukrainian, not г.   Thus I assume that his name is pronounced with /h/ or the similar phoneme /ɦ/ that's clearly distinct from /g/.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shishi_Masaru

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergius_(name)

https://www.sumo.or.jp//EnSumoDataRikishi/profile/3990/

 

[Bunbukuchagama 767]

2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Shishi's wikipedia page gives his first name as "Serhii", not Sergey.  Both have been used on this forum, though the latter is far more common in search results because it's what Kintamayama used in his "lower divisions celebs", but independent occurrences are somewhat more even.   It appears as though there is a spelling difference in Cyrllic between the Ukrainian and Russian version on the name, and although apparently his first language is Russian, his name is spelled the Ukrainian way, Сергій instead of Сергей as in Russian.  Most likely it's because the Japanese have decided that his name is 'セルギイ' in katakana, so whenever an article gets translated from Japanese, it tends to be spelled the Russian way.  However, the Kyokai's webpage has Serhii, and that's the source for Wikipedia.  The talk page acknowledges that many press reports have "Sergey", but decided to go with what the NSK has.  I suggest the DB follows the Kyokai on this.

Apologies if you're unable to tell the difference between г (Cyrliic Ge, based on Greek Gamma) and r (lowercase R).  It's really subtle on my screen, but г will often appear by itself in the following, while r will not.  The two different Romanized versions of г suggest that it's pronounced differently enough to warrant a different letter in the Latin alphabet.  If you search for "г" on Google, you get the normal Cyrillic letter, but if you search for "г ukrainian" the first result is a slightly different letter, Ґ, and it's that letter that gets pronounced /g/ in Ukrainian, not г.   Thus I assume that his name is pronounced with /h/ or the similar phoneme /ɦ/ that's clearly distinct from /g/.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shishi_Masaru

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergius_(name)

https://www.sumo.or.jp//EnSumoDataRikishi/profile/3990/

 

Since Shishi is a Ukrainian citizen, his passport lists his name as Serhii or Serhiy (Сергiй), I bet.

Indeed, Ukrainian "г" из softer than its Russian analogue; it is somewhat similar to Greek "Г" (but not the sound written as "ГК"); as a result, Ukranian authorities made a decision to transliterate it as "h". 

Edited October 26, 2024 by Bunbukuchagama

[Ryoshishokunin 315]

There's also been a shift in Ukranian nationals from russian to ukrainian spellings of their names in both cyrillic and latin letters, even amongst the russian native-speakers.   One of the very minor, but noticable, effects of the war.

 

I.e. vote in favour of using the ukranian 'serhii' being more correct now, even if it wasn't always.

Edited October 26, 2024 by Ryoshishokunin

[Asashosakari 19,594]

Is it intentional that the query doesn't pick up makuuchi debuts that happened to be in sanyaku rather than at a maegashira rank? Yokozuna Miyagiyama does not show up in a query for 1927.01 debuts, while the other five rikishi who merged in from Osaka do (plus one "normal" makuuchi debut via promotion from juryo).

(Double-checked with Aioi in 1911.02, the last rikishi to debut as komusubi, so it's not just an isolated matter affecting Miyagiyama alone. No sanyaku-on-debut rikishi show up in general.)

[Asashosakari 19,594]

Akiseyama's scoreline for his final basho should be 0-0 with no yasumi at all (official), Tokushoryu's should be 0-0-1 with two yasumi (official).

Chiyoarashi's should be 0-4 with no yasumi after the fourth loss (official).

Edited November 3, 2024 by Asashosakari

[Tigerboy1966 1,455]

4 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Akiseyama's scoreline for his final basho should be 0-0 with no yasumi at all (official),

Help me out here. What's a "yasumi"? It shows as a white triangle on the db but there are no examples since 1928. Some kind of draw?

[Asashosakari 19,594]

On 03/11/2024 at 09:49, Tigerboy1966 said:

Help me out here. What's a "yasumi"? It shows as a white triangle on the db but there are no examples since 1928. Some kind of draw?

休み or やすみ = absence. In modern sumo it just means that the rikishi was on active duty but not scheduled for a match that day (i.e. what the DB marks as —), and I'm giving a heads-up that Akiseyama et al. have absences listed for days that they were already retired. I'm using the potentially pretentious-sounding "yasumi" to make clear when I'm talking about the daily marks, not the absence number that's part of the W-L-A record, because they're different values for makushita-and-under rikishi.

What you've found in pre-1928 data is how they handled absences before the fusen system; in those cases "yasumi" is listed as a pseudo-kimarite for the scheduled match because both opponents got the day off with no winner or loser being declared. The triangle is just the DB's catch-all marker for any no-winner-no-loser bout (which usually means a draw, but these matches aren't even that, they're just "no contest").

Edited November 5, 2024 by Asashosakari

[mugatake 44]

There's something odd with some of the very oldest banzukes in the database (accuracy aside). The plain banzuke view seems to have an error which causes no navigation arrow to be provided for years in which only one basho is listed. However, one of the two intended arrows does appear for Fuyu 1761 - and the issue does not affect 1946 at all, despite it also having only one basho.

[Kaitetsu 296]

In the Takamiyama and Konishiki Grand Sumo Legends episode, we get an interview by Kida Mitsunari, former makushita Ichinotani. 
The DB lists his real name with a #, but I think with the name they mark him with in the interview we can confirm his name is indeed Kida Mitsunari.

 

[rokudenashi 324]

Urutora's old shikona 櫻潮 gives a reading of おおしお rather than おうしお

Kazeken'ō's given name of 厳太 is read げんた, but the DB has it as けんた

[Asashosakari 19,594]

25 minutes ago, rokudenashi said:

Urutora's old shikona 櫻潮 gives a reading of おおしお rather than おうしお

おおしお is what the Kyokai used. Is that unequivocally wrong?

[rokudenashi 324]

11 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

おおしお is what the Kyokai used. Is that unequivocally wrong?

おう is the standard on-yomi for 櫻, but as you say, it's おお here https://sumo.or.jp/ResultRikishiDataDaicho/banzuke?kakuzuke=5&basho_id=556&page=2

That is the reading of his original stablemaster's shikona after all, so perhaps used as an homage.

[Asashosakari 19,594]

Sadanojo's Kyushu record should be 2-1-5, not 2-1-4 (Kyokai).

[Akinomaki 40,703]

The previous Shibatayama myoseki owner Miyanishiki  :

With the Wikipedia article ja.wiki/宮錦浩, taken from BBM's Takasago-beya history - read aloud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQz_cJoY_IE

some slightly inexact facts in the DB can be spotted.

The DB has him only as Takasago-beya, but in fact he was Shibatayama->Takadagawa-Takasago

Hatsu dohyo in 1942 in Shibatayama-beya of Miyagiyama

When the shisho died in Nov. 1943, he moved to Takadagawa with Hayasegawa, who died in Feb. 1944, so he was in Takasago starting at the May basho 1944, Hatsu basho in Takadagawa and the previous 3 basho in Shibatayama-beya.

Miyanishiki was the first Showa born oyakata to reach retirement age, but he died within a week after leaving the NSK.

He gave his myoseki to Onokuni when he left, so in the Shibatayama history not Miyanishiki but Onokuni should be listed as the owner when Wakajishi borrowed it.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Kabu.aspx?kabu=77

[Doitsuyama 1,192]

On 30/10/2024 at 01:15, Asashosakari said:

Is it intentional that the query doesn't pick up makuuchi debuts that happened to be in sanyaku rather than at a maegashira rank? Yokozuna Miyagiyama does not show up in a query for 1927.01 debuts, while the other five rikishi who merged in from Osaka do (plus one "normal" makuuchi debut via promotion from juryo).

(Double-checked with Aioi in 1911.02, the last rikishi to debut as komusubi, so it's not just an isolated matter affecting Miyagiyama alone. No sanyaku-on-debut rikishi show up in general.)

That's a known issue and a database limitation. I have only markers for rank debuts, not division debuts, and the "Makuuchi debut" feature actually uses the maegashira rank debut which is in general ok since not many makuuchi debuts are higher than maegashira...

[Doitsuyama 1,192]

On 08/11/2024 at 07:35, mugatake said:

There's something odd with some of the very oldest banzukes in the database (accuracy aside). The plain banzuke view seems to have an error which causes no navigation arrow to be provided for years in which only one basho is listed. However, one of the two intended arrows does appear for Fuyu 1761 - and the issue does not affect 1946 at all, despite it also having only one basho.

The navigation arrow is missing when the banzuke is not known for the basho in question. In your screenshot for example there should be a banzuke for 1761 Haru but I don't have it (and maybe noone has it anymore), so there is a broken link by design. You still can navigate with the drop down selection.

[mugatake 44]

19 hours ago, Doitsuyama said:

The navigation arrow is missing when the banzuke is not known for the basho in question. In your screenshot for example there should be a banzuke for 1761 Haru but I don't have it (and maybe noone has it anymore), so there is a broken link by design. You still can navigate with the drop down selection.

There is a photographed copy of the 1759 Natsu banzuke in Sakai's Nihon Sumoushi, but it is beyond me to read the script. He provides an incomplete transcription which ends at maegashira 4, and then writes on both sides "and 18 others".

Spoiler

Spoiler

Is this of any use?

(There may be other missing banzuke in there, but let's start with the one.)

Edited December 17, 2024 by mugatake

[Doitsuyama 1,192]

5 hours ago, mugatake said:

Is this of any use?

(There may be other missing banzuke in there, but let's start with the one.)

The banzuke itself is not that great to read indeed. I guess I could add the missing banzuke down to M4, just need a good bit of time to write all this down.

[Akinomaki 40,703]

I'm getting the 503 service unavailable error for several days now - is a major rebuilding going on?