Doitsuyama

Sumo Reference Updates

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4 minutes ago, Nantonoyama said:

Tatsunami-beya is historically linked with Tatsunami-ichimon, obviously, but since the Takanohana election affair, it got kind of kicked out their namesake ichimon, and joined Takanohana's.

Since Takanohana-ichimon vanished, Tatsunami-beya is now part of Dewanoumi-ichimon.

I guess they could have change the name of the ichimon to Isegahama, since it is now the most important of the ichimon, but I would say that it is a personal matter against Tatsunami oyakata for this election thing, and the heya will reintegrate the ichimon when a new oyakata takes over this prestigious name around the year 2033.

They did change the ichimon name then, and it is Isegahama-ichimon since January 2013. Only the DB still uses Tatsunami.

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5 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

They did change the ichimon name then, and it is Isegahama-ichimon since January 2013. Only the DB still uses Tatsunami.

Now you tell it it is very obvious, I read an uncountable amount of articles mentioning Isegahama ichimon, how stupid I am (Order,order!)

But I remember very clearly the "shock" of this election

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I believe that the same person is referred to as Oki Kasuke by the JSA website, while the doitsubase treats him as Oki Kazuki.

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Not an update, but a question: I was looking at Takamisakari's page and noticed that in 2000.11 he went 0-0-15 but somehow did not drop in rank. He's ranked J2e twice in a row despite two consecutive kyujo. After that he became Ms1e. Maybe an update is needed here?

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54 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

Not an update, but a question: I was looking at Takamisakari's page and noticed that in 2000.11 he went 0-0-15 but somehow did not drop in rank. He's ranked J2e twice in a row despite two consecutive kyujo. After that he became Ms1e. Maybe an update is needed here?

That was most likely the kosho seido system at play, which allowed a wrestler injured in the ring to drop out with no effect on his rank for one tournament. So at M7W, he injured himself on day 3 of Aki 2000, gave a fusen on day 4 by pulling out, and his 1-2-12 dropped him to J2e, where the kosho seido kicked in to preserve his J2e for Hatsu 2001 despite the 0-0-15 in Kyushu 2000. But since it only applies for one tournament, his 0-0-15 in Hatsu 2001 then drops him to Ms1e for Haru 2001.

That's corroborated by his English Wikipedia page, which states that he was injured on day 3 of Aki 2000, and his Japanese Wikipedia page, which further states that he suffered a right knee injury (rupture of some kind of ligament/tendon) within 2 basho of his makuuchi debut, which lines up with the timeframe you mentioned.

The kosho seido system was introduced in 1972, but was abolished in 2003 because it was felt that wrestlers were abusing the system with minor injuries. One major beneficiary was Chiyotaikai - if you check his page, you'll see that he has multiple tournaments at ozeki where, despite a losing tournament and a 0-0-15 immediately thereafter, he still remained an ozeki the tournament after whereas in present times, he would be a sekiwake with the 10-win condition (cf. Takakeisho over Natsu - Aki 2019). The kosho seido also led to some quirks - one wrestler was notably injured while waiting for his bout by another wrestler falling on him from the dohyo, but because the injury had not happened in the ring, the injured wrestler could not claim kosho seido.

Edited by Seiyashi
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13 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

The kosho seido system was introduced in 1972, but was abolished in 2003 because it was felt that wrestlers were abusing the system with minor injuries.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.

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Posted (edited)

Some errata and given name stuff for @Doitsuyama when he has some free time.

Former Sekiwake Sakahoko's death date is a month too early, it should be September 16th 2019.


Maikeru's given name is Shuki, not Shoki. (English side only, the reading is correct on the Japanese side)


Three foreign lower division rikishi now have given names on their Kyokai profile. I don't know what your policy is with those - backdate them to the start of their career? Anyway, here they are:

Hokutenkai Aoi (葵,  あおい)

Hokuseiho Osamu (治,  おさむ)

Dewanoryu Kazuki (和希,  かずき)


Given name changes on both the 2018 Aki and Kyushu banzuke were not entered:

Quote

2018 AKI

Sd1w Yamatoarashi Reisen > Fujita Yoshiro (藤田 誉士郎) [Changed shikona back to Yamatoarashi 2019.09, but did NOT change given name that time, now Yamatoarashi Yoshiro]
Sd20w Hotsukasa Takashi > Omoto Takashi (大元 貴志) [Kanji change only, reading stays as Takashi]
Jd22e Suzuki Akifumi > Ishiazuma Akinosuke (石東 明之助)
Jk10e Matsuzawa Akihide > Wakaseido Akira (若勢道 央)

 

Quote

2018 KYUSHU

Sd87e Saito > Dainichido Muya (大日堂 夢弥)

Ms4w Kagamio Nanji > Kagamio Hideoki (秀興)

 

And lastly from the 2019 Kyushu banzuke:

Quote

J13e Kototebakari Toshiki > Kotoshoho Yoshinari (琴勝峰 吉成)
Sd64w Koshinishiki Masatora > Etsunohana Tomoya (越乃花 友弥)
Jk15w Mitsuuchi Kota > Tosamidori Kiyota (土佐緑 清太)


Sharp-eyed Ryafuji caught the Kotoshoho case and the database was duly corrected (thanks!). I only just noticed that the other two given name changes from that banzuke were also wrongly reversed on the following one. So it should still say Etsunohana Tomoya and Tosamidori Kiyota, neither has made any changes since then.

Edited by Yubinhaad
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So, as I am always looking for ways to express my ever increasing Sumo obsession, and my various madcap projects such as fight notation system and statistically useful pseudo-Kimarite having been put on hiatus due to a bout of sanity, perhaps I could be made useful as regards Sumodb's one major flaw.

That being, to paraphrase everybody, ever; "Sumodb is great  but the heights and weights are useless"

Which is odd, because its easy work compared to pretty much everything else that must go into maintaining the site. The heights and weights are all right there on the website ready to go - hell, I have all the Sekitori stats from Aki on a spreadsheet right in front of me, and could add them in 20 minutes.

So if you could do with a data entry dogsbody, to add this stuff, I volunteer. Or I can send the pitiful amount of data to someone who already has access, whatever. But lets get the height/weight stuff up to date for the last Basho at least, t'is but a few minutes work.

Cheers

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On checking the kabu list lately, I've noticed that Tateyama (ex Homarefuji) has a blank entry where his ichimon (Isegahama) should be. 

image.png.b17c6a313bb15a1e45ca11b315070d3e.png

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4 hours ago, Kotomaru said:

I have all the Sekitori stats from Aki on a spreadsheet right in front of me, and could add them in 20 minutes.

I also have a homebrew sumo spreadsheet and I update the heights and weights from the Kyokai site a few days before each basho.  But they don't have height/weight stats for anyone below Juryo.  Is there a spot for this?  Sumodb values are usually a bit shorter and a lot lighter....

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4 hours ago, Ichimawashi said:

I also have a homebrew sumo spreadsheet and I update the heights and weights from the Kyokai site a few days before each basho.  But they don't have height/weight stats for anyone below Juryo.  Is there a spot for this?  Sumodb values are usually a bit shorter and a lot lighter....

The Sumo App typically updates the data for the lower division wrestlers. 

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First of all, I'd like to thank you for the amazing work in SumoDB, it's an amazing website!

I wanted to point out, though, that the "Highlight Foreigners" toggle is not applying to Shishi.

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Something seems to be up with the Chiyomaru - Wakamotoharu matchup from Day 9. It's not showing in their basho records properly or showing up on the banzuke.

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The Daieisho vs MyogiryuTamawashi vs Terutsuyoshi and the Chiyomaru vs Wakamotoharu bouts are somehow not working properly. The wrestlers' basho torikumi pages have those bouts as `absent'. This has an impact on the toikumi page which has those bouts missing in the arasoi. E.g. on the toikumi page the arasoi has Daieisho with 7 wins instead of 8.

Interestingly on the banzuke page, the banzuke records are correct and Daieisho, for example, is listed as having  wins on that page's arasoi, but the graphic of wins and losses by his name still shows an absent bout on that page too.

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Looks like moto-Homarefuji's ichimon affiliation was added as of the Kotoshogiku intai, but whole ichimon is still mislabeled as Tatsunami even though it's Isegahama.

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3 hours ago, Sakura said:

The Daieisho vs MyogiryuTamawashi vs Terutsuyoshi and the Chiyomaru vs Wakamotoharu bouts are somehow not working properly. The wrestlers' basho torikumi pages have those bouts as `absent'. This has an impact on the toikumi page which has those bouts missing in the arasoi. E.g. on the toikumi page the arasoi has Daieisho with 7 wins instead of 8.

Interestingly on the banzuke page, the banzuke records are correct and Daieisho, for example, is listed as having  wins on that page's arasoi, but the graphic of wins and losses by his name still shows an absent bout on that page too.

This problem has now also occurred in the Midorifuji - Hidenoumi and Akiseyama - Chiyootori bouts today.

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2 hours ago, themistyseas said:

Looks like moto-Homarefuji's ichimon affiliation was added as of the Kotoshogiku intai, but whole ichimon is still mislabeled as Tatsunami even though it's Isegahama.

In a sense that mislabelling is cosmetic, because the ichimon was originally known as Tatsunami-Isegahama before being Tatsunami and then Isegahama (more on the history of the name change can be found at the top of this page 31, regarding the Takanohana mess). Considering that ichimon haven't fundamentally changed as groupings, changing the label is not easy because it either misimplies that Isegahama ichimon existed historically, causing confusion when cross-referencing older heya with external sources (which may/will refer to Tatsunami ichimon), or causes backward compatibility issues with there being a seeming break between Tatsunami and Isegahama.

I'd say that if you knew enough about sumo to be delving into the ichimon on the db, you'd also have access to contacts/resources which would be able to explain this to you without mucking around with the data in that way. To that end, I think keeping it as it is is probably the least bad of all evils.

Edited by Seiyashi
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8 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

changing the label is not easy because it either misimplies that Isegahama ichimon existed historically, causing confusion when cross-referencing older heya with external sources (which may/will refer to Tatsunami ichimon), or causes backward compatibility issues with there being a seeming break between Tatsunami and Isegahama

This is a fair point and the best rationale so far - thank you for the explanation because while I've used (gratefully) the DB for a long time, the architecture obviously isn't my area. I suppose you could create a new Ichimon, go back to 2013 and give everyone who was in the Tatsunami ichimon a CI for changed ichimon, but that wouldn't be technically accurate since it was the ichimon that changed and not their status. I can see also how renaming it "Tatsunami-Isegahama" would cause some formatting issues.

I appreciate the pointlessness of debating minutiae, the perfectionist in me just wants it right for today's world :)

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Just now, themistyseas said:

I appreciate the pointlessness of debating minutiae, the perfectionist in me just wants it right for today's world :)

Coming from a data science background, I can tell you that the first thing you discard is perfectionism, because humans are absolute arseholes when it comes to falling in nice categories.

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For some reason, Wakatakakage is listed on the landing page of the DB as having an 11-8 (?!) record (should be 6-8).

image.png.a576567dc91f57021d87fb19a72fb44b.png

His actual basho result page also reflects 11-8, but shows his by-bout opponents and results correctly.

image.png.6a865905a48595f9affb974c9e547afc.png

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9 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

For some reason, Wakatakakage is listed on the landing page of the DB as having an 11-8 (?!) record (should be 6-8).

Most of the errors pointed out here are fairly common, but this one is completely new to my knowledge.  It's really strange, like the 11 is in base 5 for some reason.

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