Doitsuyama

Sumo Reference Updates

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dada78641    342
On 12/23/2017 at 23:03, Golynohana said:

Unfortunately NSK decided to block our new server too, Moving our sumo stuff to yet another server would probably work only for a short time.
We will need to look for a new solution.

Solution idea: developing an easy-to-install windows service, which could be installed on a server that is not blocked by NSK.
This windows service would grab all needed data and send it to sumo reference and to my sumo site via web services.

Regarding my games for hatsu'18 - I am going to enter the data manually as I won't have time to develop anything new.

I would be willing to set up a proxy script on my server. Technically it should be very simple. I assume we only need opaque calls (only need to retrieve and pass on the actual response data, no need for custom headers other than perhaps some fake UA headers).

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Jakusotsu    2,066

Perhaps the SumoDB is getting blocked automatically by some DDoS guard for making too many calls? Just an uneducated guess...

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PawnSums    59

1923.05, Makushita 30 West Tamanishiki, is listed as going 3-3 when it shows a 2-4 on the Hoshitori.

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Rocks    880

Could someone fix it so that when you check off "Rank next basho" and "Result next basho"  while looking at the current banzuke shows what it will be? It would really help with my picks for the sumo games. Thanks. 

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Senkoho    527

What is the first character in Tsurubayashi's shikona after all?

The Abema stream had 靏, DB has 鶴 and the Kyokai site writes it with hiragana...

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Gurowake    1,642

It's possible that it's actually 靏, but that kanji is not available in the fonts used in some places.  It's Unicode 974F, but the much more common 鶴 is likely available in less general font packages.  I think in Japanese they don't want to use the wrong kanji in someone's actual name, but using hiragana is never "wrong".  Doitsuyama is probably more likely to just used a kanji that's effectively the same thing but looks slightly different.

Edited by Gurowake

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Asashosakari    11,023

As we've had a few cases like that before - my understanding is that the DB attempts to reflect what's actually on the printed banzuke, so there's no intentional "kanji replacement" going on. Not having a recent banzuke around I can't check, but it's certainly possible that Abema had the correct (print banzuke) kanji and the DB's divergent choice just hasn't been noticed before in this particular case. Conversely it's possible (and perhaps more likely) that the DB is right and Abema got it wrong...I recall falling for a mistake in the Kyokai's Ustream graphics, a few years ago.

 

Edited by Asashosakari

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Doitsuyama    1,009
12 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

As we've had a few cases like that before - my understanding is that the DB attempts to reflect what's actually on the printed banzuke, so there's no intentional "kanji replacement" going on. Not having a recent banzuke around I can't check, but it's certainly possible that Abema had the correct (print banzuke) kanji and the DB's divergent choice just hasn't been noticed before in this particular case. Conversely it's possible (and perhaps more likely) that the DB is right and Abema got it wrong...I recall falling for a mistake in the Kyokai's Ustream graphics, a few years ago.

 

You are correct, and I'd correct his shikona if I get detailed info about the used kanji. The Kyokai uses the hiragana because the kanji apparently isn't in the unicode set (it was much worse in the past when they still used Shift-JIS), so I'm thinking that 靏 also isn't the correct choice, but an approximation too... maybe it's a better choice though, but hard to tell without a close look on the actual banzuke.

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Bumpkin    351

Prior to the use of playoffs to break a tie, if two rikishi had the same record, the rikishi that was ranked the highest was awarded the yusho. For example, in Haru 1941, Yokozuna Futabayama was 14-1 Y and Ozeki Haguroyama was 14-1 J. Why is the non-winner, who had the same record as the winner, designated with a "J", instead of a "D" or some other letter?

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Gernobono    196
25 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

Prior to the use of playoffs to break a tie, if two rikishi had the same record, the rikishi that was ranked the highest was awarded the yusho. For example, in Haru 1941, Yokozuna Futabayama was 14-1 Y and Ozeki Haguroyama was 14-1 J. Why is the non-winner, who had the same record as the winner, designated with a "J", instead of a "D" or some other letter?

I guess this is from "jun-yusho" for "coming in second " 

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Bumpkin    351
40 minutes ago, Gernobono said:

I guess this is from "jun-yusho" for "coming in second " 

No. A "J" is for Jun-yusho (fewer wins than yusho). Obviously, this was not the case back then. There should be a different letter for those circumstances.

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Atenzan    758
5 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

Prior to the use of playoffs to break a tie, if two rikishi had the same record, the rikishi that was ranked the highest was awarded the yusho. For example, in Haru 1941, Yokozuna Futabayama was 14-1 Y and Ozeki Haguroyama was 14-1 J. Why is the non-winner, who had the same record as the winner, designated with a "J", instead of a "D" or some other letter?

Because there was no playoff. Yusho-douten implies the existence of a playoff system (yusho kettei-sen), which was introduced in 1947. Before that, the yusho would be awarded to the rikishi higher up on the banzuke. 

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Bumpkin    351
41 minutes ago, McBugger said:

Because there was no playoff. Yusho-douten implies the existence of a playoff system (yusho kettei-sen), which was introduced in 1947. Before that, the yusho would be awarded to the rikishi higher up on the banzuke. 

What I'm asking for is a different letter than "J" or "D" to signify having the same record as the yusho winner but not having a playoff opportunity. How about an "L" or an "R" for lower rank.

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Atenzan    758
23 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

What I'm asking for is a different letter than "J" or "D" to signify having the same record as the yusho winner but not having a playoff opportunity. How about an "L" or an "R" for lower rank.

準優勝=jun-yusho=the runner-up score. 

優勝同点=yusho-douten=a playoff loser. 

Douten is a type of jun-yusho, and a jun-yusho is just the best score that didn't get the yusho. In this case the term jun-yusho is used correctly and  douten would be false. 

What I would like to see in the DB however is a page of historical notes- saying that official yusho began in 1909, the kettei-sen system in 1947 and this is how yusho were awarded, explanations for the besseki and shinjo systems and so on. It's quite a bit of work but I think most if not all of the info is scattered around the forum. 

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Asashosakari    11,023
34 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

What I'm asking for is a different letter than "J" or "D" to signify having the same record as the yusho winner but not having a playoff opportunity. How about an "L" or an "R" for lower rank.

I don't see how that would clarify much, given that it would introduce notation that's totally unknown from the work of dozens of other individuals who collected sumo statistics prior to the existence of the DB. If somebody actually wonders why there was no playoff, simply telling them that playoffs didn't exist before 1947* achieves exactly the same thing.

And no, "jun-yusho" does not mean "fewer wins than yusho", it's simply "runner-up". Just to be clear: "dōten" (tied score) is not considered something separate from or better than jun-yusho - it's simply a special type of runner-up performance. Prior to 1947, the idea of tied scores just didn't exist because ranking was (in simple terms) considered part of the overall performance.


* There actually was an ad-hoc playoff in juryo in 1933, exactly because it was impossible to distinguish between two rikishi by rank in that case.


Edit: McBugger beat me to most of the points, heh.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Bumpkin    351
46 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

And no, "jun-yusho" does not mean "fewer wins than yusho", it's simply "runner-up". Just to be clear: "dōten" (tied score) is not considered something separate from or better than jun-yusho - it's simply a special type of runner-up performance. Prior to 1947, the idea of tied scores just didn't exist because ranking was (in simple terms) considered part of the overall performance.

I took this quote directly from the database. 

McBugger and Asashosakari; The point I was trying to make is that some rikishi, who had the same record as the yusho winner, never had the chance to yusho. I believe this should be made more obvious. That's all. Thank you for your responses.

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Asashosakari    11,023
On 23.11.2017 at 16:28, Asashosakari said:

Both the Aki and the Kyushu results have the "rikishi with 0 wins or 0 losses don't show up in the query" bug again.

The bimonthly bump about this long-standing and very annoying bug, now affecting the Aki, Kyushu and Hatsu results...

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Bumpkin    351

No Sandamne bouts are listed on the Day 1 torikumi results.

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shimodahito    153

looks like Day 2 Sandanme is working on the data base, but Day 1 matches and results are not registering.  Hats off and glasses raised to all the fixers of this prized resource!!

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Asashosakari    11,023

Osunaarashi's record for the basho should be 0-0, not 0-0-7. The Kyokai took their time to put it on the website but they eventually dated his intai announcement to Friday before the basho.

On a completely different topic: There may well be a reason for it, but why is the 大阪府立体育会館 referred to as the Osaka Municipal Gymnasium on the DB? The  commonly accepted name is Prefectural, I think. 

In addition, according to ja.wiki the Osaka Pref. Gym was undergoing renovations in 1986, and so Haru 1986 took place at the Osaka Municipal Central Gymnasium instead, which is currently not reflected on the DB.

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