Doitsuyama

Sumo Reference Updates

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Asashosakari    8,861
Posted (edited)

Something buggish that might be in the same vein as the double Georgia issue mentioned a couple of months ago... Somebody pointed out to me today that a search for rikishi named Kagamiiwa displays two entries for the same guy (the one with hatsu-dohyo 1830.03), under identical shikona. The same happens when searching via his other two shikona, or restricted to any basho he was active in.

The only difference between the two entries is a different "Last Shikona" entry, one of which is apparently a shikona he only adopted in the middle of his final basho, which means there's no associated banzuke entry for that name. Is that what leads to the additional listing?
 

And while researching that, I just learned that these middle-of-the-basho changers can in fact be found by both names in the relevant basho...neat. So there must be some sort of additional database entry for these guys. Though, normally that seems to lead to such "duplicated" entries only for the basho in which the switch occurred, e.g. Zogabana / Hiraiwa in 1854.11 where it probably makes sense to display both. In other basho they can correctly be found by only one name. (BTW, I see the old banzuke.com data has that guy as Hiraishi?)

Edited by Asashosakari

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Bumpkin    231

Yokozuna Musashuimaru is as listed Real Name: PENITANI Fiamalu. His nephew, Musashikuni is listed as Real Name: FIAMALU Musashimaru Penitani. What is the family name? Penitani or Fiamalu?

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ryafuji    187
11 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

Yokozuna Musashuimaru is as listed Real Name: PENITANI Fiamalu. His nephew, Musashikuni is listed as Real Name: FIAMALU Musashimaru Penitani. What is the family name? Penitani or Fiamalu?

Penitani.

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Asashosakari    8,861
Posted (edited)

I suspect that's an area requiring further attention on the DB, actually.  Especially a lot of the Mongolian names are probably reversed as well, owing mostly to the inconsistent way that non-Japanese names are listed on the Kyokai's database where they originate from. Unfortunately I don't know enough about these guys to be definitely sure which part of their name is the given name in many cases. If someone who has that knowledge can take the time and go through them, it would be useful for the DB's accuracy. (Alternatively, maybe we can do a little community effort during the next between-basho lull and hash it out as a group...)

Edited by Asashosakari
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Bumpkin    231
2 hours ago, ryafuji said:

Penitani.

Thank you.

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Doitsuyama    981
On 17.7.2017 at 23:39, Asashosakari said:

Something buggish that might be in the same vein as the double Georgia issue mentioned a couple of months ago... Somebody pointed out to me today that a search for rikishi named Kagamiiwa displays two entries for the same guy (the one with hatsu-dohyo 1830.03), under identical shikona. The same happens when searching via his other two shikona, or restricted to any basho he was active in.

The only difference between the two entries is a different "Last Shikona" entry, one of which is apparently a shikona he only adopted in the middle of his final basho, which means there's no associated banzuke entry for that name. Is that what leads to the additional listing?
 

And while researching that, I just learned that these middle-of-the-basho changers can in fact be found by both names in the relevant basho...neat. So there must be some sort of additional database entry for these guys. Though, normally that seems to lead to such "duplicated" entries only for the basho in which the switch occurred, e.g. Zogabana / Hiraiwa in 1854.11 where it probably makes sense to display both. In other basho they can correctly be found by only one name. (BTW, I see the old banzuke.com data has that guy as Hiraishi?)

Yes, there are multiple entries in the shikona table for such occurences of shikona changes in the mid of a basho (which frequently happened in earlier times). I won't change the search behaviour now, seems not worth the effort.

Hiraiwa/Hiraishi: Ishi is the usual reading of this (basic) kanji, but I must have had a better source to list it as Hiraiwa, can't recall it now.

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Doitsuyama    981
1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

I suspect that's an area requiring further attention on the DB, actually.  Especially a lot of the Mongolian names are probably reversed as well, owing mostly to the inconsistent way that non-Japanese names are listed on the Kyokai's database where they originate from. Unfortunately I don't know enough about these guys to be definitely sure which part of their name is the given name in many cases. If someone who has that knowledge can take the time and go through them, it would be useful for the DB's accuracy. (Alternatively, maybe we can do a little community effort during the next between-basho lull and hash it out as a group...)

Yes, I can only go with the NSK website listings at this moment, other sources would have the same question marks unless coming from from a really good source. I changed Musashikuni's real name now.

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Bumpkin    231
3 minutes ago, Doitsuyama said:

Yes, I can only go with the NSK website listings at this moment, other sources would have the same question marks unless coming from from a really good source. I changed Musashikuni's real name now.

Thank you, Doitsuyama-san. The database is great!

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Asashosakari    8,861
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Doitsuyama said:

Yes, there are multiple entries in the shikona table for such occurences of shikona changes in the mid of a basho (which frequently happened in earlier times). I won't change the search behaviour now, seems not worth the effort.

Thanks. Just for clarity: With the Kagamiiwa case it's intentional that he has two different 'last shikona' entries?


Edit: Never mind, I think I answered that for myself. I just ran into the kind of analogous Saisu situation again (additional shikona after the last banzuke appearance, this one as sewanin). Makes sense that there are multiple 'lasts' if the final banzuke isn't the (only) last word on a rikishi's shikona history.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Tamanaogijima    130
On 30.5.2017 at 16:57, Asashosakari said:

The kabu data is maintained separately and simply hasn't been updated for a little while.

Should be updated now.

If anyone spots errors, please let me know.

 

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Bumpkin    231
On 7/18/2017 at 20:29, Bumpkin said:
On 7/19/2017 at 08:17, ryafuji said:

Penitani.

Yokozuna Musashuimaru is as listed Real Name: PENITANI Fiamalu. His nephew, Musashikuni is listed as Real Name: FIAMALU Musashimaru Penitani. What is the family name? Penitani or Fiamalu?

So Musashikuni has the exact same first and last name as his uncle. And he has his uncle's shikona as his middle name?

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Sakura    172
7 hours ago, Tamanaogijima said:

Should be updated now.

If anyone spots errors, please let me know.

 

Oshima is listed twice on the list. 

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Raishu    50
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Sakura said:

Oshima is listed twice on the list. 

+ Sadanofuji (Nakagawa Nakamura Oyakata) ended up in Dewanoumi beya instead of Sakaigawa.

Edited by Raishu

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ryafuji    187
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Raishu said:

+ Sadanofuji (Nakagawa Oyakata) ended up in Dewanoumi beya instead of Sakaigawa.

Small correction to that - Nakamura not Nakagawa.  

Edited by ryafuji
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Raishu    50
1 hour ago, ryafuji said:

Small correction to that - Nakamura not Nakagawa.  

Thanks! Fixed.

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Bumpkin    231

On the Kabu page, there is no first name listed for the current holders of the Kise or Shikihide kabus. 

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Asashosakari    8,861
28 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

On the Kabu page, there is no first name listed for the current holders of the Kise or Shikihide kabus. 

There is nothing to list; the first names are Sehei and Hidegoro as indicated, having originated as gyoji kabu.

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Tamanaogijima    130
16 hours ago, Sakura said:

Oshima is listed twice on the list. 

This is just a reflection of Kyokutenho working so hard as oyakata that he needs two myoseki-kabu :-)

 

8 hours ago, Raishu said:

+ Sadanofuji (Nakagawa Nakamura Oyakata) ended up in Dewanoumi beya instead of Sakaigawa.

Aren't they all still Dewanoumi in their hearts over there...?

 

Thanks for spotting the mistakes. Fixed now.

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Tamanaogijima    130
47 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

On the Kabu page, there is no first name listed for the current holders of the Kise or Shikihide kabus. 

17 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

There is nothing to list; the first names are Sehei and Hidegoro as indicated, having originated as gyoji kabu.

Switching to the Japanese version you will see what Asashosakari meant: There they are listed more correctly as "木瀬[11]  (木村 瀬平)" and "式秀[9] (式守 秀五郎)".

On the banzuke they are listed as "Kimura Sehei" and "Shikimori Hidegoro" as well, and not among the gyoji but among the oyakata.

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Bumpkin    231

I have two questions about the "matrix". First, could you remove last bashos record and rank? Second, could you shade the Sanyaku rikishi yellow, like you do on the banzuke?

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Asashosakari    8,861
Posted (edited)

The match counter for the Hakuho-Harumafuji H2H apparently got corrupted a while ago. After Kyushu 2013 it was correctly listed as 27[+1]-16[+1], but after their next meeting in Haru 2014 it was 27[+1]-18[+1] somehow. Harumafuji's total has been 1 too high ever since.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Fukurou    347
3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

The match counter for the Hakuho-Harumafuji H2H apparently got corrupted a while ago. After Kyushu 2013 it was correctly listed as 27[+1]-16[+1], but after their next meeting in Haru 2014 it was 27[+1]-18[+1] somehow. Harumafuji's total has been 1 too high ever since.

What do the numbers in the boxes mean?  [+18]?

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ryafuji    187
1 hour ago, Fukurou said:

What do the numbers in the boxes mean?  [+18]?

It denotes wins in a playoff. So Hakuho and Harumafuji have each won one playoff against the other.

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Jakusotsu    1,616

...just like [-1] denotes a fusen win.

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