Kintamayama 47,329 Posted June 27, 2007 (edited) 17 year old Tokitaizan of Tokitsukaze beya who entered in May, has died suddenly today. He felt bad and was rushed to a hospital where he was pronounced dead. Edited June 27, 2007 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fay 1,677 Posted June 27, 2007 This is more than sad. I'm awfully sorry for him and his parents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiyomaru 0 Posted June 27, 2007 Poor boy, much too young to die... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaioshoryu 68 Posted June 27, 2007 17 years old... Very very sad. Makes you think about how precious life is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Koneko 0 Posted June 27, 2007 That's tragic - at 17 your life has just begun. :-D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonosuke 28 Posted June 28, 2007 As the family of Takashi Saito (just renamed to Tokitaizan) noticed bruise marks on his face, they have contacted the Aichi Prefectural Police to investigate what transpired during the training session that morning. They received a brief report of Tokitsukaze oyakata commenting Saito fell during a rather rigorous training. Saito had one win and three loss record in Mae-zumo at the Natsu basho and he was listed on the banzuke for the first time this basho. Saito has ran away from the heya on June 17 and was reportedly expressed his wish to come home. Saito quit high school in his second year and joined Tokitsukaze beya as his father's acquaintance knew someone at the heya. He never had any amateur sumo experience. He had some karate, judo in middle school and played tennis in high school. His father recommended him to enter Ozumo. In the last month's Ozumo magazine's new recruit page, he could not name any aspiring rikishi nor elaborate on his goal though he said he was interested in martial arts like K-1. If he really collapsed around noon, it must have been a fairly long training session for a Jonokuchi rikishi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otokonoyama 2,735 Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) As the family of Takashi Saito (just renamed to Tokitaizan) noticed bruise marks on his face, they have contacted the Aichi Prefectural Police to investigate what transpired during the training session that morning. They received a brief report of Tokitsukaze oyakata commenting Saito fell during a rather rigorous training. Saito had one win and three loss record in Mae-zumo at the Natsu basho and he was listed on the banzuke for the first time this basho. Saito has ran away from the heya on June 17 and was reportedly expressed his wish to come home. Saito quit high school in his second year and joined Tokitsukaze beya as his father's acquaintance knew someone at the heya. He never had any amateur sumo experience. He had some karate, judo in middle school and played tennis in high school. His father recommended him to enter Ozumo. Sounds like he may have died trying to live out his father's dream, not his own. (Shaking head...) If he really collapsed around noon, it must have been a fairly long training session for a Jonokuchi rikishi. This time lag appears fairly common in heat stroke victims. They train rigorously without rest or water, signs of heat exhaustion and impending heat stroke are missed or ignored, and later things take a sudden turn for the worse. No doubt he was busy cooking and serving at that time of day, with no rest after keiko. Heat in the kitchen combined with the exhaustion from keiko may have had an additive effect. Also, I've seen low-level rikishi get "special treatment" from their seniors & coaches while the sekitori are training. The other low rankers may have finished, but if you are singled-out for some kawaigaru, you'll be doing extra push ups, shiko, or whatever you're made to do. Plenty of slaps, kicks, and the cane to keep you moving. If he had what were viewed as problems, he could have been receiving extra education from his seniors to correct his attitude. Edited June 28, 2007 by Otokonoyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sasanishiki 57 Posted June 28, 2007 I would think that certain bruise marks on teh face would not be something to worry about. Ever been on teh end of a barrage of tsuppari? You're bound to get hit, and possibly around the face. these could well come out in a bruise depending on the severity of the tsuppari. Of course, there are many other chances to get such bruises as sumo is a combat sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madorosumaru 7 Posted June 28, 2007 Tokitaizan felt ill, with difficulty in breathing, around 12:30 and was rushed to a hospital where he was pronounced dead at 2:10. There were abrasions on his face and elbows but tests including a CT scan determined that the cause of death was ischemic heart failure. Tokitsukaze Oyakata told the police that the death was caused by some injury the young rikishi suffered during keiko. Kitanoumi Rijicho made the following statement: "[Tokitaizan] only recently joined Ozumo and had the future ahead of him. I would like to express my condolences [to his family]." He then told the press that he expected a full report from Tokitsukaze Oyakata. The Rijicho added, "Keiko is indispensable in order to move up the banzuke. However, his body may not have been trained enough [to endure the rigors of keiko]. We need to vary the toughness of training according to each individual." He then said, "In addition, we must improve the health management program for all the rikishi [which currently consists of semi-annual physical check-ups]." Tokitaizan had just had a write-up in a sumo magazine. It told how he was an all-around athlete in school but did not have any experience in sumo. In fact, when he participated in mae-zumo last basho, it was his first time he had engaged in a formal sumo bout. He thought he might get away with it because of his athletic ability, but he found out the hard way that he didn't know anything about the finer points of sumo, such as the tachiai. He faced a lot of keiko if he were to move up the ladder. Unfortunately, there was just too much keiko for the young man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 6,401 Posted June 28, 2007 Tokitsukaze Oyakata told the police that the death was caused by some injury the young rikishi suffered during keiko. He did?? (Shaking head...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madorosumaru 7 Posted June 28, 2007 Tokitsukaze Oyakata told the family that their son died from an injury suffered during keiko. That is the oyakata's position--that it was an accidental death resulting from vigorous but standard keiko and not from any untoward action by oyakata or ani-deshi. He has been questioned by the police and I'm sure he told them the exact same thing. Sanspo quotes the father: "[My son] came home to Niigata about five days ago and told us, 'Keiko is really tough and the hierarchical order [at the heya] is very strict. I want to quit.' I convinced him to go back. I couldn't imagine something like this happening. Now, I want to find out the truth." Obviously, what Tokitsukaze is afraid of is that "hazing" was the cause of the young rikishi's death. Was the tough keiko just business as usual or did someone cross the line? The heya is closed to all outsiders and a sign saying "No keiko today" is posted on the door. According to Edagawa Oyakata, who is affiliated with the heya, the shisho is overwhelmed by all this and is in no condition to comment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 47,329 Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Tokitsukaze Oyakata apologized today at an impromptu press conference. "It is inexcusable for such a thing to happen", he said. The bereaved relatives said they agreed to an autopsy and will go by their results. "We do not wish to talk further with the press at this time. We will leave it all to the criminal investigation undertaken by Aichi prefecture's police". They did not divulge any information concerning the autopsy results or funeral arrangements. Edited June 28, 2007 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randomitsuki 2,908 Posted June 28, 2007 Is such an occurrence going to make waves? I mean waves bigger than yaocho allegation waves? In other sports and other countries it will probably be a big deal if it comes out that a heavy training regimen might have caused the death of a sportsman. How is it for ozumou? Do people say "it's a combat sport, so things like that will happen", or will we soon see people suggesting that the whole way ozumou is organized should be changed, and the "system of slavery" be abandoned? What do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 210 Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Is such an occurrence going to make waves? I mean waves bigger than yaocho allegation waves? In other sports and other countries it will probably be a big deal if it comes out that a heavy training regimen might have caused the death of a sportsman. How is it for ozumou? Do people say "it's a combat sport, so things like that will happen", or will we soon see people suggesting that the whole way ozumou is organized should be changed, and the "system of slavery" be abandoned? What do you think? I seriously doubt the death was due to "too tough training". Usually in these young athletes' instant deaths there is some undiagnosed heart problem like hypertrophic cardiomypathy. There are other sports where the momentary stress is as immense as in sumo training and athletes throw up and get all worn out and half dead instead of fully dead. If the cause of death was heart as was suggested it is hardly any "keiko accident" related thing unless he got some massive blow on the worst possible moment on the exactly right spot on the chest and caused a fatal arytmia. In that case it would be extremely bad luck. It is still amazing how rarely there are deaths in sumo and often they seem to be on the younger side who die suddenly. When was the last time some 30+ rikishi died suddenly without a good reason? You can't really kill a healthy 17 year old athlete by making him go over the limits. There are hardly any limits what human body can take in form of going to extremes in physical training without inserting knives in hearts or blowing up bombs within 1 metre or forcefeeding syanide etc. Push Jakusotsu to the limits for 4 hours in a row so that he throws up and losing his mind and is ready for mental ward and he feels like dying but he won't die anyway. (example was Jakusotsu due to his earlier comment of not engaging into physical intense activity at all so he is not in good shape and not 17 either). Shit happens, some guys win the adverse lottery prize with deaths like these. Edited June 28, 2007 by Kaikitsune Makoto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,279 Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) When was the last time some 30+ rikishi died suddenly without a good reason? Nakabuchi a few years ago? Edited June 28, 2007 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 210 Posted June 28, 2007 There are hardly any limits what human body can take in form of going to extremes in physical training So what about cases like Korey Stringer? Take away any water and have someone train in extreme heat and all of what you wrote goes out the window. Well that is true yes but wouldn't they drink quite a lot during keiko, even jonokuchi... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madorosumaru 7 Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Jiji Press just reported on the results of the autopsy that was held at the Niigata University Medical School. The findings were that there were abrasions and under-the-skin bleeding all over the body. There was also some damage to the cartilages in his rib area. It appears that traumatic shock from outside blow/injury caused the acute heart failure. The police is questioning those that were present about the exact situation at the time the young man fell ill. The family made the following statement through the Niigata Prefecture Police: "We are satisfied with the results of the autopsy. We do not want to make a bigger issue of this matter so we would appreciate the curtailing of the press coverage. We would like to leave everything after this to the Aichi-ken police investigation." Edited June 28, 2007 by madorosumaru Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eto 0 Posted June 29, 2007 (edited) His performance there was good enough to see him officially listed on the banzuke for the Nagoya basho. It was reported, however, that Tokitaizan ran away from his stable three times during the month of June. dont like the sound of that final sentence tho Edited June 29, 2007 by eto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 47,329 Posted June 29, 2007 (edited) Personally, I find it quite ironic that this oyakata was complaining about how Asa demolished his Toyonoshima when he injured him during "exaggerated keiko"and bad mouthed him, while knowing full well these things happen. Now, let's see how he gets out of this one. My personal opinion is that he won't. Edited June 29, 2007 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 210 Posted June 29, 2007 (edited) The autopsy didn't reveal any abnormalities in his body that might have triggered the sudden death so evidenlt no underlying heart problem. He lost consciousness during butsukarigeiko suddenly and was prounounced dead soon after at the hospital where he was taken. His face was all red and swollen and cigarette burn marks in his thighs and bruises and so but the theory seems to be that it was some kind of "shock" that caused the heart failure. Mental, physical, who knows but evidently you can kill a 17 year old at keiko...Body is back at his homeplace now, little sister was naturally shocked and his dad has over 200 systolic pressure now and doesn't feel well. Tragic stuff. Uncle says he was sort of forced to go back when he escaped and now says "It would have been better not to make him go back..". Edited June 29, 2007 by Kaikitsune Makoto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ossetian Yokozuna 1 Posted June 30, 2007 (edited) It is unbelevable. Are there street hoolygans in OZUMO or may be there are slave sistem? 1. (Poking the other guy...) & (Beaten...)............ 2. (Carried away on a stretcher...)............ 3. (Pulling hair...) & :-( Edited June 30, 2007 by Ossetian Yokozuna Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaioshoryu 68 Posted June 30, 2007 cigarette burn marks in his thighs Unbelievable.... I knew fresh recruits was hazed and beaten with sticks and things, but to burn someone with a cigarette is just.... (Carried away on a stretcher...) Tragic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Koneko 0 Posted June 30, 2007 The question in my mind is, will this change anything? What I reacted to most strongly when reading up about sumo is the way new recruits are treated. Will this spark a serious debate in Japan, or will people just accept this as 'one of those things that just happen'? I mean, cigarette burns on his thighs...jesus. (Carried away on a stretcher...) Running away from the heya seems to be pretty common, though. I remember reading an interview with Kaio where he told he'd too run away once, and his heya seemed to me one of the "kinder" ones. "Most rikishi have experienced that," the interviewer (Mainoumi?) replied. And I can understand that - it's a hard life, and most of these kids have probably never been away from home before. But when your child shows up on your doorstep three times in one month, begging to come home... Big warning signal IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotonosato 1 Posted July 2, 2007 cigarette burn marks in his thighs Unbelievable.... I knew fresh recruits was hazed and beaten with sticks and things, but to burn someone with a cigarette is just.... B-) Tragic. Actually, we had a minor outbreak of cigarette burns at a junior high school where I used to work. The "bad" boys were doing it to themselves! They thought it was cool to see who could endure the most pain. Somehow, I think the situation here is a bit different. This kid suffered enough pain already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites