Latest stock exchange news - kabu, Oyakata transfers, etc.

[Kaitetsu 276]

6 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Or just simply had a better working relationship with Kaiō. After all, Kyokutenhō was an absorptee. 

Another thing that I thought that may make more sense, maybe Kaio and Kaisei are planning to exchange kabu, with Kaio reviving the (more prestigious?) Tomozuna-beya and making Kaisei Asakayama-oyakata?

[Akinomaki 39,486]

On 27/05/2023 at 07:21, Asashosakari said:

The idea a decade ago when it looked like the government might force them to clean up their act was that the Kyokai would be paying a "fair" price to retiring oyakata to bring the shares under central ownership, so it would have been a decades-long process, but one with a clearly defined goal. The notion that kabu are to be centrally managed somehow made it into the new rules anyway, but anything related to a possible buyback scheme was quickly and quietly dropped, in lieu of some wink-wink-nudge-nudge nonsense about how a current holder may pay his predecessor a "consultancy fee" - essentially an officially sanctioned kickback for having recommended the successor to the Kyokai in the first place. But even that seems to be getting flaunted with impunity, seeing as how Toyonoshima was clearly paying long before he was ever going to be actually acknowledged as the successor, which obviously contravened the publicly stated notion that all shares are meant to be "controlled" by the organization nowadays.

I checked the thread about the change to the new status for the NSK and it looked then as if the NSK could take full control. Asahi has a series on kabu related articles, except for the first part behind the paywall - tedious to read line by line with the search function, some day I'll use the 1 month free trial to collect a bunch of interesting articles. A recent one was about Magaki having to leave the NSK because he couldn't present his kabu certificate at the deadline, he had sold it to Tokitenku already. (with a 2010 pic of the later Terunofuji as shindeshi)

o

At that point it would have been easy to really take full control of the kabu, but though everything was put in rules to do it, it only turned out to be a pretence and didn't actually happen.

The latest article is about selling kabu (another recent one talked about 300 million yen as a price - in the past) - with a pic of Wajima having to leave the NSK because he used the kabu as collateral for a loan.

o

It tells about a 2016 paper by later NSK external expert advisor for education Toshiaki Hirahara about the change of corporate status

On 19/12/2018 at 15:04, Akinomaki said:

On 19/12/2018 at 13:43, Akinomaki said:

6. An advisor to improve the results of educating rikishi at different levels will be nominated, from new recruits to sekitori - an external expert will be entrusted with this

The external expert advisor for education is the former chief of the inquiry office at the Committee on judicial affairs of the House of Councillors, Toshiaki Hirahara 櫟原利明

the article tells that in it he condoned the selling of kabu - but actually he did it very politician-like and not directly: https://www.sangiin.go.jp/japanese/annai/chousa/rippou_chousa/backnumber/2016pdf/20160601003.pdf

[Yubinhaad 11,499]

Musical chairs:

Araiso-oyakata (former Ozeki Wakashimazu) has retired from the Kyokai.

Kitajin-oyakata (former Sekiwake Kotoyuki) is now Araiso, and owns the myoseki.

Sanoyama-oyakata (former Maegashira Tenkaiho) is now Kitajin.

As reported by Katooshu, Chiyonokuni has retired and is now the new Sanoyama-oyakata.

[Asashosakari 18,650]

https://www.sumo.or.jp/IrohaKyokaiInformation/detail?id=605 for the aforementioned.

Given that they explicitly named just Kotoyuki's change as 継承・襲名, should we assume that Chiyonokuni is only borrowing?

Only a year and a half of sanyo status for 66-year-old Wakashimazu, having gone into it in January last year.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Asashosakari

[Koorifuu 858]

Much like the Miyagino/Magaki precedent, it might be that the sanyo recipient was paid off for an early post-retirement retirement?

On the aforementioned case, it could've been a machination for the myoseki not to leave the heya, but the net result here is that Hanaregoma loses an oyakata (down to 3) and Kokonoe wins one (up to 4).
Ichimon-wise, Nishonoseki loses a slot to Takasago.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Koorifuu

[Asashosakari 18,650]

51 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

Ichimon-wise, Nishonoseki loses a slot to Takasago.

In membership terms yes, but in voting power terms it's a wash, since no kabu went across ichimon lines in these changes. The general assumption is that oyakata on loan are required to cast their lot with the kabu-owning ichimon.

 

[Yubinhaad 11,499]

5 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Given that they explicitly named just Kotoyuki's change as 継承・襲名, should we assume that Chiyonokuni is only borrowing?

They're sometimes inconsistent with the way they use it in the oshirase for a newly-retired rikishi. The one for Ishiura > Magaki said keisho-shumei, but the one for Hakuho > Magaki didn't. Maybe it's only done when the ownership actually changes hands on the day of retirement, and not when the retiree is already acknowledged as the owner?

It would be much simpler if they would just use the official terminology for a non-owner, ichijiteki (一時的), in the oshirase, which is how it's done in the business reports.

Oh speaking of which, in last year's report there are two entries for myoseki keisho dated to October 17th and 19th which don't match anything in Tamanaogijima's changelog. I wonder if one relates to Shimanoumi/Izutsu, since that would be after his 28th basho as a sekitori (Hochiyama rule)?

令和４年１０月１７日 「年寄名跡に関する規程」第４条第５項及び第７条に基づく、年寄名跡の継承承認の件

令和４年１０月１９日 「年寄名跡に関する規程」第４条第５項及び第７条に基づく、年寄名跡の継承承認の件

[Asashosakari 18,650]

40 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:

Oh speaking of which, in last year's report there are two entries for myoseki keisho dated to October 17th and 19th which don't match anything in Tamanaogijima's changelog. I wonder if one relates to Shimanoumi/Izutsu, since that would be after his 28th basho as a sekitori (Hochiyama rule)?

令和４年１０月１７日 「年寄名跡に関する規程」第４条第５項及び第７条に基づく、年寄名跡の継承承認の件

令和４年１０月１９日 「年寄名跡に関する規程」第４条第５項及び第７条に基づく、年寄名跡の継承承認の件

How nice of them to have anonymized these two entries as opposed to the other four in the report which related to changes with immediate public consequences...  I'm not sure we'll ever find out, but I do wonder now what the 年寄名跡に関する規程 regulations actually contain.

I do like your hypothesis about when it's notified as shumei only and when as keisho-shumei. The fact that those two entries are keisho without shumei seems to support that as well.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari 18,650]

20 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

https://www.sumo.or.jp/IrohaKyokaiInformation/detail?id=605 for the aforementioned.

Given that they explicitly named just Kotoyuki's change as 継承・襲名, should we assume that Chiyonokuni is only borrowing?

Duties list updated - Chiyonokuni is shown as owning the Sanoyama kabu.

@Tamanaogijima Have fun trying to figure out which date to enter for his original acquisition.  Simply replacing Chiyootori's entire tenure since August 2016 isn't on, sadly, since Chiyonokuni wasn't actually kabu-eligible yet back then (only 24 sekitori basho at the time). Maybe the least messy solution would be to go for the start of the vacancy period after Tosayutaka's loan ended - that roughly corresponds to when Chiyootori lost his sekitori ranking, too, so by wildly hypothesizing an analogy to Toyonoshima's case it would make sense that he wasn't able to pay for it any longer and Chiyonokuni stepped in. Maybe others have a better idea, though?

[Sakura 1,459]

7 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Duties list updated - Chiyonokuni is shown as owning the Sanoyama kabu.

@Tamanaogijima Have fun trying to figure out which date to enter for his original acquisition.  Simply replacing Chiyootori's entire tenure since August 2016 isn't on, sadly, since Chiyonokuni wasn't actually kabu-eligible yet back then (only 24 sekitori basho at the time). Maybe the least messy solution would be to go for the start of the vacancy period after Tosayutaka's loan ended - that roughly corresponds to when Chiyootori lost his sekitori ranking, too, so by wildly hypothesizing an analogy to Toyonoshima's case it would make sense that he wasn't able to pay for it any longer and Chiyonokuni stepped in. Maybe others have a better idea, though?

Is it possible to leave it blank as unknown?

[Tamanaogijima 734]

@Asashosakari Had fun trying to figure that out I'll go with your suggestion to set the start of Chiyonokuni's ownership to the day after Tosayutaka's tenure (April 20, 2018). For the time in between I'll set the owner not to Chiyootori, though, but to Chiyonofuji. Formally I would expect as a first step an ownership switch Sanoyama<->Kokonoe between Chiyotaikai and the Chiyonofuji estate after the latters pass-away (to keep the heya alive) and only as a second step an inheritance of Sanoyama some time later to whomever is in line at that time.

Going through the old oyakata and duties lists, Chiyootori was never listed as owner of Sanoyama.

 

[Asashosakari 18,650]

Yeah, that makes sense. I think we did dive back into the available information some time ago, and what the articles after Chiyonofuji's death and the kabu switch were saying was really just "Sanoyama is said to be owned by Chiyootori now". It might have been nothing more than somebody's wild guess between the two eligible candidates (Chiyootori and Chiyotairyu). 

[Tamanaogijima 734]

On 21/07/2023 at 16:34, Yubinhaad said:

Oh speaking of which, in last year's report there are two entries for myoseki keisho dated to October 17th and 19th which don't match anything in Tamanaogijima's changelog. I wonder if one relates to Shimanoumi/Izutsu, since that would be after his 28th basho as a sekitori (Hochiyama rule)?

令和４年１０月１７日 「年寄名跡に関する規程」第４条第５項及び第７条に基づく、年寄名跡の継承承認の件

令和４年１０月１９日 「年寄名跡に関する規程」第４条第５項及び第７条に基づく、年寄名跡の継承承認の件

 

I now wonder if the other might be the Sanoyama transfer to Chiyonokuni. 10.2022 is six years after Chiyonofuji's death and thus exceeding the presumed extended sell-off period of five years, but even after discounting all the wild guesses it still seems there has been no viable candidate (within Kokonoe-beya) for the Sanoyama succession for a long time.

[Asashosakari 18,650]

11 minutes ago, Tamanaogijima said:

 

I now wonder if the other might be the Sanoyama transfer to Chiyonokuni. 10.2022 is six years after Chiyonofuji's death and thus exceeding the presumed extended sell-off period of five years, but even after discounting all the wild guesses it still seems there has been no viable candidate (within Kokonoe-beya) for the Sanoyama succession for a long time.

I almost suggested earlier that the hypothesized 2018 hand-off (post-Tosayutaka) is no longer viable and we might as well go with 2021 (post-Satoyama), but then I remembered the recent Shukun Post "deadline is still only two or three years for bereaved families" claim. Even if that's just an informal way of handling it, six years seems like way too long, even if the share was on the borrowers circuit.

In any case, yeah, I don't see who in Kokonoe-beya would have been the official holder as late as September 2022 if it wasn't Chiyonokuni:

• Chiyootori is out for obvious reasons
• Chiyotairyu retired two months later, and Shukan Post claimed they considered trying to acquire a different kabu for him
• Chiyonoo would have used it for himself by now
• Chiyoshoma doesn't have the citizenship
• Chiyomaru would be a viable option (reached 30 sekitori basho in 2018.07), but his career wasn't in much different shape than Chiyonokuni's by September 2022, so it would be odd to dispose of a myoseki at that point

 

[Akinomaki 39,486]

We had no details in this thread and I had assumed that Magaki is on loan, but Chiyonokuni as new oyakata in the middle on the toshiryori duty list shows that only Furiwake and below are on loan and Ishiura owns Magaki.

Enho likely will have to leave at once, 29 sekitori basho are only borderline and Hakuho won't get his hands on another kabu that easy.

[Koorifuu 858]

^ Akiseyama's intai thread - now Izutsu.

Is there any speculation on what this means for Shimanoumi?

[Gernobono 447]

20 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

Is there any speculation on what this means for Shimanoumi

[speculationmode on]

5 more years of sumo

[speculationmode off]

[Fashiritētā 154]

With his Banzuke luck, i see him no lower than Sd 5 at the end of 5 years, give or take.

[Jakusotsu 5,721]

1 hour ago, Fashiritētā said:

With his Banzuke luck, i see him no lower than Sd 5 J14 at the end of 5 years, give or take.

fixed

[Akinomaki 39,486]

I guess that Akiseyama like his predecessor will either be out after 6 months or so or already has the next kabu in reach to borrow

[Yamanashi 3,669]

9 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

I guess that Akiseyama like his predecessor will either be out after 6 months or so or already has the next kabu in reach to borrow

He went to Nihon University, so he'll always be employable.

[Akinomaki 39,486]

Ex-Touki sumodb.Rikishi=38 as of today has left the NSK, for a while now Sendagawa after several borrowed myoseki, in the end at Nishikido-beya, after a switch to Kokonoe from Takasago-beya. www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2023/09/07/kiji/20230907s000050004210

Edited September 7, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Seiyashi 4,068]

Guess that's Akiseyama's berth for now, then.

[Akinomaki 39,486]

38 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Ex-Touki sumodb.Rikishi=38 as of today has left the NSK, for a while now Sendagawa after several borrowed myoseki, in the end at Nishikido-beya, after a switch to Kokonoe from Takasago-beya. https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2023/09/07/kiji/20230907s00005000421000c.htm

After a long time now more rikishi than oyakata at Nishikido-beya.

I guess that even if he officially owned the myoseki, he hadn't fully paid for it yet and was short of money. If someone bought him out, he has to have wealthy koenkai members and plenty of funds.

Nowadays I think mainly of Miyagino and Nishonoseki in that category, but if the kabu stays in the ichimon, Asanoyama may be the one who bought it.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Asashosakari 18,650]

This feels rather sudden and untimely, considering he was on the shimpan crew and we're half a week from a honbasho. No immediate replacement announced either, which further makes it look like the powers that be were caught off-guard as well.

Former long-time shimpan Jinmaku (ex-Fujinoshin) to fill in? Not sure if he's up to it at 62 years of age, but it's not like Takasago-ichimon is spoiled for choice:

• already shimpan: Azumazeki (ex-Takamisakari), Takasago (ex-Asasekiryu), Tanigawa (ex-Hokutoriki)
• off-limits as holders of executive roles: Hakkaku (ex-Hokutoumi), Wakamatsu (ex-Asanowaka), Kokonoe (ex-Chiyotaikai), Nishikido (ex-Mitoizumi)
• oyakata who have barely arrived: Kimigahama (ex-Okinoumi, since January), Sanoyama (ex-Chiyonokuni, since July)
• oyakata on a borrowed kabu: Oyama (ex-Chiyootori)

Edit: Follow-up posted on-topic here. Jinmaku it is.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Asashosakari