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Chiganoura-beya will become Tokiwayama-beya with the start of next year. The present Tokiwayama, the previous Chiganoura, turns 70 in April and has to leave the NSK after the 5 years extension from retirement at age 65. There he had switched myoseki with the present Chiganoura, but apparently not permanently, because they'll switch back. According to related persons, they won't wait till April, the former Chiganoura at the senshuraku party had made the address: "That basho was the last". There also is a hint that the heya premises still belong to the former, pointing out that for a while the present location will be used. http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2020/11/23/kiji/20201123s00005000054000c.html

Edited by Akinomaki
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First time there will have been a Tokiwayama-beya since August 1897 according to Japanese Wikipedia. The oyakata apparently didn't coach any sekitori in 21 years there... meaming Takakeishou, Takanoshou and Takagenji will be the first Tokiwayama sekitori in over 150 years, as the previous iteration of the stable shut down in 1870.

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I suppose this means that Chiganoura would be available for Dewanoumi-ichimon use.

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12 hours ago, Atenzan said:

First time there will have been a Tokiwayama-beya since August 1897 according to Japanese Wikipedia. The oyakata apparently didn't coach any sekitori in 21 years there... meaming Takakeishou, Takanoshou and Takagenji will be the first Tokiwayama sekitori in over 150 years, as the previous iteration of the stable shut down in 1870.

To put it a bit more dramatically, the last Tokiwayama-beya sekitori kachikoshi was in Edo. (May 1868)

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But they also haven't lost a match in 150 years. That's a streak they should be proud of!

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13 hours ago, Sakura said:

I suppose this means that Chiganoura would be available for Dewanoumi-ichimon use.


I was thinking the same thing, if nothing else it would be a handy stopgap for ex-Bushuyama, who might have to jump out of the Kasugayama hot seat soon. Ex-Masudayama only ended up in Nishonoseki ichimon because his successor took the heya there (via Takanohana's doomed breakaway), so he surely has no loyalty to them when it comes to the disposal of his myoseki.


While I'm here, I read this entertaining domino theory last night revolving around the forthcoming Takasago change:

Wakamatsu takes over Azumazeki-beya.

Takasago switches to Wakamatsu (back to his original myoseki for his five years as sanyo).

Nishikijima takes over Takasago-beya.

Izutsu (Toyonoshima) switches to Nishikijima.

Kakuryu's citizenship finally comes through and Izutsu is conveniently vacant.

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2 hours ago, Yubinhaad said:

While I'm here, I read this entertaining domino theory last night revolving around the forthcoming Takasago change:

Wakamatsu takes over Azumazeki-beya.

What will happen to ex-Takamisakari? Switch back to Furiwake?

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32 minutes ago, code_number3 said:

What will happen to ex-Takamisakari? Switch back to Furiwake?

He's still listed as holding it, yes. Furiwake is the only vacant kabu now, after Kotoshogiku assumed the Hidenoyama name.

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3 hours ago, Yubinhaad said:

Kakuryu's citizenship finally comes through and Izutsu is conveniently vacant.

That's not needed for 5 years after he retires though.  The issue is he can't become a jun-toshiyori without citizenship, not that he might not have a kabu.  I guess it's fine for a long-term plan of getting Toyonoshima off the kabu that he'll presumably want, but it's not the holdup for Kakuryu not retiring yet, to my knowledge.

Edited by Gurowake
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23 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

That's not needed for 5 years after he retires though.  The issue is he can't become a jun-toshiyori without citizenship, not that he might not have a kabu.  I guess it's fine for a long-term plan of getting Toyonoshima off the kabu that he'll presumably want, but it's not the holdup for Kakuryu not retiring yet, to my knowledge.


Sure, I think the writer of the theory was more excited by Toyonoshima finally getting Nishikijima (which he was supposedly paying for until he couldn't afford it) than in the minutiae of Kyokai regulations or Kakuryu's future.

For what it's worth, someone will have to formally acquire Izutsu within the next two years, because it will have reached the three-year limit for a retired oyakata/deceased's estate to hold onto it, which as far as I know is still in force.

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Chris Gould is referring to Chiganoura switching to 'Hitachiyama'. Is that an alternative reading of Tokuwayama, or has he just got it wrong?

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27 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Chris Gould is referring to Chiganoura switching to 'Hitachiyama'. Is that an alternative reading of Tokuwayama, or has he just got it wrong?

Just wrong, apparently.

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1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:
2 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

Chris Gould is referring to Chiganoura switching to 'Hitachiyama'. Is that an alternative reading of Tokuwayama, or has he just got it wrong?

Just wrong, apparently.

Might be jumping the gun and/or confusion because Takakeisho's late father-in-law was Hatachiyama (not Hitachiyama) oyakata (kabu currently held by ex-Tochinohana), and if the reports about the old Hatachiyama beya being kept in good condition by his mother-in-law are true, the old Hatachiyama beya sign is probably still knocking around somewhere. There's even rumours that the old Hatachiyama beya is being renovated and the to-be-Tokiwayama beya might move there, although that's really just speculation at this point. It's probably unprecedented in current times that an active rikishi has a stronger claim to the heya's premises than the shisho, although I could be corrected on that.

Should also be noted before anyone asks that the Hatachiyama kabu is in the Dewanoumi ichimon, and Chiganoura is in the Nishonoseki ichimon.

優勝&結婚の貴景勝 新居に土俵あり、コロナ禍でも稽古OK|NEWSポストセブン (news-postseven.com)

Edited by Seiyashi
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7 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said:

Note also that 常陸山 Hitachiyama and 常盤山 Tokiwayama differ only by the middle kanji.

That's a very odd confusion to make with the historical yokozuna; recency bias suggests the confusion with Hatachiyama is more likely (albeit a lot harder to make via kanji). It certainly opens up the question of whether Chris' confusion was via romaji/kana or kanji.

Edited by Seiyashi

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5 hours ago, Kamitsuumi said:

Note also that 常陸山 Hitachiyama and 常盤山 Tokiwayama differ only by the middle kanji.

We should also note that there is no Hitachiyama Oyakata currently or lately, so the reason for the confusion is unclear.

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Former Maegashira Hochiyama has today switched from the Kimigahama myoseki (owned by Okinoumi) and is now borrowing the Furiwake myoseki, which in theory should still belong to the estate of the former Azumazeki-oyakata (ex-Ushiomaru).

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Newly appointed  Takasago Oyakata (ex Asasekiryuu)has been assigned to the judging department.

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So there are four kabu that are scheduled to become vacant after Haru and during the Natsu basho. This means there could be a string of retirements among active rikishi between the next two basho.

- Dekiyama (ex Dewanohana) vacant 5/13/21
- Matsuchiyama (ex Banryuyama) vacant 5/4/21
- Chiganoura (ex Masudayama) vacant 4/10/21
- Kiriyama (ex Kurosegawa) vacant 5/13/21

There is currently only one vacant kabu available for borrowing which is Kimigahama owned by Okinoumi. And I don't think we've heard any news about ex Bushuyama vacating the Kasugayama kabu owned by Ikioi yet.

Edited by WAKATAKE
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6 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

This means there could be a string of retirements among active rikishi between the next two basho.

Possibly, but not necessarily. The majority of the recent intai (last couple years) of those who have become oyakata have been from those who have already controlled a myoseki during their time as a rikishi (Kotoshogiku, Tochiozan, Yoshikaze, Takekaze, Aminishiki, Kisenosato). The others seem to be a bit in the minority (Goeido, Homarefuji, Sokokurai, Toyonoshima, Tenkaiho). So it doesn't seem to be a given that there will be a wave of retirements... but I think as you note, in the event that Ikioi needs to jump ship at least there will be a few potential landing spots (at least temporarily if not permanently) for Bushuyama.

I wonder whether we might see Takarafuji eventually pick up Kiriyama and loan it back out, for instance. And the clock is ticking somewhat more urgently on resolving the Izutsu, Otowayama and Furiwake situations.

Edited by themistyseas
forgot Tenkaiho and Furiwake

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44 minutes ago, themistyseas said:

Possibly, but not necessarily. The majority of the recent intai (last couple years) of those who have become oyakata have been from those who have already controlled a myoseki during their time as a rikishi (Kotoshogiku, Tochiozan, Yoshikaze, Takekaze, Aminishiki, Kisenosato). The others seem to be a bit in the minority (Goeido, Homarefuji, Sokokurai, Toyonoshima, Tenkaiho). So it doesn't seem to be a given that there will be a wave of retirements... but I think as you note, in the event that Ikioi needs to jump ship at least there will be a few potential landing spots (at least temporarily if not permanently) for Bushuyama.

I wonder whether we might see Takarafuji eventually pick up Kiriyama and loan it back out, for instance. And the clock is ticking somewhat more urgently on resolving the Izutsu, Otowayama and Furiwake situations.

Actually, this just posted as well, so there the Izutsu situation may resolve itself faster than we realized.

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