Kintamayama

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Btw, I wonder why no one has picked up the Furiwake-kabu until today... Obviously the pressure has gone now after so many oyakata were forced to retire early.

The alternate reading could be that it's already guaranteed to go to Toki, but they didn't want to have him change yet because that would have looked like a vote of non-confidence in Chiyotaikai before his kadoban basho. Especially since Toki is now located in Kokonoe-beya. :-)

(Never let it be said I can't engage in conspiracy-mongering if I want to.)

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The alternate reading could be that it's already guaranteed to go to Toki, but they didn't want to have him change yet because that would have looked like a vote of non-confidence in Chiyotaikai before his kadoban basho. Especially since Toki is now located in Kokonoe-beya. (Showing respect...)

(Never let it be said I can't engage in conspiracy-mongering if I want to.)

Maybe that's some kind of curse (good or bad is anyone's guess): "As long as no one frees the Sanoyama-kabu Chiyotaikai will not need it." So we'll basically see Toki turning 65 as Sanoyama, Chiyotaikai kabodan-and-kk-ing until 63 and then finally picking up Sanoyama. I wonder who will become Kokonoe in the meantime... :-P

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Then we have Inagawa who is retiring on September 4.

That was yesterday. Are there any articles on the current kabu situation (kabu swapping??)??

It was reported earlier in this thread that ex-Kinkaiyama might get Inagawa and Iwakiyama would end up with Sekinoto.

Based on that, I assume that ex-Kotonishiki won't be a potential loaner, since Otsukasa has already reached the buttom of Juryo and might be gone pretty soon. To me, current Wakafuji (Ex-Yotsukasa) seems to be a candidate for Sekinoto (same Ichimon), but what do I know ... (In a state of confusion...)

The future scenario:

Kinkaiyama -> Inagawa (owner)

Yotsukasa -> Sekinoto (borrowed from Iwakiyama)

Otsukasa -> Wakafuji (owner)

Pure speculation as always. Maybe one of the kabu experts can elaborate on this.

Edited by Raishu

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That was yesterday. Are there any articles on the current kabu situation (kabu swapping??)??

I haven't seen any. Actually, lately there aren't even articles announcing retirements. I can't remember where I read it (probably the 2channel threads) and whether it's even accurate, but supposedly there have been recent changes to Japanese privacy laws which preclude the press from reporting details on such retirements any longer. Allegedly this also affects retirements from active competition, more specifically the reporting of merit payments, with Tochiazuma last year the first top-ranker for whom it couldn't be reported anymore.

Other recent bits from the current 2channel thread (which had almost 200 posts in the last two weeks, blergh): Somebody dated Otsukasa's purchase of Wakafuji-kabu to December 2007, no exact day given, and of course no source. And somebody pointed out that the Araiso-beya homepage now officially acknowledges that the stable is closing after Aki basho, not that this is coming as a huge surprise or anything. Also, the basho comments by Kokei and Koriki may be read to imply that they're retiring after the basho (and only Arawashi will move somewhere else), but I'm not so sure of that.

The future scenario:

Kinkaiyama -> Inagawa (owner)

Yotsukasa -> Sekinoto (borrowed from Iwakiyama)

Otsukasa -> Wakafuji (owner)

Makes perfect sense to me. :-) Anyway, I don't think we'll get to hear anything until Otsukasa actually needs the kabu, since there's no urgency to any of it with Inagawa-kabu unfilled. And maybe I'm just getting sentimental, but I wouldn't write off Otsupotsu's career just yet. (In a state of confusion...)

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No hard facts yet (probably to come within the next 12 hours, though), but I wanted to pull up the thread and the (possibly) relevant rumours from a few months ago:

Googling around, I came across this thread ...

...in post 196 (Feb 13th) somebody is making the interesting claims that the following active rikishi are owning these stocks...:

Tamakasuga - Tateyama

And I have been wondering all the time why Asahiyama was still allowed to hold that second Tateyama-kabu and why Tamakasuga still had none... (Fusen...)

Just in case. :-(

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No hard facts yet (probably to come within the next 12 hours, though)...

That's what madorosumaru wrote in "Tamakasuga to Retire":

According to Sports Hochi, Tamakasuga has already acquired the Tateyama myoseki and will assume that name as an oyakata.

Since Tateyama myoseki was used by ex-Ozutsu (Otake beya), there might be further swappings soon... (In a state of confusion...)

Edited by Raishu

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According to Sports Hochi, Tamakasuga has already acquired the Tateyama myoseki and will assume that name as an oyakata.

Since Tateyama myoseki was used by ex-Ozutsu (Otake beya), there might be further swappings soon... (In a state of confusion...)

When a rikishi "officially" announces his retirement, he either must leaves the Kyokai or stays with the Kyokai in some capacity - meaning having a Toshiyori Myoseki or renting one (or being offered a position of Sewanin or Wakaimnogashira). He can also be a heya manager but still out of the Kyokai.

It's been known for some time that Tamaksasuga had Tateyama and he already decided he was going to retire after today and even went to the Judges room to tell them not put him on the Torikumi today (the senshuraku), it was obvious he was retiring as one can only miss his bout by having a kyujo notice or retirement (or else he will have a Fusen loss). However no papers, wire services or NHK reported what Toshiyori myoseki he would be inheriting or renting so there was certain agreement not to report the fact that he had Tateyama. Hochi only reported this morning and most others have not yet even at noon.

Tamakasuga will soon have the announcement so we may find out about Ozutsu's future. Perhaps the reason for delaying the announcement was to have Ozutsu arrange a new Toshiyori kabu.

At the moment the only one available is Furiwake, owned by Takamisakari.

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It's been known for some time that Tamaksasuga had Tateyama and he already decided he was going to retire after today and even went to the Judges room to tell them not put him on the Torikumi today (the senshuraku), it was obvious he was retiring as one can only miss his bout by having a kyujo notice or retirement (or else he will have a Fusen loss).

He does technically have a kyujo notice for senshuraku, I think...he is listed on the kyujo page of the Kyokai's website, and they don't do that in the event of an immediate intai. In any case, I don't think it's really possible to call it a delay. Since he competed in his bout yesterday (unlike others whose last "activity" was a fusenpai), he was still active as of September 27, and he will be retired (and becoming Tateyama) as of September 28. It's my impression of the way the Kyokai officially records these events that you can't be active and already retired on the exact same day anyway.

At the moment the only one available is Furiwake, owned by Takamisakari.

I believe Inagawa is also open.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Here we go...

With Tamakasuga assuming the Tateyama name, Otake-beya's 52-year-old former Ozutsu will be retiring from the Kyokai as of the 28th.

I believe Inagawa is also open.

And now it's Sekinoto that is available, as ex-Kinkaiyama has changed to Inagawa. Another rumour that has turned out correct; if the second part of it is also right, Kinkaiyama is likely now owning that kabu after merely renting Sekinoto before.

Edited by Asashosakari

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And now it's Sekinoto that is available, as ex-Kinkaiyama has changed to Inagawa.

Sekinoto was acquired by Iwakiyama in June.

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And now it's Sekinoto that is available, as ex-Kinkaiyama has changed to Inagawa.

Sekinoto was acquired by Iwakiyama in June.

And another rumour from back in February turns out true. Intriguing. (Shaking head...)

Edit: The date of sale makes sense, too; the retired previous owner's 3-year grace period for selling it would have run out on July 1st.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Eh...? This can only mean that Otsupotsu will step off the dohyo soon, too...

Or will Sanoyama logic ("as long as his kabu is rent away he will do fine") not come into effect here? ;-)

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With 9-6 this basho and winning his last four straight OtsuPotsu should be up in high Juryo next basho and even a chance to get back to Makuuchi the following basho so why should he retire now?

But then again Tamakasuga really wasn't in danger of falling out either so I guess you never know.

The Kyokai's oyakata page hasn't been updated so we can't tell if Tateyama is actually his or renting it. But either case I feel sorry for Ozutsu whom I thought was Kyoho initially. He was one of the good guys sorry to see him cast away at his age.

Edited by Jonosuke

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With 9-6 this basho and winning his last four straight OtsuPotsu should be up in high Juryo next basho and even a chance to get back to Makuuchi the following basho so why should he retire now?

Right. He probably picked the perfect basho to score a small KK from the bottom of the division. My quickly hammered-out banzuke guess has YMY and Otsu going all the way from J12 to J4 with their 9 wins...

And just to acknowledge that Raishu got the whole procession of swaps correct earlier this month. (Sign of approval...) Of course, he did doubt the mighty Potsu so that kinda cancels it out. ;-)

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And just to acknowledge that Raishu got the whole procession of swaps correct earlier this month. :-) Of course, he did doubt the mighty Potsu so that kinda cancels it out. (Blushing...)

Arrgh, shame on me! (Whistling...) How could I dare to write off the over mighty OtsuPutsu... (Band playing...)

While he survived, another famous 1971-born rikishi (who annexed 50% of some forumer's avatar) was kind enough to take Otsu's seat on the hot chair, but I won't speculate about a potential departure since that guy is a candiate for a record between 0-15 and 15-0 IMO. :-)

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Arrgh, shame on me! (Whistling...) How could I dare to write off the over mighty OtsuPutsu... (Band playing...)

I agree with Asashosakari here. To even SUGGEST that Otsukasa might retire before he at least ties Oshio's record of 13 Makunouchi-promotions is almost criminal. Shame on you! :-)

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To even SUGGEST that Otsukasa might retire before he becomes Yokozuna is almost criminal.

fixed (Whistling...)

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While he survived, another famous 1971-born rikishi (who annexed 50% of some forumer's avatar) was kind enough to take Otsu's seat on the hot chair, but I won't speculate about a potential departure since that guy is a candiate for a record between 0-15 and 15-0 IMO. (Whistling...)

Probably the wrong thread for it, but anyway...I'm genuinely worried after that 2-13. It was eerily reminiscent of this, in that both Oikari and Kitazakura were showing competent sumo but just couldn't get a win to save their lives. I probably shouldn't put too much stock into small samples like that, but I get a bit anxious when it looks like a veteran has lost that one final step. By contrast, Otsukasa really didn't look all that good in his Nagoya 4-11, which ironically made me less worried...having a randomly bad basho can always happen, but having a decent basho and still finishing deep in double-digit losses is cause for concern for me.

Ex-Shikishima may want to start looking for an alternative to Onogawa-kabu...

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Probably the wrong thread for it, but anyway...I'm genuinely worried after that 2-13.

It was eerily reminiscent of this, in that both Oikari and Kitazakura were showing competent sumo but just couldn't get a win to save their lives...

...Ex-Shikishima may want to start looking for an alternative to Onogawa-kabu...

Kitazakura's current condition surely deserves its own thread, initially my intention was to connect his result with his kabu-status. After having a look at Tamanaogijima's excellent oyakata website, it became quite obvious that only Onogawa might be an option so I deleted my further lines.

Anyway, Kitazakura's fall seems to be bad timing concerning Ex-Shikishimas career, as the current Onogawa is running out of options right now. (Wakafuji and Furiwake appear to be "untouchable", what moreover lead to ex-Ozutsu's departure).

Edited by Raishu

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Surprise, the Kyokai already updated their oyakata list. (Although the change date on the English side still says September 1, but that's obviously bogus...the Japanese version says Sep 30.) Interestingly new-Inagawa Kinkaiyama is still listed in the borrowers' section. Tamakasuga is among the owners, so that's confirmed at least.

Edit: For kicks, and to confirm Jonosuke's warning a few months ago to take everything at 2channel with a grain of salt... Question: "Why doesn't Miyabiyama own a share yet?" First response: "Because Onaruto-kabu will become available for him once Dejima takes over Mihogaseki-beya." Uh, okay. :-P The ensuing conversation raised an interesting thought nevertheless - with Musashigawa-oyakata only a little over 4 years away from retirement, Miyabiyama may not even need to get a kabu anytime soon...just hang on for another year and a half (or longer if he manages), take the three-year grace period and then step right into the Fujishima share once Musoyama becomes the next Musashigawa.

Edited by Asashosakari

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How can you be so sure Miyabiyama wants to have one?

Wasn't he the inheritor of a big business?

And, he does seem to wanna have fun in his life. (I don't say Sumo is no fun, but life could be easier...)

Muso for Musashigawa, Dejima for Fujishima and please please, someone has to help Buyuzan to stay Oyakata...this man is made for being Sumo teacher. They can't let him go.

Edited by ilovesumo

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How can you be so sure Miyabiyama wants to have one?

Wasn't he the inheritor of a big business?

Miyabi's father, who died several years ago, ran the Ibaraki Transportation Group, composed of companies that operated bus lines, chartered buses, taxis, hotels, waste management, and other businesses. Miya-babe was the only son. I am sure he is not hurting for money and should be able to purchase toshiyori kabu when and if he chooses to do so.

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Interestingly new-Inagawa Kinkaiyama is still listed in the borrowers' section.

+

Miya-babe was the only son. I am sure he is not hurting for money and should be able to purchase toshiyori kabu when and if he chooses to do so.

=

Might Miyabiyama indeed have decided to stay in Ozumo and is the owner of Inagawa-kabu now?

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Might Miyabiyama indeed have decided to stay in Ozumo and is the owner of Inagawa-kabu now?

I like the way your mind works. (Showing respect...) I'm still really confused by the recent moves...if Kinkaiyama is still borrowing either way, why not just move Yotsukasa directly into the Inagawa share instead of doing the Wakafuji->Sekinoto->Inagawa daisy chain with him and Kinkaiyama? At this point I wouldn't be totally shocked to see the Kyushu banzuke come out in two weeks and suddenly Kinkaiyama is an owner on the next site update. That said, Kinki just looks like the classic eternal borrower...undistinguished career, near-invisible presence, etc.

And just to throw in the obvious wildcard: Musashimaru? I suppose he could be the next Inagawa and Kinkaiyama merely bought himself another two months in the Kyokai with the recent moves. (Though Wakafuji looks pretty available again if Otsukasa is really J4 on the next banzuke.) Seems unlikely to me, but who knows.

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