Kintamayama

Latest kabu-babu changes

Recommended Posts

Tanigawa (ex-Hokutouriki, 41) and Magaki (Ex-Tosayutaka, 33) have been added to the judging department today. "Really? I'm surprised. I will do my best to watch each and every  bout closely," said Magaki Oyakata. It's less than three years since his intai. "It hasn't been long since I became an Oyakata so I'm really nervous about this job.. when I was active, I thought being a shinpan was cool.. I'll talk to the Oyakatas of the Ichimon who have the experience and get some tips. I'll have to remember those shikonas and stuff by heart so I don't get mixed up. I want to be able to raise my hand when I see a really close one," he added. It is quite rare that a 33 year old Oyakata gets the nod for the judging department.

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[2018 changes2017 changes2016 changes2015 changes, 2014 changes, 2013 changes, 2012 changes, mid-2011 changes (post-yaocho scandal), 2011 changes, mid-2010 changes (post-gambling scandal), 2010 changes...usually with further posts following the ones linked.]

The news posted by Kinta above means it was time for the usual "mid-term" job reassignments by the Kyokai. As usual it's a relatively short list, unlike the ones that happen following rijikai elections in the even-numbered years.

First off, no changes at all among the executive rank holders this year, i.e. directors, deputy directors and yakuin taigu iin (appointed executives). The three management teams for the regional basho are also unchanged.

Shimpan

As reported, Tanigawa (ex-Hokutoriki, Takasago-ichimon) and Magaki (ex-Tosayutaka, Tokitsukaze-ichimon) have been added to the judging department, replacing Azumazeki (ex-Ushiomaru, Takasago) and Tokitsukaze (ex-Tokitsuumi, Tokitsukaze). Tanigawa also continues to be listed as a member of the jungyo department, a double assignment also held by Sendagawa (ex-Toki). Another bit about that in a moment.

Azumazeki is only assigned to the catch-all Guidance department now, not any specific role. The other departed shimpan has gone to...

Competition Inspection

...where Tokitsukaze has replaced Sadogatake (ex-Kotonowaka), who has moved out to Guidance as well.

Sumo School

Here it's Kumagatani (ex-Tamaasuka) coming in, as the replacement for Inagawa (ex-Futeno), who also is just in Guidance now.

Jungyo

Kiyomigata (ex-Bushuyama) has been added here, replacing Asahiyama (ex-Kotonishiki) - who was another oyakata with the jungyo/shimpan double and will only continue in judging now.

A bit weirdly, unlike every other oyakata who's either in jungyo or judging, Asahiyama is not listed with a dual assignment to Guidance. (That was already the case before these changes, too.)


The more sizable movements have occurred in the oyakata rankings, somewhat in line with what I've surmised over the last few years' worth of updates (2018, 2017, 2016's quoted in the 2018 post).

shunin -> iin

Nishiiwa (ex-Wakanosato), Shiranui (ex-Wakakoyu), Tatsutagawa (ex-Homasho), Tomozuna (ex-Kyokutenho)

As expected based on the recent patterns, all of them have received the second promotion up the oyakata ladder two years after they moved up from toshiyori to shunin.

That has left the shunin rank with no incumbents as nobody was promoted into it a year ago (and so nobody is currently in the "middle" of a shunin stint), and the entire occupancy of the rank now consists of those newly promoted into it, namely:

toshiyori -> shunin

Kumagatani (ex-Tamaasuka), Magaki (ex-Tosayutaka), Nishikijima (ex-Asasekiryu), Onogawa (ex-Kitataiki), Otowayama (ex-Daido)

That's every kabu-owning oyakata who was ranked as toshiyori, bar freshly retired Takekaze (now Oshiogawa). The Onogawa promotion comes as quite a surprise to me, given that he only retired in January last year. Kumagatani and Magaki took up their current shares even later than that, following a couple of years each in kabu on loan. Apparently a year or so is now already considered sufficient seniority to receive this promotion, with some credit even given for borrowing periods. Based on that, ex-Takekaze will presumably be promoted next year already, as well.

The list of kabu borrowers who aren't eligible for promotion currently stands at five, with Kiyomigata (ex-Bushuyama, intai 2013.01), Kimigahama (ex-Hochiyama, 2014.01), Nakamura (ex-Sadanofuji, 2017.05), Kasugayama (ex-Shotenro, 2018.01), and Sanoyama (ex-Satoyama, 2018.11), giving us six toshiyori-ranked oyakata in total for the moment. 


Edit: Looking over the older posts again, I see that Naruto (ex-Kotooshu) had to spend just under three years in the special iin-equivalent rank reserved for former yokozuna and ozeki. If that's the deal there - and it should be if even regular guys can go toshiyori -> shunin in one and shunin -> iin in two years now - we should be seeing ex-Kisenosato at the special rank until the 2022 promotion rounds.

Edited by Asashosakari
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking of Yamashina, how long can a retired kabu-owner hold onto the ownership of a kabu?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the time limit is still three years. Speaking of Yamashina - It just occurred to me that all the current five kabu-on-loan oyakata are in Dewanoumi-ichimon, with three of those shares borrowed from other groups. This looks a bit like a recipe for disaster, what with Yoshikaze and Chiyootori among those kabu owners, who look like their careers could implode for good any day now. Yamashina's share could become sought-after very quickly in Dewanoumi...

Only one scheduled oyakata retirement this year, via ex-Tamanofuji becoming the first to reach the extended age 70 limit.

Edited by Asashosakari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Yamashina's share could become sought-after very quickly in Dewanoumi...

Only one scheduled oyakata retirement this year, via ex-Tamanofuji becoming the first to reach the extended age 70 limit.

Speaking of Deanoumi-ichimon rikishi, I imagine that Goeido might be wanting a share in the next couple of years. 

After ex-Tamanofuji we get four in 2021, all very close to each other. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Tenkaiho retired on the 23rd and takes on the Hidenoyama myoseki. http://this.kiji.is/482101408861520993

I though the minimal number of sekitori basho was 30 (except inheritance cases), but here he has 29. Since he is borrowing, he cannot inherits. Can anyone correct my understanding?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Nantonoyama said:

I though the minimal number of sekitori basho was 30 (except inheritance cases), but here he has 29. Since he is borrowing, he cannot inherits. Can anyone correct my understanding?

Must be the Hochiyama rule

On 20/12/2013 at 12:29, Akinomaki said:

Former makuuchi Hochiyama (31) retired and became Kimigahama-oyakata in Sakaigawa-beya.

At the riji-kai in November the requirement for becoming oyakata was lowered to 28 basho as sekitori, if the former holder of the myoseki and the shisho as guarantors hand in a written application and the riji-kai (was today) approves. (I missed that this new rule was established).

Usually the requirement is 30 basho, Hochiyama has 29.

http://www.jiji.com/jc/c?g=spo_30&k=2013122000938

Edited by Akinomaki
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/02/2019 at 17:17, Asashosakari said:

Only one scheduled oyakata retirement this year, via ex-Tamanofuji becoming the first to reach the extended age 70 limit.

 

A bit earlier in fact - the Kyokai announced that he retired on April 25th, some seven months ahead of reaching that extended retirement age.

Maybe he reached an early deal with someone for his Tateyama myoseki, which is now vacant.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A question on citizenship for kabu: former S Asasekiryu currently borrows the Nishikijima kabu from the owner, Toyonoshima (still active).  Asasekiryu appears not to be a Japanese citizen.  He's not an oyakata, but he is a coach at Takasago Beya.  Does the citizenship requirement start at the level of stable master, but not apply below that level?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

A question on citizenship for kabu: former S Asasekiryu currently borrows the Nishikijima kabu from the owner, Toyonoshima (still active).  Asasekiryu appears not to be a Japanese citizen.  He's not an oyakata, but he is a coach at Takasago Beya.  Does the citizenship requirement start at the level of stable master, but not apply below that level?

Acquired Japanese citizenship in 2017

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

A question on citizenship for kabu: former S Asasekiryu currently borrows the Nishikijima kabu from the owner, Toyonoshima (still active).  Asasekiryu appears not to be a Japanese citizen.  He's not an oyakata, but he is a coach at Takasago Beya.  Does the citizenship requirement start at the level of stable master, but not apply below that level?

Where does your information come from?  Asasekiryu's adoption of the NIshikijima kabu was reported as a transfer of the kabu, not a loan.  It's not unreasonable to expect that Asasekiryu had enough clout/money to acquire his own fairly easily, as he was a sekitori for quite a long time, almost 15 years, even if he only made sanyaku but 5 times.  It was widely presumed that Toyonoshima was going to acquire or had acquired the Magaki kabu from Tokitenku's estate.  The Magaki kabu is now being held by Tosayutaka, who only marginally qualifies to hold it with 32 sekitori basho and none in sanyaku and he had borrowed other kabu before.  It's much more likely that he's still borrowing, whether officially or unofficially since I think it's technically not officially allowed,  despite what's indicated on Sumo Reference (which doesn't list Toyonoshima as owning an kabu, but the likelihood of that is very low).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Acquired Japanese citizenship in 2017

Well, I wondered (and still do).  His name listed on the NSK English site is Badarch Dashnyam, which looks Mongolian.  It was my understanding that new citizens had to come up with a Japanese name (like, say, Karoyan Ando).  That's what threw me off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

It was my understanding that new citizens had to come up with a Japanese name (like, say, Karoyan Ando).

At least from what the wiki page on Japanese citizenship (here) is saying, that's not a requirement. Entirely possible Badarch Dashnyam/ バダルチ・ダシニャム is his Japanese legal name.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, fwuzzle23 said:

At least from what the wiki page on Japanese citizenship (here) is saying, that's not a requirement. Entirely possible Badarch Dashnyam/ バダルチ・ダシニャム is his Japanese legal name.

FYI, Kyokutenho, born NYAMJAV Tsevegnyam in Nalaikh suburb of Ulaanbaator, changed his name to Ota Masaru in 2005 (now head of Tomozuna Beya).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

FYI, Kyokutenho, born NYAMJAV Tsevegnyam in Nalaikh suburb of Ulaanbaator, changed his name to Ota Masaru in 2005 (now head of Tomozuna Beya).

I know, plenty of naturalized citizens do pick a Japanese name, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to be a requirement in order to naturalize:

Quote

Those that naturalize must choose a legal name, like other Japanese, that consists of all or any mix of Japanese hiragana, katakana, and approved kanji. Sometimes applicants were given advice on Japanese names, but choosing a Japanese sounding/appearing name was never a requirement; there are examples through history of naturalized Japanese choosing legal names that did not appear ethnically Japanese. However, in 1983, the Ministry of Justice revised its manuals and application guides and examples to make it clear that using names of non-Japanese origin can be acceptable.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, so someone could choose to intermix katakana and hiragana (and kanji)?  That's kinda wacky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Wow, so someone could choose to intermix katakana and hiragana (and kanji)?  That's kinda wacky.

Of course you know of ドラえもん, and there's even くノ一 ( a woman who is ninja). Shikona in the sumo world also frequently combine.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, fwuzzle23 said:

I know, plenty of naturalized citizens do pick a Japanese name, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to be a requirement in order to naturalize:

Those married to a Japanese when they change nationality (Naruto) or were adopted by the oyakata (Oshima - now Tomozuna) take that name, most others take their shikona (Musashimaru) - Asasekiryu is the only now (first ever?) to have the katakana version of his original real name as real name. http://www.sumo.or.jp/IrohaKyokaiMember/oyakata/

He must have a real name written in Japanese characters, that's the only requirement - but actually romaji capital alphabet letters are also part of the Japanese characters now, like KONISHIKI- I wonder if someone will try to use romaji in the future. Koni-chan has his proper shikona as real name now wiki/小錦八十吉_(6代), he had that of his first wife at first, which the database still lists - and hasn't updated and added the present real name http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=1287

Edited by Akinomaki
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now learning about all of this kabu stuff and I have a few questions.

Is it assumed that most elders stick around until they're forced to retire at 70 (or pass away earlier, I guess)? Which means the only open kabu for 2019 is Tateyama, and there won't be any more available until the four in 2021 (two on the same day!)? 

Do you have to acquire elder stock in the same ichimon you wrestled in?

Not every rikishi wants to be an elder, but for now the rikishi that could be elders but don't have a kabu are:
Hakuho (ichidai-toriyoshi);
Kotoshogiku, Goeido, Takayasu, Takakeisho (all eligible for 3 year JSA membership); 
Toyonoshima, Myogiryu, Kotoyuki, Takarafuji, Shodai, Mitakeumi (all Sekiwake);
Shohozan, Chiyotairyu, Jokoryu, Onosho, Hokutofuji, Abi, Ryuden (all Komusubi);
Sadanoumi, Toyohibiki, (am I forgetting anyone?)

I left off non-Japanese rikishi b/c I haven't heard of anyone besides Hakuho talking about becoming a Japanese citizen. But this seems like a lot of people that need kabu! Do some retired rikishi want elder stock but can't afford it? Or has it generally worked out that rikishi that hope to acquire elder stock end up with one?

Also, what's up with Onishiki and the Yamashina kabu? Are they looking for a buyer?

Thanks for the help!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, mt fuji said:

Just now learning about all of this kabu stuff and I have a few questions.

Is it assumed that most elders stick around until they're forced to retire at 70 (or pass away earlier, I guess)? Which means the only open kabu for 2019 is Tateyama, and there won't be any more available until the four in 2021 (two on the same day!)? 
 

The Mandatory Retirement age is actually 65. 5 years ago they made a new rule allowing re-employment of Oyakata up to age 70, but they had to apply for it. Onishiki reached the retirement age and didn't apply for an extension, so it's available to be transferred to a new rikishi. There is a time limit, I think, for this to be done, but I think it's quite long. 

You're right that the rikishi will have to wait until 2021 before a whole host become available. 

Kotoshogiku does already own a kabu. It's being borrowed by ex-Tenkaiho.

I'm not a kabu expert and I'm happy for @Asashosakari or anyone else to correct me.

Edited by Sakura
Name error
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, mt fuji said:

Just now learning about all of this kabu stuff and I have a few questions.

Is it assumed that most elders stick around until they're forced to retire at 70 (or pass away earlier, I guess)? Which means the only open kabu for 2019 is Tateyama, and there won't be any more available until the four in 2021 (two on the same day!)? 

Do you have to acquire elder stock in the same ichimon you wrestled in?

Not every rikishi wants to be an elder, but for now the rikishi that could be elders but don't have a kabu are:
Hakuho (ichidai-toriyoshi);
Kotoshogiku, Goeido, Takayasu, Takakeisho (all eligible for 3 year JSA membership); 
Toyonoshima, Myogiryu, Kotoyuki, Takarafuji, Shodai, Mitakeumi (all Sekiwake);
Shohozan, Chiyotairyu, Jokoryu, Onosho, Hokutofuji, Abi, Ryuden (all Komusubi);
Sadanoumi, Toyohibiki, (am I forgetting anyone?)

I left off non-Japanese rikishi b/c I haven't heard of anyone besides Hakuho talking about becoming a Japanese citizen. But this seems like a lot of people that need kabu! Do some retired rikishi want elder stock but can't afford it? Or has it generally worked out that rikishi that hope to acquire elder stock end up with one?

Also, what's up with Onishiki and the Yamashina kabu? Are they looking for a buyer?

Thanks for the help!

You're missing several who are on the edge of eligibility by sekitori basho (which I think is 25; if it's 30, you're only missing 2) and probably won't get one, but might be placed well when the floodgates open in 2021.  Some of these might be foreigners I suppose because I didn't check that specifically, but I don't think any are.  I only checked Makushita, so there might be more in Juryo or even Makuuchi that you missed. 

Tokushinho (27 sekitori basho)
Asahisho (34)
Kitaharima (25)
Sagatsukasa (28)
Chiyonoo (33)


Also keep in mind that a lot of the guys you mentioned (Abi, Mitakeumi) aren't particularly close to retiring and could easily have 10 years left.

Edited by Gurowake
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, mt fuji said:

Not every rikishi wants to be an elder, but for now the rikishi that could be elders but don't have a kabu are:
Hakuho (ichidai-toriyoshi);
Kotoshogiku, Goeido, Takayasu, Takakeisho (all eligible for 3 year JSA membership); 
Toyonoshima, Myogiryu, Kotoyuki, Takarafuji, Shodai, Mitakeumi (all Sekiwake);
Shohozan, Chiyotairyu, Jokoryu, Onosho, Hokutofuji, Abi, Ryuden (all Komusubi);
Sadanoumi, Toyohibiki, (am I forgetting anyone?)

The database ("Sumo Reference" link on the forum's main page) has a list of kabu listing current occupants and owners.

Kotoshogiku owns Hidenoyama, currently in use by Tenkaiho. I don't think anyone else on your list has a kabu, but they may have loaners lined up if they want to stay in the Kyokai. There does seem to be a vacant one available if anyone can grab it (Yamashina) but I don't know the politics of that one.

Edited by Kuroyama
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/06/2019 at 22:07, Gurowake said:

Wow, so someone could choose to intermix katakana and hiragana (and kanji)?  That's kinda wacky.

Ethnic Japanese people do this all the time to their unknowing kids these days, I know a lady who is eternally upset about her name カヨ子

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now