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Kintamayama

Juryo promotees for Natsu 2007

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All returnees, two foreigners. First time since Nagoya 2003 that there is no shin-Juryo.

Makushita East 1 Moukonami, 4-3, last time in Juryo- November 2006, Mongolian

Makushita West 1 Chiyohakuhou, 4-3, July 2005

Makushita East 2 Wakanohou, 5-2, January 2007, Russia

Edited by Kintamayama

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No Sakaizawa...wow. That Ms1 rank must be carrying a ton of bonus value with the banzuke makers right now. Can't say I agree, but that hardly matters of course...

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No way should chiyohakuho have made it if sakaizawa didnt make it. No way at all. Not only does it not make sense, but wasnt there another guy last year who was 4-3 from ms1w and didnt make it? So theres even recent prescedent.

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No way should chiyohakuho have made it if sakaizawa didnt make it. No way at all. Not only does it not make sense, but wasnt there another guy last year who was 4-3 from ms1w and didnt make it? So theres even recent prescedent.

Actually, that case went the same way. Ms1w Ryuo 4-3 beat Ms3w Kageyama 5-2 for the last slot in Natsu 2006.

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BUt that was MS3 W. Actually wasnt ryuo the one that was passed over before? I remember someone saying on a borderline promotion that "they couldnt overlook (ryuo?) becuase he had had kachikoshi from ms1w before, and not been promoted" something along those lines...

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Reminds me of natural science. You observe, observe some more, then deduct some rules which comply with your observations, until one day you observe a case which breaks them, requiring your precious rules to be adjusted once again, and again, and again...

What I want to say is: there are no rules about banzuke making we know of. All we can do is make some educated guesses based on precedences, until the next precedence comes along. And unlike natural science, these cases don't have to be all consistent.

Edited by Jakusotsu

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I'm almost positive that an Ms1W w/ 4-3 got passed up from below in the past year, but I can't find it in any of my notes . . . odd.

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I'm almost positive that an Ms1W w/ 4-3 got passed up from below in the past year, but I can't find it in any of my notes . . . odd.

I think I already mentioned that it happened three times in Heisei. The last time was Natsu 1998 as Gokenzan lost out to 6-1 Ms2w Kitazakura (and J5e Misugisato who was 4-11).

Missing juryo on a 5-2 at Ms2w is rarer with 5 out of 53 cases, only 1 of 19 in Heisei. This was one basho later actually as in Nagoya 1998 Tochinoiwa (now Tochisakae) lost the last slot to Ms1e Gokenzan who was 4-3 again.

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In the case of Sakaizawa they were just doing Onoe Oyakata a favour because now he won't need to find a new chanko-chef for 2 more months ... (Blushing...)

(Help me...)

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How many and who are the people who decide they banzuke ratings?

Thanks in advance for any replies

Philafuji

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How many and who are the people who decide they banzuke ratings?

Well, there's Asashosakari, Doitsuyama and... (Blushing...)

Seriously, I don't recall this question being asked (or answered) recently, but AFAIK: the banzuke hensei iinkai, consisting of three Kyokai directors (kanji, as in director) and 20 shimpan. For more information: The Oyakata Gallery, Sumo Forum glossary, and LMdS article.

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Here is a nice picture of the Banzuke Hensei Iinkai in action:

Banzuke.jpg

Edited by Doitsuyama

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Great picture. You never stop learning. Thanks (Blushing...)

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Didn' t we have a nice picture of the Banzuke Hensei Iinkai in action last year?

This one?

Edit: Ah, beaten...

Edited by Exil

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So how many of guys can you identify? Other than Mihogaseki, Futagoyama and Hakkakku who are rather obvious?

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right side, 2nd and 3rd from bottom are Kagamiyama and Takashima.

Asahiyama sits on the left of Futagoyama

Nakamura is on the left side, 6th from bottom. I think Matsugane sits on his left and maybe Oitekaze on his right

Kiriyama is the 3rd from left at the table.

Shikihide is on the right side 6th from the bottom.

Tokitsukaze is the 4th from the left at the table

Could it also be Sakahoko on the left side, 3rd from bottom and Onomatsu on his right?

anyway ....

Edited by aderechelsea

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Minatogawa! Grey hair. (Blushing...) For my prosopagnotic eyes all necks look the same...

But more of those banzuke making rules. Can't we say we are sure of three?

1) Rikishi who achieved a kachikoshi will never be demoted with the exception of sanyaku where, say, a SH with a mild KK often finds himself surpassed by the SN (or even someone from a lower position in banzuke) with a more resounding KK.

2) Rikishi who succumbed to makekoshi will never be promoted with the exception of the bottom of banzuke where a slight makekoshi might propel you upwards in absolute terms if there's big enough vacuum of retirees, but even then you will be relatively demoted compared to those around you.

3) Rikishi sharing the same result will always keep their mutual order in the new banzuke.

Are there ever exceptions to these three? I think not.

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Oh, some... Kokonoe, Nakamura,Kagamiyama,Jinmaku,Kiriyama, Tokitsukaze,Asahiyama, rest is just heads (Blushing...)

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Minatogawa! Grey hair. (Help me...) For my prosopagnotic eyes all necks look the same...

But more of those banzuke making rules. Can't we say we are sure of three?

1) Rikishi who achieved a kachikoshi will never be demoted with the exception of sanyaku where, say, a SH with a mild KK often finds himself surpassed by the SN (or even someone from a lower position in banzuke) with a more resounding KK.

2) Rikishi who succumbed to makekoshi will never be promoted with the exception of the bottom of banzuke where a slight makekoshi might propel you upwards in absolute terms if there's big enough vacuum of retirees, but even then you will be relatively demoted compared to those around you.

3) Rikishi sharing the same result will always keep their mutual order in the new banzuke.

Are there ever exceptions to these three? I think not.

You must define "promotion" and demotion" more exactly. Would you agree that a move from J12e to J11e is always a promotion? Well, that's what happened to Nakao (and Bushuyama as well from J12w to J11w) after a 7-8 in Kyushu 2003.

Of course you could argue that their ordinal rank stayed on No. 63 and No. 64, but then you have to define "promotion". I am waiting eagerly to come up with counter-examples based on your definition. (Blushing...)

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Aaaah, semantics based on an exceptional case! Nitpicking of the highest order!!! (Blushing...) (Help me...)

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Are there ever exceptions to these three? I think not.
Aaaah, semantics based on an exceptional case! Nitpicking of the highest order!!! (Help me...) :-D

Hmm, are you asking for exceptions now or not? (Blushing...)

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With the two foreigners promoted back to juryo we now have 18 foreign-born sekitori - a record.

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