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Peterao

0-2

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I feel a little better about Asashoryu's chances after watching the bout. He got beat badly on the tachiai, but he was still able to scramble around and almost pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Looked to me like Asashoryu forced Miyabiyama down with a tottari...can't believe that wasn't worthy of at least a mono-ii.

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ok, ok I'll take my malediction (after calling Kakuryu and Kotoshogiku idiots) away from Asashoryu. He will have an acceptable basho from now on, only losing to Kotoshogiku but in the end winning the emperors cup with a lousy 12-3. ;-)

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A bit stunned by the second loss, but I do think that it's pretty natural that the win went to Miya. Even after a mono-ii, I'm pretty sure they would've awarded it to him. Yesterday's loss was a huge surprise, especially in terms of the actual sequence of events, but today's falls in the category of "losses which sometimes occur", due to miscalculation or imprecision.

Day 1 results losses help to reduce the enormity of this 0-2 beginning, however. Asa is only a single win behind his most likely competitiors in the long run of the basho, so still entirely within his own capacity to win. I'm expecting a strong comeback.

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It also looks like Asashoryuu was grasping at the mage, even if he didn't get his fingers intertwined in it. He was on the defensive, he was grasping at hairs, and he went down.

Shocking as hell though, that.

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I just watched that in ultra slow motion recorded from the TV at full quality and I think Asa was shafted by that decision, the both tried to throw eachother at the same time, and in fact at the point of balance lose, Asashoryu was slightly behind Miyabis body and hence Miyabi put his hand down first, his body was slighty forward and crashed out earlier so how he won based on that I dont really know, the gumbai should have been pointed at Asashoryu if a no mono -ii was going to be called. Asashoryu had a 'I have been robbed looked' and deservedly so.

Dead body rule? they were both dead bodies if you want to drag old chestnet up.

The sour faced shinpan in the background immediately looked stoically straight ahead without blinking, kind of strange for a adjudicator..conspiracy theorists might think things about that bout.

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No mono-ii is odd, sort of. Maybe some part Asa crossed the plane of the dohyo or something before Miyabi touched down? Maybe it's irrelavent.

I am astonished that the great Asashoryu should have so much of a struggle against Miyabiyama. I know he can lose, but when he does, it's usually because of a tactical error , like his other loss to Tenku. In this case, he was really struggling to keep up physically, getting pushed back, losing traction on the dohyo, etc.

The loss isn't really that important, but the circumstances of it are.

Is he actually human?

I think the lack of solid contact with the dohyo this match is an indicator of something. 2 more losses this basho for him.

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Yesterday's loss was a huge surprise, especially in terms of the actual sequence of events, but today's falls in the category of "losses which sometimes occur", due to miscalculation or imprecision.

You mean he miscounted the money? ;-)

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

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the mage-grasping might have been a factor

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The mage pulling definitely helped. With it, Shoryu pulled Miyabiyama down and into him, which allowed him to do the last ditch twist at the edge.

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I think poor Futenoh will bare the Asa Fury tomorrow.... (Eek...) (Laughing...) Or maybe the Yokozuna will lose again tomorrow?? :-/ NOT!! (Laughing...) (Eh?)

Edited by Bishonohana

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Well, I must admit that was really unexpected. I wonder just how pissed will Asa be now though? I wouldn't want to be Futeno tomorrow..

LMAO... neither would I.

I can't wait to see him start working on damage control.

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I often find it fascinating that when no one else is asking for a mono-ii anywhere, we always find someone in here proposing one...

Anyway nothing has been lost yet. When I look around the current crop, I don't see anyone who is destined to win all 15 bout or even 14.

I think this just makes a basho more interesting and put more people in the arena hopefully.

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Wow, that was about the only way I can imagine Asashoryu losing to Miyabiyama. In another thread someone mentioned the yokozuna's freak losses where he gets flustered by tsuppari and falls into the trap himself. Though he was quoted afterwards saying he had gone for the belt, in reality he only tried twice. First with both hands which Miyabiyama thrust away, and then with the right, but he was forced on the defensive as soon as he touched the belt. After that adrenaline took over and he started trading blows while being inched back to the edge.

Regarding no mono-ii, I think there should have been one but that the call would have been upheld, with a 10% chance of tori-naoshi. They were both "dead in the air" but Asa broke the plane of the dohyo before Miyabiyama touched. That shows that Asashoryu had been pushed further off of the dohyo and a hair earlier as well.

Bravo Miyabiyama!

[and I'm sorry everyone for picking Asashoryu in S4. It was all my fault.]

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Kotooshu might have blown his chance again by loosing on day one to a lesser foe. A two match lead on asa would have been nice. Im not sure who is giong to take this basho. It very well could still be Asashoryu inasmuch as the other guys who are capable, IMO, Osh, and hakuho, both already have 1 loss as well...so even if they win all their remaining bouts, asa can beat one or both, and still force a playoff. I still think this is asas tournament to lose.

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I claim that Shoryu losing two in a row does not decrease Futeno's chances one bit. More likely on the opposite if Shoryu's sumo is not fully sharp. It is statistical phenomenon that Shoryu doesn't lose two in a row, it has nothing to do with fury or determination. In combat sports getting angry is usually always a handicap against a seasoned pro. Also Futeno is never an easy foe for him in keiko nor in honbasho. I never understand these comments that Shoryu losing on day X makes his chances of losing on day X+1 any less than if he wins on day X. Just statistics. If you look at sanyaku and upper maegashira, there are no weaklings really with whom one could take it easier.

It is just business as usual tomorrow with Futeno. Goes there to do his own sumo against Shoryu, just like in keiko or in previous honbasho bouts.

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And now, the official excuse for a possible kyujo is being prepared. Houchi says Asa injured his right elbow at degeiko on the 8th, the same elbow that caused his kyujo last year. They are saying a loss tomorrow, and it's a definite kyujo.

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Kotooshu might have blown his chance again by loosing on day one to a lesser foe. A two match lead on asa would have been nice. Im not sure who is giong to take this basho. It very well could still be Asashoryu inasmuch as the other guys who are capable, IMO, Osh, and hakuho, both already have 1 loss as well...so even if they win all their remaining bouts, asa can beat one or both, and still force a playoff. I still think this is asas tournament to lose.

Kotooshuu has been 2 up on the Yokozuna before as well, with no luck when it came down to the wire. Personally I'm predicting a Wakanosato Yusho (a man can dream). What a wonderful story that would be, Wakanosato winning the yusho in his first time back in Makuuchi in 3 basho, knocking off someone in a playoff or something?

(In other News, Kaiho will be returning to the mid-Maegashira ranks as soon as July, because that would also be splendid, and as I'm already pretending that wishes are fishes, I may as well tack this on)

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And now, the official excuse for a possible kyujo is being prepared. Houchi says Asa injured his right elbow at degeiko on the 8th, the same elbow that caused his kyujo last year. They are saying a loss tomorrow, and it's a definite kyujo.

That's absolutely incredible. Did anybody notice Asa favouring his right elbow in either bout? Did Asa say anything about being injured? Has anyone heard anything about this until now? Asashoryu will plummet in my estimations if he has to pretend to be injured to excuse his losses- this is more shocking to me than the yaocho allegations (which I simply cannot believe). (Laughing...)

I am now praying for Tochiazuma to keep his lead, stun everyone and win his fourth yusho. Especially since the consensus seemed to be that he was more likely than not to go intai. Go Tochiazuma!

Copying SalParadise's format, I'll also go ahead and hope that Oga will kachi-kochi to stay in Juryo. In fact, Oga, for the Juryo yusho!

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Kotooshuu has been 2 up on the Yokozuna before as well, with no luck when it came down to the wire. Personally I'm predicting a Wakanosato Yusho (a man can dream). What a wonderful story that would be, Wakanosato winning the yusho in his first time back in Makuuchi in 3 basho, knocking off someone in a playoff or something?

Well, I guess a Maegashira will have to win a playoff bout sometime...

And now, the official excuse for a possible kyujo is being prepared. Houchi says Asa injured his right elbow at degeiko on the 8th, the same elbow that caused his kyujo last year. They are saying a loss tomorrow, and it's a definite kyujo.

That's absolutely incredible. Did anybody notice Asa favouring his right elbow in either bout? Did Asa say anything about being injured? Has anyone heard anything about this until now? Asashoryu will plummet in my estimations if he has to pretend to be injured to excuse his losses- this is more shocking to me than the yaocho allegations (which I simply cannot believe). (Laughing...)

I'm usually not inclined to give Asashoryu the benefit of the doubt, but this is completely normal for a Yokozuna who doesn't do well. It's not about excusing the losses that have already happened, it's about giving him a face-saving public excuse to leave the basho and not pile up any more of them, as Moti insinuated.

Anyway, I guess that's it for Asashoryu going for degeiko (or any traditional keiko) before tournaments. His new-found vigour hasn't seemed to work out so well this basho.

Edited by Asashosakari

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this is completely normal for a Yokozuna who doesn't do well

I did not know that- this shows that I haven't been following sumo long enough to see a Yokozuna not do well! Apart from when Asashoryu really did seem to be injured after Hakuho's kotenage, that is.

Even if this is normal practice, it doesn't strike me as being very "sumodoh". The occasional horror performance does not make him any less of a great champion- if anything it is a tribute to his greatness that 2 losses in a row, from him, are a horror performance.

Edited by rhino

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Even if this is normal practice, it doesn't strike me as being very "sumodoh". The occasional horror performance does not make him any less of a great champion- if anything it is a tribute to his greatness that 2 losses in a row, from him, are a horror performance.

Well, what's the alternative? Yokozuna aren't supposed to struggle to a 9-6 record or even go make-koshi, so when things get bad it's time to withdraw from the basho, even if there's no obvious reason that can be pinpointed for the lack of performance. But the truth doesn't make for terribly good public relations here, so we get a more or less believable-sounding injury in order to save face. (And it might still be a legit injury, just blown out of proportion.)

I don't think sumo-do can (or even should) be applied here...this is a move to protect sumo as a business, not sumo as a concept. And make no mistake, even if Asashoryu himself might want to continue, the Kyokai bigwigs would lean on him to withdraw anyway. The news report by Kinta is probably right on the money...if he loses on Day 3, he's out.

Edited by Asashosakari

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I don't think sumo-do can (or even should) be applied here...this is a move to protect sumo as a business, not sumo as a concept. And make no mistake, even if Asashoryu himself might want to continue, the Kyokai bigwigs would lean on him to withdraw anyway. The news report by Kinta is probably right on the money...if he loses on Day 3, he's out.

I initially assumed that Asashoryu himself was planning to blame injury to protect his own image, which is what I found so unimpressive. But obviously, as you've pointed out, there's no reason to assume that this is his idea. From a business point of view I don't know which is worse- an underperforming yokozuna or a non-participating one (although I imagine that both can actually be quite good for business, since they can generate excitement).

But anyway on the main point, I understand what you mean- this isn't about sumo-do and the individual rikishi, this is about the image of the sport. I guess that what Asashoryu personally wants to do is irrelevant. I stand corrected! (In jonokuchi...)

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I am now praying for Tochiazuma to keep his lead, stun everyone and win his fourth yusho. Especially since the consensus seemed to be that he was more likely than not to go intai. Go Tochiazuma!

Oh yes, that's the spirit! (In jonokuchi...) A yusho playoff between Tochiazuma and Wakanosato and I won't care who wins!

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