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yamaneko

WTH? Thanks to someone here, I have to leave my amasumo club

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I'd feel remiss if I did not respond to this thread. I was actually alerted to it by a friend "down under", who in turn, was told about it by an SF amasumo member.

As most everyone on the Honbasho forum knows, I am no longer associated with SFM. This is due to my amiable settlement with the good people at Le Monde du Sumo and my offer to provide LMdS with photos for use on its website, with credit to me...What I am getting at is that I had been asked to "step down" as editor of SFM because of my handling of this affair, which I refused to do...

Hi Barbara,

I heard a different version of the same story you related to us all here. It's very difficult to know what and whom to believe in the whole unfortunate incident. While I sympathize with all parties involved, it takes (at least) two to tango. I very much doubt the blame can be laid soley with any one party. I do hope that some day all will be able to forgive and forget.

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a hungry Greek amasumo

(Showing respect...) oh ... please elaborate ....

is that an Australian-based Greek amasumo ?

btw .... the founder of the Hellenic Sumo Federation has recently moved to Australia to live there permanently (??) and left us hanging here. (In a state of confusion...)

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Hi Barbara,

I heard a different version of the same story you related to us all here. It's very difficult to know what and whom to believe in the whole unfortunate incident. While I sympathize with all parties involved, it takes (at least) two to tango. I very much doubt the blame can be laid soley with any one party. I do hope that some day all will be able to forgive and forget.

It's good that you put all this into perspective. We should not forget that in the cases of yamaneko and Barbara we've only heard one part of the story. However, I think both Barbara and yamaneko have the right to speak out on this matter and show their view, particularly given the fact that they are pretty annoyed by recent developments. You can hardly blame them for telling a one-sided view if Mark Buckton so obviously refuses to tell those stories from his angle.

Maybe there is too much dirty laundry better not be exposed in public, but then again a well-behaved discussion about how to deal with a) copyrighted material, or b) the right of devoted fans to do work for free that others are paid for/living from could be very illuminating to the community.

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To the poster who has now removed both her posts:

It honestly pains me to post the following as I do still hold great respect for all you did for Sumo Fan Magazine.

Unfortunately though you have started to equate the need to avenge your embarrassment at being asked to step aside from the editor's post with a need to discredit SFM - all the effort and hard work the many contributors (written, translation and proofreading as well as technical support) to SFM offer each issue - the efforts so many enjoy, the efforts you helped build.

To attack me personally, for I alone made the decision that you were out of your depth, is fine, but to include the men and women that make SFM what it is - via your misdirected attacks on SFM - is silly, is rude and is disrespectful to all those folk who lost sleep and spent so long responding to your own calls for articles etc.

Ignoring the fact that you have taken this thread off-topic, I have no intention of going into each and every avenue of the background nitty gritty that led to my placing one hand on your shoulder and one on the door handle as I told you I never would make these specific facts and individual names known. This assurance stands.

That said, given your bitter and sometimes untrue comments above, I will just say that while I am far from perfect, while I have made mistakes in the past and will make mistakes in the future, I sincerely believe I operated in the manner any similarly focussed magazine leader would - by expecting more of my editor than the average person on the street - by holding her to a higher standard.

Based on repeated demonstrations of buckling under pressure, several times thereafter threatening to or actually quitting as deadlines approached - and even using the 'him or me' (goes) mentality once with an SF member nonetheless was eventually too much to put up with.

The straw that proved too heavy and broke my back though was your suggestion-turned-expectation that our contributors behave in one manner by not contributing elsewhere and I, to my eternal regret going along with you, to later, accidentally discover my editor to very soon afterwards be seen doing the exact same thing.

This act left me speechless as did the following from your post:

an individual who cares not so much about getting information out to the sumo fans, in general, as much as perpetuating the idea that his vehicle is the only legitimate one through which fans MUST get their information

Trust, belief and so much effort to help you - all out of the window.

Finally, yamaneko, if I were to sit here and defend myself I would be doing something wrong as regards my conscience as there is nothing I have to defend.

Your (initial and subsequent) comments above may not have named me but your target was clear. You may not have named several folk but your subject(s) besides myself are also clear.

The bandwagon soon filled up and it was interesting to see who bit your lure.

You offered incorrect comments, assumptions and guesses. In places you simply lied. I will not credit you with any further response on Sumo Forum.

I am sure we will speak face to face one day and can talk then.

Mark Buckton

Editor-in-Chief

Sumo Fan Magazine

Edited by Mark Buckton

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I'm sorry, but not good enough an explanation for me, not by any measure. First, too lofty, and very vague. At first glance I'd call this an exercise in Sophism. Of course with the Barbara side of the story I can understand there are many details and much history so only she and other insiders will understand your allusions. However, unless she completely fabricated the LMdS connection, her comments were not off-topic, btw.

Regarding Yamaneko's case, don't whitewash us all with "we bit his lure." Some of us those who responded have simply been sympathetic. Others feel that past suspicions are being confirmed. A few have defended you in the name of 'what the hell do we really know about all of this?" I for one said that I was waiting for an open response from you, but applied a very specific pressure. Your couched response only deepens my doubts. And who knows what are the views of those who have read this but chose not to respond?

Why can't you answer this confrontation directly? Is it true that you made contact with Bradley's former club president and discussed with him Bradley's activities? Was this alleged conversation more far-reaching than the "news blogs"? Or maybe the alleged 'NHK connection' portion is of minor significance to said conversation. Or, is the questionable act unkown to us here and a private matter? If so, you don't have to say any more if you wish to keep that part private. The final questions would be: Did you contact Bradley directly about any of this, before during or after? If not, why not?

The growing allegation is that you are willfully engaging in a misguided crusade against 'media piracy' in the sumo world, which is assumed to be of a selfish nature in reality, whether or not you are conscious of it. If this is true, it's megalomania on the proportions of The Spanish Inquisition (metaphorically), only with far fewer casualties or physical trauma, and far less actual power over the people you target, but more potential to damage our community than you've considered or been able to admit. And that's my piece on that.

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The bandwagon soon filled up and it was interesting to see who bit your lure.

I'm interested to know exactly what this is supposed to mean Mark.

Do you mean by some chance that your surprised in any way that the people here took yamanekos side when he was thrown out of his club because of the unecessary interference of another so called sumo fan?

Thats (Censored) Mark,theres no excuse good enough.

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Damn, Marks misdirection abilitys are amazing. Maybe he should be a lawyer instead of a magazine editor. I am pretty amazed that he believes his answers will vindicate him. He points to 5 year old misquotes and expects us to beleive that, with his name constantly comming up in regards to other peoples Sumo blogs, boards, and projects getting busted, slammed and otherwise shut down, he has nothing to do with it. I love Sumo but leave the politics o the YDC and NSK. Sorry Mark, this fish has been on the planet longer than you, lived in Japan almost as long as you and been though enough shit to know that the lure I bit has more than a LITTLE bit of truth to it. if someone is constantly named as an instigator it is because they ARE. SFM now removed from my bookmark list, with apologies to all of the other writers who work hard on it (even the unnamed one I know, wouldn't want to get ya fired, oh wait, you don't get paid for your articles anyway...)

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Funny. A really long post by The Person, but not one of Kaiguma's questions gets answered.

Edit: Now, it seems The Person's second post is gone.

Edited by Shibouyama

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Barbara,

<SNIP> <Not neccessary to repeat the post>

I very much respect the fact that the other side has come forward to record his view, even though I do not agree with everything written. That is what a forum is about - expressing all sides of a story.

Let me just say that I have the utmost gratitude to and the highest regard for the work of all SFM contributors, past and present, and their efforts are certainly not being undercut. They are a great group and I had so much pleasure working with them, irrespective of the frustrations I personally may have felt, at times.

That said, I still feel that Yamaneko received a raw deal, having been forced to step down from an activity that he truly loves (sounds familiar to me (Whistling...) ).

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Funny. A really long post by The Person, but not one of Kaiguma's questions gets answered.

Edit: Now, it seems The Person's second post is gone.

Hey Shib, thanks for the summary, because I blinked and it's gone. (Whistling...)

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Finally, yamaneko, if I were to sit here and defend myself I would be doing something wrong as regards my conscience as there is nothing I have to defend.
How can there be nothing to defend? WHY is there nothing to defend? If there is nothing to defend, then it would be quite easy to explain what I did that caused you to (justifiably?) do what you did? How about the fact that you think im such a threat, because ive done something so serious, yet it must not be serious enough to tell me about.
Your (initial and subsequent) comments above may not have named me but your target was clear. You may not have named several folk but your subject(s) besides myself are also clear.

This is classic. My initial comment made you my target? What in particular? Honestly, i wasnt sure if it was you, i get your name confused with someone else on here that has a similar name, just like i get kintamayama and doitsuyama confused all the time. If you think my initial post made it clear that i named you, does that mean, that even you think that if anyone is accused of going behind someone's back, it must be you? What in my later posts tied it to you? Are we perhaps feeling guilty? And no i did not name "several folk" but i did that only to humor you, and not give you more ammunition, because if im not mistaken you are the person who feels real names should be kept out of message boards, (although in the past, when you had interviews you needed to do, you made a big deal about people NEEDING to include their full names and locations or the like, or else their comment wouldnt be considered for the article. Funy thing is, i was the only one to reply there in that thread, yet i also was the only one NOT to get my name in your article/interview. ROFL. But i digress...are you actually now accusing me of something by NOT including people's names? With you its danged if i do, danged if i dont? I have no problem with reediting my posts above t include names of any and everyone i mentioned. I thought i was actually appeasing your conspiricy paranoia by not doing it, yet still i get flack.

The bandwagon soon filled up and it was interesting to see who bit your lure.
Lure? I admitedly was venting. I had no idea others had been victimized in similar situations. How would i have? I dont recall seeing any of what came out of the woodwork here on the message boards. If i 100% knew it was you, and if i wanted to "lure" believe me, i could have found a better way. LIke start a thread, "How many people here have been stabbed in the back uncessarily by mark buckton?" I did nothing of the kind.
You offered incorrect comments, assumptions and guesses. In places you simply lied. I will not credit you with any further response on Sumo Forum.

Inncorrect comments? How so? Assumptions and guesses? I myself said that i could only GUESS and ASSUME what the charges were and who the charger was, since you didnt have the cajones to tell me yourself. I was told by mr. president the gist of what you said...That it was NHK who was most likely to take offense to whatever i had done, and it had something to do with videos i had posted, or something i had posted here on this message board. SInce ive only done one sumo video in my life about pro sumo, well its not very hard to narrow it down. Since i only post on this message board, about sumo, then whatever offense must have taken place on here. How are these incorrect assumptions and guesses? And I lied? Dem be fighting words! Seriously man, after all youve done, now you stoop down to accusing me of lying, yet not even dignifying that with where in the world i have lied?

I am sure we will speak face to face one day and can talk then.

Why in the world would i want to talk to you face to face? Someone who gets me kicked out of my club for still no one knows why. Someone who accuses me of lying, with no back up. Be a man, or at least be a decent human being, and explain yourself, otherwise theres no sense to talk to you face to face.

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I have nothing useful to contribute to this thread, but, for what it's worth, here's the opinion of someone who has never met any of the parties involved and is judging solely on what I've read on this forum, in the past days and in the past months.

From what I've seen, so far, Mark Buckton really DOES seem to be trying to spread some form of monopoly over sumo information, hiding behind some form of "concern" for intellectual property rights. Considering that he is the editor of SFM, I imagine getting rid of the "opposition" is probably worthwile.

The background issues do not come out clearly from any of these threads, and it unfortunately seems that the most cryptic of all is Buckton himself - which may come from some honorable desire to keep some things private.

That said, with the information we're getting here, there doesn't seem to be much to justify his tactics, and unless any sort of rational explanation comes out, it's difficult to expect that most forum members will look upon him with much sympathy. I don't think that's a very good bet for the popularity of his SFM.

I'd suggest stepping out from the shadows and illuminating us a little, because your image certainly isn't improving through the obscure lines you write.

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OK, what has been puzzling me about this the whole time, regardless of who is involved and why, is...

If NHK stuff is being used outside of copyright then isn't it a matter for NHK to follow up? I don't see how approaching the president of an amateur sumo club and telling him that yamaneko is (potentially) in trouble because of this does anything. If you wanted NHK to act, wouldn't the logical thing be to point it out to NHK and have them act? Then, if anyone acts on NHK's behalf it would be a lawyer. This would have more weight than an ordinary member of the public approaching an individual and saying you should remove the material.

I'm puzzled

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Good points S, those are logical points. However, even before we get to that, wouldnt you say, its best to first ask what in the world I have ever done that would attract the attention of NHK? :)

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Good points S, those are logical points. However, even before we get to that, wouldnt you say, its best to first ask what in the world I have ever done that would attract the attention of NHK? :)

Ok, so let me get this straight. You used a couple of pictures that were taken by a couple of forumers, and you ripped a video file of some sumo action from the news? Or you took a video from Sumofanmag.com? And then you turned it into a little "Sumo News by Yamaneko" on youtube?

OK wait. I remember you asked about the pictures. Where did the video come from? Is there even a video clip of some sumo match or something?

So you "swiped" some video off the feed, or off the TVJ broadcast, or what? Banzuke.com? NHK?

I'm just curious. Because I think you are pretty safe about the pictures. Even without a written contract, you do have some sort of consent. But what about the videos?

The reason I ask, is that if they are clips off the TV, or clips of the Feed, what's the big deal? I mean, Dale has been "stealing" videos for years, without drawing the attention of anyone, including Mark. And now that I think of it, Ngozi made an awful lot of videos of the January matches. He seems to be associated in some way with Sumofanmag.com, or was. Why do we not report Dale or Ngozi to the authorities?

Is it really even about the video's? I'm confused, really. I think everyone should just take a timeout.

The story is getting rather convoluted and unclear.

I also think your club president is completely spineless. Is such a cool thing for your club to be really a bunch of self interested babies, out to stab each other in the back, or turn tail and hide?

Some friends you have. Really. I wouldn't be so keen to associate myself with such "fair-weather friends". Their loyalty to you crumbles at the first gust of wind, and you defend them? Something smells more rotten than Smeagol :-D Buckton here. Hell, I hated Mark's guts a few years ago, (remember the great smoking debacle?) but to be honest, he is at least constant. And he does contribute a lot to the sumo world. Perhaps he has some "authoritarian" issues, but he's all we got in the way of Sumo Magazines, and he deserves a certain amount of respect for it. (I'm sure that will go straight to his abnormally large head) :-P

Anyway, I don't care to take sides. I would again just like to modestly suggest to Mark not to get into it, and take care with your PR. Bad PR comes back, even if you don't believe it will. And don't call people liars. Especially not core members of your readership, dumbass. As always, I admire the project, and hope it is working out well, but don't get all serious and turfish about it, that takes the real joy out of it. If you really did call this guys sumo club and get him booted, you suck, and you need to grow up. That is just plain childish, petty and mean. Besides, shouldn't you concentrate on making the best product you can, instead of acting like the Sumo Association's unofficial guard dog. Underhanded shit, and flagrant attacks on invented enemies doesn't make up for a second rate product. Typical running office ladies, if you ask me. Make it look like your doing something, instead of actually doing it. You have a tiny readership, and all previous attempts at a sumo magazine have failed. It is a knife edge. Perhaps the international audience is growing, in part due to your efforts, but you aren't making any friends like this, and you certainly don't seem to be wooing any potential subscribers. Hell, a lot of your potential readers already work for you, or did work for you and now don't, and they don't seem to be likely to be signing up to send you money for an issue in the box each month.

Yamaneko, perhaps a pm to mark, and a good long talk with your club members is in order. Mark, talk to the guy like a man, and don't act like such a little passive aggressive bitch about it.

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[mod hat on]

This is a serious, important, interesting issue. But, emotions are running high. I would like to ask all sides to refrain from name-calling, profanity, etc., etc. No rabbit punches, no shots below the belt. No cliching...wait, I'm getting my sports confused. By all means continue, but do so in as polite a manner as you can muster. That is all.

[/hat off]

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[mod hat on]

This is a serious, important, interesting issue. But, emotions are running high. I would like to ask all sides to refrain from name-calling, profanity, etc., etc. No rabbit punches, no shots below the belt. No cliching...wait, I'm getting my sports confused. By all means continue, but do so in as polite a manner as you can muster. That is all.

[/hat off]

I'm only calling Mark names out of my genuine affection for him.

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OK wait. I remember you asked about the pictures. Where did the video come from? Is there even a video clip of some sumo match or something?
Check my website: www.usasumo.net I have my videos up there. The video is 90% of my face talking about the last basho..with some picture overlay at times of pictures taken by nishi and fay. I have no video feed. I would like in the future to incorporate some banzuke.com videos or other home videos into my newscast, if i get permission. Like you say, banzuke.com directly posts videos from the nhk broadcast, and has for years. I cant see how nhk would take offense of me taking a 30 second clip and inserting it into a NEWS BROADCAST that will inspire people to get NHK affiliate TV Japan here in the us.
Some friends you have. Really. I wouldn't be so keen to associate myself with such "fair-weather friends". Their loyalty to you crumbles at the first gust of wind, and you defend them? Something smells more rotten than Smeagol

Like i said, i too am shocked that he would do this sight unseen, but believe, me, you dont know the half of what flack he has gotten from things seemingly 100X as trivial as this. (Im sure with the person telling him about NHK and lawsuits, or whatever, he made it sound a lot more serious than things such as the attire of judges at his events, which he has been nearly not allowed to do events over...) And like i said, although i understand his situation, i wouldnt have done the same thing, and no, things are different now, as i admitedly have lost a little respect for him, even though i can see where he is coming from. But i dont want to cause a big thing...he is the owner of the best and only portable dohyo of its kind, he is the one who got me on MTV true life, the one who got me on as a consultant on the movie Oceans 13, the one who everyone contacts in the entertainment world if they want anything sumo. Im not going to yell at him for being paranoid...i might not be happy about it, but the situation could be much worse.

Yamaneko, perhaps a pm to mark, and a good long talk with your club members is in order. Mark, talk to the guy like a man, and don't act like such a little passive aggressive bitch about it.

My PM and email accounts are wide open for him to do what ive asked here plenty of times, (if he doesnt want to say it here), which is what specifically i did or posted that warranted a scare tactic call to my club president. I dont think its asking for much. BUt i really dont think he will do it, because its obviuos he doesnt have my best interests really at heart. If he did, he would have come to me first and said something about my video(s), instead of secretly going behind my back.

For those saying he is doing this because my website is competition, i really dont see how that is possible. My videos in 2 weeks have only gotten like 50 hits...and in my videos i even for free, give a "Shout out" to websites, praising them for their information such as sumofanmag.com He must have other motives, that is not my well -being, and that has nothing to do with competition to sumofanmag.com. What those motives are he must not feel worthy enough to air out in the open, otherwise i think it would have been done by now.

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By the way, i dont think anyone on this board (ryukaze perhaps?) knows the kind of crap our club president goes through in the background of USA ama sumo. I hate to sound like im trying to excuse the person who many here think is half to blame for screwing me out of the club....but if you knew the kind of stuff that has been pulled on him...youd understand at least how someone from Japan calling about NHK suing him, could have scared him so much...

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Just wanna throw my two yen in for whatever it's worth.

I know Mark, and I make some minor contributions to SFM, so I certainly have some bias. But, I don't understand why people automatically assume he's to blame in this situation. Yes, he was accused of behaving badly in another topic. I heard his side of the story in full, and have read the accuser's side of the story here, as well as reading the thoughts of a third person involved here. It's my opinion that Mark got a bad rap.

Now we have a new instance of someone supposedly attacking yamaneko-san's podcast. Supposing the allegations are basically true, then what do we know? Was the purported caller a man or a woman? Roughly how old did the person sound (you can gauge general age from voices, assuming a clear connection)? Was it for certain an overseas call? If so, from which country? Or was it from somewhere like Hawaii? Did the caller reveal just what their connection was with NHK or the NSK? Could the caller's nationality be established on the basis of dialect/accent (i.e. Australians and Canadians sound quite different, even though speaking English)? There are many more questions I'm sure we could come up with.

If it was Mark (on this subject I have no information), I'm as curious as the rest of you as to what he was thinking. But have we considered any other possibilities? Someone jokingly wrote earlier "Thanks Clyde." or something to that effect, suggesting perhaps a connection to the former Sumo World magazine. I dunno. What about present or past NHK staff/commentators? I dunno. Other foreign residents with close connections to the sumo world and the NSK. They are out there. Some have been around for a very long time. I dunno. But, while some relative newcomers may get territorial, in my experience it's nothing compared to the extreme possessiveness of the lifetime residents. I do know that Mark has been attacked openly and secretly in any number of distasteful ways.

Reading the Sumo Mailing List for years has shown me nothing if not how bitter some of this infighting can get. And, like the current yaocho scandal, it's nothing new. It's been going on since long before Mark or me arrived, and will likely continue long after we've left the scene. I hope I'm wrong, and that it ends sooner rather than later.

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If it wasnt mark, im sure he would just say, "it wasnt me" but he has not denied it. I myself had no idea how many have been affected by his actions until i made this thread and started getting emails, pm's and the like....are all of the stories true, and mark is 100% evil in all of them? im sure not, but im also sure that a good number of them, people who dont even know each other relating very similar experiences, some things have to be true.

I myself am only asking what i think i have the right to. if he never made a call to my club president, then say he never has. If he did make the call, then step up and let everyone know, or at least me know, what exactly i did wrong to warrant what he did? And now since he did open his mouth and call me a liar, have the tripas (spanish) to answer me on what he is accusing me of lying about. I dont think thats asking too much. if youre not going to do these things, then why make the phone call in the first place? Why call me a liar in the first place? For all those NBA fans, its kind of like Carmello Anthony sucker punching Mardy Collins of the knicks a few weeks back, and then running away as fast as he could. If youre so mad at someone, it warrants you sucker punching them, stay, and see it to the completion, dont run away. And if i ask why i was sucker punched, let me know, dont run away.

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Maybe we all think, this is Mr. B. because we know or some even made experiences with his special hobby - to send "friendly" warnings and threaten people to remove their stuff?????

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Yamaneko and Fay,

As I said, I don't have any personal knowledge of what happened in this particular case. Only what I read here. So it is indeed possible I could be wrong. I really don't know. I do understand many people have related bad experiences to you. I do sympathize with that. I'm only asking people to consider all possibilities until we know otherwise. I am all for open discussion. I do encourage everyone to share what they know so we may get to the bottom of this. I'd like to be as impartial as possible. My only request is civil, polite discussion. I'd really rather not descend into profanity and mud-slinging. If we can stick to factual evidence as far as possible, and remain polite to one another, and maybe learn more about what happened in the process, I will be satisfied.

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One problem is though, because someone refuses to say anything on the matter...the whole thing right now is NOT based on factual evidence. You yourself can see that the one accused has not said what prompted him to go behind my back like that. Nor has he said why he "descended into mud-slinging" and called me right out to be a liar. Id LOVE to stick to factual evidence. Thats why ive asked for what specifically i have posted or broadcast that warranted a call to USA to warn them. Id also asked for what specifically in this thread constitutes me as a liar. If those things happen, then you can call me satisfied too. :)

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The bandwagon soon filled up and it was interesting to see who bit your lure.

I'm interested to know exactly what this is supposed to mean Mark.

Do you mean by some chance that your surprised in any way that the people here took yamanekos side when he was thrown out of his club because of the unecessary interference of another so called sumo fan?

Thats (Censored) Mark,theres no excuse good enough.

Just a little update for people who may not know, this same little trouble maker made it his holy mission to contact the IFS personally and give them video information and names showing all officials and wrestlers who competed in the WSL last year, subsequently leading to suspensions for the so called guilty people,also using a so called internet magazine to slag off people in one sided attacks on more than one occaision and also using hearsay to invent and create his so called exclusives. Is this professional journalism???? No of course not but what can you expect from an amateur. The surprising thing is ...........he is all so big and tough behind the safety of his PC, but sadly does not even have the manhood to confront people face to face in reality .I think its a case of though who can do it and those who cant write about it

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