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Jonosuke

YDC: Asashoryu and Yaocho

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In their regular post-basho meeting, Yokozuna Deliberation Committee members discussed a so-called expose published by a weekly magazine "Shukan Gendai" on Asashoryu's "Yaocho".

According to the article in ther January 22 issue, Asashoryu asked and arranged to have certain Makuuchi rikishis about throwing their bout so he could get all-win yusho at the Kyushu basho last year.

"This story is totally lacking in truth and the Kyokai should take a proper stand," commented Yoshio Ishibashi, chairman of the committee. "Takasago oyakata has asked Asashoryu about this and he told us the yokozuna categorically denied the allegation," Makiko Uchidate added.

"I have not read the piece, so I can't comment," Kitanoumi oyakata, chairman of the Kyokai told reporters.

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hmmm is that so? I would like to know which bouts were supposedly fixed so I could scrutinize them myself purely out of curiousity.

Shukan Gendai? a spurious nudie pic sporting tabloid with a shady past of libel trouble.

http://www.3justice.com/asaki/add_gakkai_wins.shtml

(Holiday feeling...)

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In the article, these Rishi are GACHINKO (no yaochou)

Futenou, Houmashou, Kakizoe, Kisenosato, Takamisakari, Dejima,

Tamanosima, Tamakasuga, Iwakiyama, Aminishiki, Tochinonada, Takekaze

I have no ideas it's true or not, but Hatsu-basho Day15(sensyuuraku)

Homashou, Kisenosato, Takamisakari, Iwakiyama, were 7-7 and lost and MK.

(Holiday feeling...) (Holiday feeling...) (I am not worthy...) (I am not worthy...) (I am not worthy...)

but Futenou won and KK.

so.................... (I am not worthy...)

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Also there is only one non-college rikishi in the list above.

But regardless of who does or does not commit a Yaocho, how can anyone tell? What hard evidence do they have to suggest a rikishi did a yaocho on a particular day? Did they witness a certain transaction to take place?

Not in the list above is Kokkai whoe was 3-12 at the last Kyushu. So are they telling me that three he managed to win were Yaocho or 12 he lost are Yaocho?

I think an appearance of such an article as this in the Weekly Shukan Gendai (notoriously sensational rag) is an indication that anti-Asashoryu faction may be beginning to rear its ugly head.

Even withn the Kyokai, quite a few heya owining oyakatas are commenting darkly about Asashoryu especially his lack of training and such things as returning to Mongolia after every basho displaying his lack of commitment in fulfilling yokozuna responsibiltiy.

In fact his lack of training has become such a standard joke among Kyokai officials and media types that when he shows up for training, it will start making news (he has apparently done two serious training sessions prior to the Hatsu basho). Some oyakatas complain about the perception that one can become a yokozuna and keep winning yushos without any rigorous training which is causing a morale problem in their own heya.

Asashoryu is especially pointed out among senior ranked rikishis for not dedicating his own time to coach and lead younger generation of rikishis and often is criticised for manhandling and bullying other rikishis for his own pleasure to make them fear him.

Perhaps all that and more are reflected in Kitanoumi oyakata's commment the other day of Asashoryu is still far away and undeserving to be called a Dai-Yokozuna.

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Also there is only one non-college rikishi in the list above.

Well, two...Kisenosato and Aminishiki (started after high school).

Even if I believed in the existence of wide-spread yaocho I'd find such a lopsided list hard to believe. It's almost like the intended implication of the list is supposed to be "Asashoryu bullies rikishi into selling wins who entered Ozumo very young and are less likely to make a fuss than collegiate guys. Oh, and all the foreigners are involved too, of course".

Edited by Asashosakari

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And, of course, all of the oyakata knew about this and agreed (in the case of their respective boys going MK) or disagreed - Dewanoumi? Makes no sense. I'm sorry, but I fail to see the yokozuna approaching all those guys, especially so many who pose/posed absolutely no threat to him anyway. These rags need to get real and get aware that everyone reading them is not stupid. That same rag was quoted by the Mainichi paper about Asa's "feelings" about going to Las Vegas, which were pure fabrication, and, which quote apparently called Asa a jolly fat man.

It certainly is "get Asashoryu" time. Just like the yaocho rumors during the Taka-Waka era, but - so far- without the trucks blasting away outside the Kokugikan.

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I dont think that the publishers have any special feelings about asashoryu, its just a big name that will make big headlines, especially when there is a tokyo basho going on. I think they dont care who they throw their dirt on as long as enough people will buy the paper for it.

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I dont think that the publishers have any special feelings about asashoryu, its just a big name that will make big headlines, especially when there is a tokyo basho going on. I think they dont care who they throw their dirt on as long as enough people will buy the paper for it.

Exactly. When Wakanohana III got his tsuna, the Shukan Post claimed it was bought and paid for by Futagoyama. Yaocho allegations even followed Chiyonofuji; though he was accused of selling losses, rather than buying wins.

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More Regurgitation:

Since the Weekly Shukan Gendai magazine went on sale, alleging yokozuna Asashoryu commited bout fixing ("yaocho") during the last Kyushu basho, chairman of the Nihon Sumo Kyokai, Kitanoumi oyakata, publicly commented for the first time on January 23 telling reporters that the Kyokai is currently considering an appropriate response including a legal measure.

He also indicated he would be talking to those rikishis specifically mentioned in the article so that they would be prepared before they'd take any course of action.

The chairman told the members of Yokozuna Deliberation Committee, the Kyokai would investigate fully when the matter was brought up for discussion during the committee meeting overshadowing Asashoryu's feat of winning 20th yusho.

Chairman of the committee Yoshio Ishibashi requested to the Kyokai executives to undertake an immediate and thorough investigation over the allegations and respond accordingly.

"Asashoryu himself stated to me that there was no such a dealing. We will be seriously considering a legal action if we don't receive any satisfactory explanation from them," Takasago oyakata, Asashoryu's shisho, said.

Edit: In a way what's amazing is that this trash magazine is published by Kodansha which is well known for its educational material such as text books. Both _Shukan Gendai_ and _Shukan Post_ are well known for its trashy headlines (mostly sex related) they advertize their issue in trains and newspapers. Their readers are mostly middle aged low to middle income earning men. Even these men themselves feel they are ashamed to take them home in case they are seen by their family members so you will see them reading?! them riding in a train which is as distasteful.

Edited by Jonosuke

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排外的な Bullshit.

It's just laughable...I was thinking about the other way around- somebody paying him to loose when I was reading the topic- he simply don't need to cause he damn is the best.

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Just to play the devil's advocate, what about this? Asa is the best but pays the guys to make sure he doesn't get injured during the bouts. They accept it because (1) they would loose anyway, (2) they don't want to get tsuriotoshied, (3) they don't want get bullied later for beating him or injuring him, (4) they get some allowance.

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I'd believe that Asashoryu really WILL win 100 yusho before I'd believe this ridiculous accusation. (Laughing...)

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OFF TOPIC !!!!OFF TOPIC !!!!OFF TOPIC !!!!OFF TOPIC !!!!OFF TOPIC !!!!

"long time no see" Jesinofuji !!!!!

and where is the "white phoenix" from your signature?

OFF TOPIC !!!!OFF TOPIC !!!!OFF TOPIC !!!!OFF TOPIC !!!!OFF TOPIC !!!!

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I think that these yaocho "accusations" are not so much an attack on the integrity of sumo, as much as they are an expression of a certain undercurrent, in sumo, and in society. It is really hard to come to terms with how dominant and how good Asashoryu really is, and so we search for answers, and try to make sense of it, anyway we can.

These papers are just like the National Enquirer and that stupid Weekly World News, and all other tabloids, they have no real journalistic aspirations or integrity. They do, however, serve an important purpose (I suppose... (Blushing...) ) and that is to express the unexpressable in society. They do reflect our anxieties, and maybe even the "zeitgeist" of the lowest common denominator. It is there, and a lot of people want to feel some sense of understanding, no matter how absurd, about Asashoryu, (or Britney, or Government conspiracies, or UFO's or whatever). It can't just BE the way it looks, there has to be something more to it. "There Just Has To Be!!!" (Laughing...)

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I think that these yaocho "accusations" are not so much an attack on the integrity of sumo, as much as they are an expression of a certain undercurrent, in sumo, and in society. It is really hard to come to terms with how dominant and how good Asashoryu really is, and so we search for answers, and try to make sense of it, anyway we can.

These papers are just like the National Enquirer and that stupid Weekly World News, and all other tabloids, they have no real journalistic aspirations or integrity. They do, however, serve an important purpose (I suppose... (Laughing...) ) and that is to express the unexpressable in society. They do reflect our anxieties, and maybe even the "zeitgeist" of the lowest common denominator. It is there, and a lot of people want to feel some sense of understanding, no matter how absurd, about Asashoryu, (or Britney, or Government conspiracies, or UFO's or whatever). It can't just BE the way it looks, there has to be something more to it. "There Just Has To Be!!!" (Clapping wildly...)

I'm not sure they are comparable to National Enquirer - *sometimes* they break serious stories that the newspapers won't touch. (The most recent examples are local government corruption). As someone who is a (part-time) member of the sumo kisha club, I am pretty sure that sumo beat reporters would not publish this kind of story even if they saw evidence - the groupthink is too strong and they would be so out of line they would be in another queue.

I've read the article and spoken to a few Japanese sportswriters. They are not saying whether they believe it - no one anywhere is going on the record about anything, but they do say that the writer has a pretty good reputation for integrity. The article is based on one unnamed wrestler's quotes, plus an interview with Kyokutenzan - the alleged mediator - where he says he was just talking to wrestlers about non-sumo related stuff - like business problems and cultural issues for younger Mongolians who are newer to sumo and Japan than he is.

Go figure. The piece makes some big accusations and is based mainly on hearsay, but according to some people, the writer is not a hack. Shukan Gendai, on the other hand, has a very well deserved reputation for cheap shots, libel and questionable integrity.

The best thing that could come of this would be sumo cleaning up its money side, but that is like expecting turkeys to vote for Christmas, or mochi to vote for New Year, or beans to vote for setsubun, or... metaphors escape me.

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Anywhere in Japan where there's money involved you'll find gangs and rigging. Business, politics, and the yaks are so intertwined as to be a single entity. The only questions are who is involved willingly and who unwittingly, and to what extend the corruption exists.

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That would be a hard sell to me. He seems to have too much pride for that, and usually match fixing -- chusa -- is done through underlings. I would think that would be difficult for a gaijin, but who knows.

Asa is great, and the obvious visul giveaways to a fixed match have never been apparent to me when I watch the basho...

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Anywhere in Japan where there's money involved you'll find gangs and rigging. Business, politics, and the yaks are so intertwined as to be a single entity. The only questions are who is involved willingly and who unwittingly, and to what extend the corruption exists.

I've often wondered if it actually constitutes "corruption" if it's so pervasive, or if that is just how it actually is, and therefore, it's legitimate? Does that make sense? Is it just a matter of perception, or point of reference? Yak's, generally don't regard themselves as corrupt, do they? Nor do the businessmen, or companys that take advantage of Yak influence, necessarily. The only time there is any consideration, is when someone slips up and exposes the machinery, so to speak. Then someone has to act out this scene of penitence, and "oh, the bad Yakuza" and so on, even though they fool nobody, and everyone knows it's just a show, and what the real play really is. It's not so much corruption, as it is a show, even a ritual.

Anyway, same with yaocho. It is probably just a "matter of fact" part of sumo. Perhaps it isn't so direct and obvious, but I would be willing to believe that micro-politics, and interpersonal relationships are a significant part of sumo.

Now, I am not even suggesting this to be real, but I could (hypothetically speaking, of course) Imagine a scenario in which a yokozuna, or more likely an Ozeki, could "allow" a kinboshi, by perhaps only exerting, say, 85% effort in a match that meant nothing to him, and someday later on, there would be an unspoken "gentleman's agreement," that the (hypothetical) recipient would owe the yokozuna/ozeki a "kinboshi" in return at some point in the future, suppose when in a kadoban situation. There wouldn't even have to be a conscious thought regarding it, just as there isn't necessarily a conscious agreement when they synchronize for the tachiai......

Edited by Iwagakki

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I've often wondered if it actually constitutes "corruption" if it's so pervasive, or if that is just how it actually is, and therefore, it's legitimate? Does that make sense? Is it just a matter of perception, or point of reference? Yak's, generally don't regard themselves as corrupt, do they? Nor do the businessmen, or companys that take advantage of Yak influence, necessarily. The only time there is any consideration, is when someone slips up and exposes the machinery, so to speak. Then someone has to act out this scene of penitence, and "oh, the bad Yakuza" and so on, even though they fool nobody, and everyone knows it's just a show, and what the real play really is. It's not so much corruption, as it is a show, even a ritual.

I think you're basically correct. It is a fact of life. It seems to be accepted from the top on down the the man on the street. An open secret, if you will. As to the "Is it legit?" question, if it's accepted by the vast majority then perhaps so. The moral/ethical questions can be left to philosophers.

Anyway, same with yaocho. It is probably just a "matter of fact" part of sumo. Perhaps it isn't so direct and obvious, but I would be willing to believe that micro-politics, and interpersonal relationships are a significant part of sumo.

Now, I am not even suggesting this to be real, but I could (hypothetically speaking, of course) Imagine a scenario in which a yokozuna, or more likely an Ozeki, could "allow" a kinboshi, by perhaps only exerting, say, 85% effort in a match that meant nothing to him, and someday later on, there would be an unspoken "gentleman's agreement," that the (hypothetical) recipient would owe the yokozuna/ozeki a "kinboshi" in return at some point in the future, suppose when in a kadoban situation. There wouldn't even have to be a conscious thought regarding it, just as there isn't necessarily a conscious agreement when they synchronize for the tachiai......

Seems a reasonable hypothesis to me.

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Now, I am not even suggesting this to be real, but I could (hypothetically speaking, of course) Imagine a scenario in which a yokozuna, or more likely an Ozeki, could "allow" a kinboshi, by perhaps only exerting, say, 85% effort in a match that meant nothing to him, and someday later on, there would be an unspoken "gentleman's agreement," that the (hypothetical) recipient would owe the yokozuna/ozeki a "kinboshi" in return at some point in the future, suppose when in a kadoban situation. There wouldn't even have to be a conscious thought regarding it, just as there isn't necessarily a conscious agreement when they synchronize for the tachiai......

Nitpicking- an Ozeki can't allow a "kinboshi" simply because a "kinboshi" is achieved only by a Maegashira rikishi winning against a Yokozuna. Subsequently, when the other guy loses to a Y/O in return, it can't be a "kinboshi", since Y/O are not eligible for "kinboshis" in the first place... I think you meant a "shiroboshi", though an "umeboshi" would not be outside the realms of reason.

Still, I get what you're implying, though I don't believe it happens at this level.

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Nitpicking- an Ozeki can't allow a "kinboshi" simply because a "kinboshi" is achieved only by a Maegashira rikishi winning against a Yokozuna. Subsequently, when the other guy loses to a Y/O in return, it can't be a "kinboshi", since Y/O are not eligible for "kinboshis" in the first place... I think you meant a "shiroboshi", though an "umeboshi" would not be outside the realms of reason.

Still, I get what you're implying, though I don't believe it happens at this level.

You have, however, seen the demonstration bouts at the various koen, jungyo, and whatnot, and how real they appear. It's just two guys not that high up the banzuke demo-ing techniques and so on. They make it look real as can be, even though they're not fighting. Much like finely polished kata in other martial arts. It's not outside the realm of possibility (even if it doesn't happen at the highest level, as you suggest).

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[You have, however, seen the demonstration bouts at the various koen, jungyo, and whatnot, and how real they appear. It's just two guys not that high up the banzuke demo-ing techniques and so on. They make it look real as can be, even though they're not fighting. Much like finely polished kata in other martial arts. It's not outside the realm of possibility (even if it doesn't happen at the highest level, as you suggest).

I have seen it very close up lately, yes.. All I'm saying is I doubt it's done at the highest level. As for MK- KK win trading and eye-contact agreements, it is totally possible, sure..

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Perhaps not going so nasty against someone who really needs the win wouldn't be called "yaocho" but "kuuki wo yomu"

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