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Afrozuna

Kotooshu loses tamely to the Yokozuna

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What a very boring bout. I just turned on the live link and happened upon a clueless Kotooshu trying to strangle the Yokozuna. That was how high they seemed to be holding each other. Next thing I knew Kotooshu was on the floor. What a dissapointment, I think he loses his sumo sense due to nerves whenever he is facing the Yokozuna.

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i don't think Kotooshu's problem was his "Sumo-sense". He was clearly overpowered by the yokozuna. The force of that twist was out of this world and i believe noone could recover from a throw attempt like that.

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i don't think Kotooshu's problem was his "Sumo-sense". He was clearly overpowered by the yokozuna. The force of that twist was out of this world and i believe noone could recover from a throw attempt like that.

My sentiment exactly. I thought it was a baeutiful sukuinage. (Shaking head...)

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Perhaps I have confused you by sumo sense I mean "presence of mind". Kotooshu just seemed to be going through the motions as if he had already decided he was not going to win. Even when they were preparing for the bout Kotooshu was barely able to stare the Yokozuna in the eyes. It's as if he is so scared of Shoryu that his mind leaves him. I can understand the pressure of fighting the top man on the last day of the basho is considerable. Perhaps Chiyotaikai would have risen to the occassion and not suffered from butterflies. Kotooshu is not the person I would gamble my life on. He really lack aggressiveness, a little "too soft" in his demeanour. I know some won't agree but hey it's just my humble opinion.

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It's as if he is so scared of Shoryu that his mind leaves him.

he learned his lesson (Shaking head...)

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Remind me again why everyone started to dislike Kotooshu so much all of a sudden?

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Remind me again why everyone started to dislike Kotooshu so much all of a sudden?

how exactly did you came to the conclusion that we "hate" Kotooshu from reading the above posts? Don't you agree that he was clearly overpowered by the yokozuna in this bout? the nage speaks of itself ....

or do you think that the bout i posted is not in Kotooshu's mind every time he faces the Yokozuna?

i surely don't hate Kotooshu, but clearly i don't love him either.

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...it's just my humble opinion.

The words Uriah and Heep come to mind.

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I used the word dislike, not hate. This is based on my observations of this forum, people discuss Kotooshu like he's some kind of idiot or weakling.

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I used the word dislike, not hate. This is based on my observations of this forum, people discuss Kotooshu like he's some kind of idiot or weakling.

I have the impression the discussion is treating him like he is under-achieving. Which he clearly is in my view, and it's just a sign of setting the bar high for him, which is actually a good thing if you think about it. And I bet you have higher hopes of him as well.

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...it's just my humble opinion.

The words Uriah and Heep come to mind.

No, that's 'umble.

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I used the word dislike, not hate. This is based on my observations of this forum, people discuss Kotooshu like he's some kind of idiot or weakling.

I have the impression the discussion is treating him like he is under-achieving. Which he clearly is in my view, and it's just a sign of setting the bar high for him, which is actually a good thing if you think about it. And I bet you have higher hopes of him as well.

Setting the bar is a good thing. Thinking that he doesn't deserve his rank, that he should be taught a lesson or something, or looking for henkas where none exist and showing almost no respect for the ozeki, is another thing. Anyway, my complaint isn't really justified because bias is always expected in sports/competition forums.

Have a nice day, and let's all hope to see more of everybody's best shape.

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First of all I think the only person who can tell for sure that Kotooshu was going to the dohyo in state of mind not to win is Asashoryu himself. Any other sorts of statements concerning this question are totally incongruous and borders on foolishness.

aderechelsea, the old bout between Asahoryu and Kotooshu you have posted has no bearing on the subject. I just can't can't find the sence. (Applauding...)

constant whining and moody attitude

sign_stupid.gif

Finally it is very funny seeing bunch of people who physical activity deplete only with sitting in front ot their PC pretending be competent and discussing such hard sport like sumo. (Applauding...)

Edited by donlubo

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Nishinoshima, I was not talking exactly for you. But you know the old proverb "A guilty conscience needs no accuser"...

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What a very boring bout.

I just saw the bout, found it beautiful in all possible respects. Initially Kotooshu did very well to stay low and deny a good grip to the yokozuna, and then he tried to move forward decisively. The sukuinage was simply fabulous. How is it possible to find this "boring"? Beats me...

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Did he just bring the devastating "keyboard warriors" gambit into Sumoforum? (Showing respect...)

I thought the throw was lovely. It would be hard to resist that kind of powerful twist/throw, even if you WEREN'T Kotooshu.

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Just to add my two cents, sure it would be nice to humanize Asashoryu a little bit on Senshuraku, and have Kotooshu live up to a higher standard and let us know that he is slowly coming back to pre-injured Osh, but the bout wasn't boring at all. Osh gave it his best and I thought to myself "now if he could only put this much effort and concentration into every bout he'd probably have been in the yusho race until day 12 or 13." And the throw was magnificent.

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...it's just my humble opinion.

The words Uriah and Heep come to mind.

'eavy metal :-P

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hello, all...

i am a Kotooshu fan. yes, i am. and being such, i would like to tell that i am ashamed of what he did this basho. the whole last year he was unable to fight normally, coz he was struggling injuries. it was long hard time. many weaker rikishi used that to get easy victories over him. and when finally, in the beginning of this basho the cameras did show his legs free of any bandages, i told to myself 'look, he will now fight them all' as in the good old time. but guess what... only a minute after showing his legs free of any bandages, he did henka to kisenosato. oh my, oh my.... why so, kotooshu, why so? then it was a long empty basho for him. he lack 2 things.

first he lacks the desire to win. just take a look at Ama. he never gives up, he never steps inside the ring without determination to win or die trying.

second Kotooshu lacks agressiveness. look at his lost from Tokitenku. look at the fight Chiyotaikai Asashoryu last basho. did kotooshu ever fought that way? maybe he is too soft. maybe he afraids to bite someone like Ivender Hollyfeeld. (well, dont take me he should bite someone's nose or ear)

well, i really would like to see my favorite Kotooshu as he could be. fighting everyone the way he can. of course he can. the question is 'when?' coz in the near future, i dotn see nor new Ozeki, nor new Yokozuna. the sumo became without any intrigue. Asa gains basho after basho, and there is no one to stop him.

sad, but true.

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hello, all...

i am a Kotooshu fan. yes, i am. and being such, i would like to tell that i am ashamed of what he did this basho. the whole last year he was unable to fight normally, coz he was struggling injuries. it was long hard time. many weaker rikishi used that to get easy victories over him. and when finally, in the beginning of this basho the cameras did show his legs free of any bandages, i told to myself 'look, he will now fight them all' as in the good old time. but guess what... only a minute after showing his legs free of any bandages, he did henka to kisenosato. oh my, oh my.... why so, kotooshu, why so? then it was a long empty basho for him. he lack 2 things.

first he lacks the desire to win. just take a look at Ama. he never gives up, he never steps inside the ring without determination to win or die trying.

second Kotooshu lacks agressiveness. look at his lost from Tokitenku. look at the fight Chiyotaikai Asashoryu last basho. did kotooshu ever fought that way? maybe he is too soft. maybe he afraids to bite someone like Ivender Hollyfeeld. (well, dont take me he should bite someone's nose or ear)

well, i really would like to see my favorite Kotooshu as he could be. fighting everyone the way he can. of course he can. the question is 'when?' coz in the near future, i dotn see nor new Ozeki, nor new Yokozuna. the sumo became without any intrigue. Asa gains basho after basho, and there is no one to stop him.

sad, but true.

Pardon me for the (perhaps) stupid question, but is it not the case that he did the henka to win, and therefore showing a henka would be displaying the desire to win? Or is this somehow a magical case of 'the grass is greener' where he's doing a henka because he's not aggressive and doesn't want to win, despite having won because of the henka?

And I also seem to remember Ama using a henka in this tournament, versus Kotooshuu no less, so I s'pose that means that he was never giving up. Probably something to do with being smaller.

Kotooshuu is young. Very young. He's had one make-koshi since he started sumo. He's fought through a pretty hefty injury without losing his rank. Yes, he hasn't been charming the dickens out of us like he did in Nagoya two years back, but it isn't as if he's going kyujo and kadoban like certain other current Ozekis.

The sky isn't falling. Asashoryuu's great, and nobody is predicting his decline because he's great. He loses so infrequently that when Kotooshuu or Hakuho somehow manage to string a couple wins or close fights together against him, they get heralded as the next rival of the Yokozuna. That's just silly.

It'll click for someone sometime. If we knew who and when it would happen, there'd be nothing fun about the sport. Enjoy the unpredictability.

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he lack 2 things.

first he lacks the desire to win. just take a look at Ama. he never gives up, he never steps inside the ring without determination to win or die trying.

second Kotooshu lacks agressiveness. look at his lost from Tokitenku. look at the fight Chiyotaikai Asashoryu last basho. did kotooshu ever fought that way? maybe he is too soft.

Kotooshuu is young. Very young. He's had one make-koshi since he started sumo. He's fought through a pretty hefty injury without losing his rank. Yes, he hasn't been charming the dickens out of us like he did in Nagoya two years back, but it isn't as if he's going kyujo and kadoban like certain other current Ozekis.

The sky isn't falling. Asashoryuu's great, and nobody is predicting his decline because he's great. He loses so infrequently that when Kotooshuu or Hakuho somehow manage to string a couple wins or close fights together against him, they get heralded as the next rival of the Yokozuna. That's just silly.

It'll click for someone sometime. If we knew who and when it would happen, there'd be nothing fun about the sport. Enjoy the unpredictability.

I think what is really frustrating about Kotooshu is that we seem to want it more for him that he really wants it for himself. That really irritates you as a fan when you are going all out for someone and they don't really seem to be determined.

Kotooshu is not that young. How many Yokozunas had already reached that status by the time they were Kotooshu's age? Hakuho is young but he needs ante up soon. A rikishi must take all his opportunities agressively as you never know when the injuries will kick in and so forth. That is why we are concerned about the current perfomance of the Young Ozekis, we don't want them to become the next Kaio, Taikai or Tochy i.e. perennial Ozekis who are repetitively kadoban.

As for the user who said we are just seating in front of our PCs and making comments when we know nothing about sumo. Get a grip, this forum is for sumo fans whether beginner, intermediate or advanced is irrelevant. If you feel too advanced for us ordinary sumo fans then go somewhere else.

The bottom line of all the posts here is the apparent lack of hunger from Kotooshu to be a significant challenger to the Yokozuna. Clearly going for such a long time without another Yokozuna is driving everyone crazy. Even if Shoryu is too good, someone should be racking up decent numbers i.e. 12-3, 13-2 consistently enough to create some sort of buzz. Right now the only buzz is when will the Yokozuna go Kyujo to give others a chance. No chances of that happening anytime soon I guess. The Yokozuna's effecient sumo augurs well for his health

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I think what is really frustrating about Kotooshu is that we seem to want it more for him that he really wants it for himself. That really irritates you as a fan when you are going all out for someone and they don't really seem to be determined.

Kotooshu is not that young. How many Yokozunas had already reached that status by the time they were Kotooshu's age? Hakuho is young but he needs ante up soon. A rikishi must take all his opportunities agressively as you never know when the injuries will kick in and so forth. That is why we are concerned about the current perfomance of the Young Ozekis, we don't want them to become the next Kaio, Taikai or Tochy i.e. perennial Ozekis who are repetitively kadoban.

As for the user who said we are just seating in front of our PCs and making comments when we know nothing about sumo. Get a grip, this forum is for sumo fans whether beginner, intermediate or advanced is irrelevant. If you feel too advanced for us ordinary sumo fans then go somewhere else.

The bottom line of all the posts here is the apparent lack of hunger from Kotooshu to be a significant challenger to the Yokozuna. Clearly going for such a long time without another Yokozuna is driving everyone crazy. Even if Shoryu is too good, someone should be racking up decent numbers i.e. 12-3, 13-2 consistently enough to create some sort of buzz. Right now the only buzz is when will the Yokozuna go Kyujo to give others a chance. No chances of that happening anytime soon I guess. The Yokozuna's effecient sumo augurs well for his health

Age of Yokozuna Promotion:

Chiyonoyama - 24

Maedayama - 33

Terukuni - 23

Akinoumi - 27

Haguroyama - 26

Futabayama - 25

Minanogawa - 32

Kagamisato - 29

Yoshibayama - 29

Tochinishiki - 29

Wakanohana - 29

Asahio - 29

Kashiwado - 22

Taiho - 21

Tochinoumi - 25

Sadanoyama - 26

Tamanoumi - 25

Kitanofuji - 27

Kotozakura - 32

Wajima - 25

Kitanoumi - 21

Wakanohana - 25

Mienoumi - 31

Chiyonofuji - 26

Takanosato - 30

Futahaguro - 22

Hokutoumi - 23

Onokuni - 24

Asahifuji - 30

(these are all the yokozuna on sumo.goo.ne.jp's english page -- I don't feel like searching through the Japanese one currently, but if someone has more data, I will happily compile the results for you)

Average age: 26.55

Rikishi whose yokozuna debut was prior to Kotooshuu's age (24, for roundness sake): 8

Now I know that more modern rikishi tend to be debuting slightly sooner than they do now, but still. Chiyonofuji started at 26, and was quite successful (from what I gather). Kaio is also NOT a bad rikishi by any means! A record of 847-540-132 in his career, 5 career yusho -- he's done better than some (many) yokozuna!

Things will change. It may not be Kotooshuu who springs into the spotlight, but it may be (he has time), and there's no way to tell when (not if) this will happen. Have patience.

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Someone said he has the size. Wrong. He is too tall for sumo, the same as Akebono was. Sure, both of them zoomed up to the top, but once the right-sized guys figured them out, they were both toast. Good old Baruto -- the anti-ooshu is going to get really hurt if he is not careful for the same reasons.

I'm sure he can hang around for a few years, but his height will just encourage more injuries to his joints -- knees especially. What he needs to work on is gift-giving. His jump into the can on behalf of Kaio's need for a kachikoshi was just so obvious. If he is gonna join that crew, he needs to work on his flu shots. Actually a well done chusa is a thing of beauty. His was just silly...

YMMV

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... but his height will just encourage more injuries to his joints -- knees especially.

Hm, I thought that it is the weight that can lead to more injuries to the knees... (Sign of approval...)

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