Sign in to follow this  
Sokkenaiyama

The Kotooshu-Homasho bout

Recommended Posts

I watched it on the NSK stream today, and they awarded it to Homasho suspiciously easy. It's true, the quality was poor and I'm an ardent fan of Kotooshu, so I might have not seen it right. What does everyone else think? Should there have been a mono-ii?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100%. Total favoritism here. At least a mono ii - Kaloyan thought so too.

Boo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching it on the stream, I thought the decision was the right one. I still think that after rewatching it a couple of times, but definitely close enough to warrant a mono-ii.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me and the japanese people sitting behind me all asked loud "Monoii!?!"

But to me, - far away from the Dohyo, it looked like Osh touched first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw it on Japanese tv and even the commentators watching the replay said Homasho touched down first. Should have been a mono-ii at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, Kotooshu pulls a henka on Kisenosato on day 1 and gets stiffed by the judges on day 3 against Homasho. Why am I not surprised?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest rikishiboy
So, Kotooshu pulls a henka on Kisenosato on day 1 and gets stiffed by the judges on day 3 against Homasho. Why am I not surprised?

what I noticed was the distainful look Kotooshu had on his face when there was no mono-ii. I agree there should have been one, just to show they looked at it thourghly, but Koto's reaction was not that of a champion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure looked close enough to warrant a mono-ii to me, (and I had to view it again and again let alone having not been able to tell the first time.) Oh well thats the kind of respect you get as a lackluster Ozeki I guess lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Photo

According to the Mainichi, Osh was p.o.'d. As he is wont to do, he first took it out on the bathroom door. Then he yelled out to no one in particular, "Who were the *&^%$ shimpan on duty?"

Another source--a highly unreliable one--claims that five parked cars (no more, no less) in the KK lot had their tires slashed last evening . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watched it over a few times in slo-mo and freeze frame... It sure looked like Homasho's elbow touched first, to me, from the angle of the cameras that was shown. :-D It could be that the Shinpan at the Dohyo side saw that Kotooshu touched his head/mage on the that side below the camera's view. The angle from that side of the Dohyo was never shown or didn't have any taken from that view.

I am a Homasho and Kotooshu fan, so I wanted the BEST MAN to win. It sure seemed to me like the match warranted at least a Mono-ii. (Whistling...) I probably would have to lean more toward Torinaoshi, it was so close. If Kotooshu is upset, I can't blame him. I really think Homasho touched first, but I was not Dohyo-side so who knows??? Apparently, none was called so it is what it is... (Shaking head...) . Strange how the matches are decided sometimes! (Shaking head...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Another source--a highly unreliable one--claims that five parked cars (no more, no less) in the KK lot had their tires slashed last evening . . .

Hahahahhaha.... Yes, it must be a super-reliable source.

It must have been Kotooshu in a robber's suit and a big dagger in his mouth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that a mono-ii was in order . . . but FWIW, I think Kotooshu's entire body was outside of the tawara and completely upside down by the time Homasho touched. If anyone was thinking of mono-ii they probably reconsidered in light of the "shini-tai" rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Photo

According to the Mainichi, Osh was p.o.'d. As he is wont to do, he first took it out on the bathroom door. Then he yelled out to no one in particular, "Who were the *&^%$ shimpan on duty?"

Another source--a highly unreliable one--claims that five parked cars (no more, no less) in the KK lot had their tires slashed last evening . . .

On the photo it looks like, that Kotooshu is in the air and Homasho down. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On the photo it looks like, that Kotooshu is in the air and Homasho down. :-)

It looks to me, that Kotooshu is below the dohyo-line (before Homasho is down), but photo can't show the real situation. Mono-ii should have been the predicting answer for later questions. (Blushing...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On the photo it looks like, that Kotooshu is in the air and Homasho down. :-)

If you find the series of photos from Asojima's day3 pics thread, you will see that the photo from above link was shot a moment after Osh's left arm bounced off of the dohyo edge. I've watched the bout a few more times and I'm more and more convinced it was a clear case of shini-tai (HT to those here who have educated me on this (Blushing...) ) In fact shini-tai has been a recurring problem for Osh - he has lost a number of bouts like this, Kokkai last time IIRC. It may be that he tends to rely on a throw to rescue him from the jaws of defeat, rather than using the throw on the offensive. Also related is his tendency to hold on to the mawashi for too long once he has already effectively lost. And we can't forget that form-wise, he lost the bouts on day 2&3 because he was too upright each time.

I still agree there should have been a mono-ii, a tori-naoshi would have been a likely outcome . . .

[edit: for clarity]

Edited by kaiguma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Homasho was the aggressor and instigated the throw therefore he got the benefit of the doubt, as some said Osh was dead in the air at the time of Homashos contact. Perhaps Osh was also being "punished" for his Henka the other day, perhaps someone with more fighting spirit might have gotten a mono -ii.

Either way its in the books: Homasho white star - Osh black star.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On the photo it looks like, that Kotooshu is in the air and Homasho down. :-)

It looks to me, that Kotooshu is below the dohyo-line (before Homasho is down), but photo can't show the real situation. Mono-ii should have been the predicting answer for later questions. (Blushing...)

The photo is long after the initial contact with the ground. It shows the "bounce" afterward.

Kotooushuu's left forearm and Houmashou's right forearm both touched at the same time. There should have been a mono-ii and a torinaoshi, but I think, as others have said, the shinpan figured Houmashou had the flow of the match, and with Osh's henka they were none too inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more from the media. In case Osh and his fans think that he is being unfairly treated, the shimpan closest to the action was Kumegawa Oyakata (former komusubi Kotoinazuma), who is attached to same Sadogadake Beya as Osh. When told of that, Osh said, "I thought we touched down at the same time."

Hanaregoma Oyakata, head of he shimpan department, said, "Look, everyone is watching the same [action], so stop complaining and just be concerned with doing good sumo."

After a while, Osh cooled down: "Ahh, [shoganai]. What can I do? I'll just gambarize some more tomorrow."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the shinpan figured Houmashou had the flow of the match, and with Osh's henka they were none too inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Well, the shinpan figured wrong. Osh was totally the attacker, he used his left uwate to initiate the throw. To me , there is no doubt about it. Look, listen. and learn:

http://www.banzuke.com/~makuuchi/3-O1e_Kot...omasho(0-2).mov

Mash is not attempting anything, only countering (very effectively, it seems..).

At least a monoii. Xenophobic book-keeping. So what if he henka'd a day before? Since when does this mean anything a day later to 6 judges together??

They hate yogurt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

after watching the movie on banzuke.com, it is so clear, that the initiative was totally kotooshu's. he went for a throw, and he did it. the elbow of homasho touches first the tawara. it was totally kotooshu's victory, and it was robbed. it doesnt mean, that kotooshu should have done that senseless henka on day 1. the cameras were showing his knees without any bandages for half an hour, meaning he is healthy now. and yet he did a stupid henka. shame indeed, but on day 3 he was robbed. ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
After a while, Osh cooled down: "Ahh, [shoganai]. What can I do? I'll just gambarize some more tomorrow."

Im sure that after slashing tires he succesfully venteeed his ager and will be godd as new ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the shinpan figured Houmashou had the flow of the match, and with Osh's henka they were none too inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Well, the shinpan figured wrong. Osh was totally the attacker, he used his left uwate to initiate the throw. To me , there is no doubt about it. Look, listen. and learn:

http://www.banzuke.com/~makuuchi/3-O1e_Kot...omasho(0-2).mov

Mash is not attempting anything, only countering (very effectively, it seems..).

At least a monoii. Xenophobic book-keeping. So what if he henka'd a day before? Since when does this mean anything a day later to 6 judges together??

They hate yogurt.

I agree with you 100% on this one. Kotooshu was the attacker, and Homasho touched down first. Even in the case of a monoii, Kotooshu should have the benefit of the doubt. Though, why there is any doubt I can't understand. It seemed really obvious to me.

I was watching on the nice, really big screens in a local department store and the Japanese guy next to me tried to explain it away as shintai, as well. Bollocks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After having the bout watched for several times I still cannot say who touched the ground first, but I think the gyoji could't see it. Osh was overlaid by Homasho for him. I cannot imagine how he colud make his decision..

mono-ii... sure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some more from the media. In case Osh and his fans think that he is being unfairly treated, the shimpan closest to the action was Kumegawa Oyakata (former komusubi Kotoinazuma), who is attached to same Sadogadake Beya as Osh. When told of that, Osh said, "I thought we touched down at the same time."

Hanaregoma Oyakata, head of he shimpan department, said, "Look, everyone is watching the same [action], so stop complaining and just be concerned with doing good sumo."

After a while, Osh cooled down: "Ahh, [shoganai]. What can I do? I'll just gambarize some more tomorrow."

And he did just that today, like an Ozeki should... (Shaking head...) (Wearing a paperbag...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this