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Posts posted by Eikokurai

  1. 2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

    You're still listed as inactive member, you have to be regular member to have the other options. The last time someone had that problem, it was fixed by checking the option of "Remember me" while signing in.

    Doesn’t seem to have worked. Perhaps it’s just the internet here in China messing about. I couldn’t even create an account for the longest time.

  2. 13 minutes ago, Fukurou said:

    There should be 3 links immediately below the end of your post - Quote, Edit, Options. Options contains the link to let you delete your post. Edit lets you, well, edit.

    I just have “quote”. I think maybe I have to earn editing privileges like a young toriteki has to earn the right to wear a winter coat.

  3. On 4/14/2018 at 00:24, Benihana said:

    Where does that 1-7 come from? Did he have that extra bout because another rikishi needed an opponent to get his 7th?


    Edit: And again something i have not seen before. I love sumo :)

    Just for extra info, a win in such a bout is called a kachidoku and a loss is a makedoku. :)

    • Thanks 1

  4. 1 hour ago, sekitori said:

    There seems to a valid reason for doing that, and it's not restriced to rikishis. Athletes in many sports yawn right before competition. The reason is that it somehow combats anxiety. This is the explanation from one source and it seems to be reinforced by other sources as well.  "When you yawn your brain and body release certain chemicals such as dopamine, nitric oxide, serotonin, amino acids and oxytocin that help to cope with stress."  Another theory is that yawning regulates the temperature and metabolsim of the brain and makes it work more efficiently.  

    An athlete who became famous for practicing  this was Olympic speed skater Apollo Ohno. When asked why he does it, he replied, "It makes me feel better. It gets the oxygen in and the nerves out".

    Getting the oxygen in and the nerves out can be important when facing a very strong  human being whose sole purpose at the time is making you fall to the ground or knocking  you off the area of competition.


    Interesting. I’ve noticed that I always yawn involuntarily when I’m nervous. Perhaps that’s my body acting on instinct to try and put me at ease. 

  5. 2 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

    I'll try to state my point once more, then move on.

    If you imagine Kisenosato's record from 2017.05 to now if he weren't a Yokozuna, he'd probably be intai already: he's won 13 bouts in 6 tournaments (Terunofuji  has won 20).  I think both rikishi have career-threatening issues, but if Terunofuji's problem is  diabetes only, there is a chance he can manage it over the short-to-medium range.

    You may say, "that's not fair; Kise had two 0-0-15's, while Terunofuji had none."  But Kisenosato fell not even a half-rank from it.  And he left the other basho early, as prescribed by tradition.  No coming back on Day 11 for a Yokozuna (and I don't disagree with that.)

    The ranking system in Sumo is tough and unrelenting -- win and advance, lose and fall back.  At the same time, the idea of the Yokozuna is the ideal of a heroic figure in the Greek sense -- larger than life in victory, and poignantly tragic in decline.  In my opinion, the breeding and training of larger, stronger wrestlers makes the occurrence of injuries almost inevitable; but that means short careers as Yokozuna, as we see in other sports (NFL Football comes to mind).  To guarantee at least reasonable length to a Yokozuna career, the YDC/NSK has to give all the benefit of the doubt to an injured Yokozuna [Hakuho is a bit of a freak of nature, though he has also skipped tournaments].  I'm not against this policy; I'm just saying it exists.




    I think where we’re having trouble is that you have in mind “career-threatening injuries” whereas I was really just thinking about the sort of manageable decline common to all athletes as a result of age and general wear and tear. Kotoshōgiku is an example of what I mean. He’s past his peak but ploughs on regardless as a Maegashira, perhaps with the occasional return to junior sanyaku. Had he somehow made Yokozuna after that yusho in 2016 he’d have properly gone intai already. At 34 and after 16 years on the dohyo his body isn’t able to perform at Yokozuna/Ozeki levels but he can still compete, can still get paid. Why not carry on if that’s what you want to do and loss of rank doesn’t bother you? At the end of the day, for a lot of rikishi sumo is just a job. It’s easy to get caught up in the aura of it all, but before it’s a cultural event sumo is a sport and the guys doing it are athletes earning their crust.

  6. 1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

    OK, here's the example:

    Basho              Kisenosato      Terunofuji


    2017.03           13-2     Y2e      13-2     O1w


    2017.05           6-5-4   Y1e      12-3     O1e


    2017.07           2-4-9   Y2e      1-5-9   O1e


    2017.09           0-0-15 Y2e      1-5-9   O2e


    2017.11           4-6-5   Y2e      0-5-10 S2e


    2018.01           1-5-9   Y1w     0-8-7   M10e


    2018.03           0-0-15 Y2e      6-9       J5w


    Kisenosato was shut down 4 times after his injury, because it isn't fitting to watch a Yokozuna struggle.  Terunofuji came back to the dohyo on Day 11 with the impossible hope that he could pick up even one win and stop the slide down the banzuke; he lost all five.

    All I'm saying is that Yokozunae do have the pressure that comes when there is no lower rank to drop to -- but the YDC goes out of their way to keep them active if there's any chance they can regain their powers.


    You and I are not having the same conversation.

    My point is simply that a Yokozuna doesn’t have the option of getting demoted to prolong a career. If they underperform, they will be expected to retire eventually. They may be given leeway to get healthy/rediscover their form, but it isn’t forever. Kakuryu was about one basho from a press conference last year. Terunofuji never was. He just accepted demotion and carried on. If you love your sumo career, it may be better to never take the rope as it’s your choice alone when to call it a day. The JSA has never pressured an aging Maegashira to hang up his mawashi.

  7. On 4/15/2018 at 22:15, Yamanashi said:

    Has that changed recently?  If Terunofuji had broken through to Yokozuna before his recent ills, wouldn't the YDC be now saying that "Yokozuna Terunofuji should heal himself, and prepare to contend for a basho when he is ready"?  Instead, he's trying to stave off a trip to Makushitaville.

    See Kisenosato as an example. He’s being allowed to sit out for now but it won’t last indefinitely. If he can’t return at good strength, he will come under pressure to retire. As an ozeki he could just slide down the rankings and nobody would mind. Yokozuna don’t get that luxury: for them it’s all or nothing. They can’t voluntarily get demoted.

  8. On 4/11/2018 at 20:19, Andreas21 said:

    In my opinion, the last decade is void of any should-have-been Yokozuna and Ozeki. All the borderline case had been promoted stretching any pro-forma rules.

    But clearly, Kaio should have been promoted to Yokozuna with his 5 Yusho, 11 Jun-Yusho, 879 Makuuchi wins, 36 double-digit basho in Makuuchi Jo-i, 15 special prices. As a Rikishi he is among the greatest in history, there can be no question about that. The greatest should be awarded the Yokozuna title, no matter what.

    I acknowledge, he has never been that dominant, and was not as consistent at his peak. That said, I consider the de-facto rules as highly inadequate. Yokozuna title should really be a honory title, and as such, even more flexible than it is now. Especially basing it on ONLY TWO consecutive basho is really nonsense. In know, in the YDC discussion on Kisenosato it has slightly been mitigated as previous performances have been mentioned - but still the basic standard is: two great basho is enough. Two lucky Yusho in the absence of the best opposition gets you the nod, while a consistent string of alternating Yusho and third-place does not - it is ridiculous! Even more so, as even the lower Ozeki title considers 3 basho. IMO it would be much more adequate to consider the results of the last six basho. And not by strict rules on numbers: taking the situation into account, absences, unlucky decisions, circumstances. An put more emphasis on quality of Sumo, Hinkaku, general demeanor, ability to represent Ozumo. I mean, this is what the YDC is there for! In that scenario, probably about the same Riskishi would have been promoted, but definitely Kaio.

    Kaiō is one of my favourites. His and Chiyotaikai’s era at Ozeki was when I was first getting into sumo properly. I loved them both, but nothing is clear about Kaiō’s situation. Indeed, his case is pretty much the perfect example of borderline. Had he been promoted I would have said, “Sure, I get it. His numbers are good and his sumo is strong. He has the yushos to show it.” But, equally, him not getting promoted elicits a “Sure, I get it. He was often kyujo, wasn’t consistent, some of his JYs were well off-pace and he never really put the JSA in the situation where they could avoid the question.” His career record is completely open to interpretation: strong in places, weak in plenty of others. We can’t say that he “clearly” deserved the promotion at all.

    • Like 1

  9. 2 hours ago, Fukurou said:

    I forgot about Australia! Of course "football" there = Australian Rules Football, which always reminded me more of rugby than American football.  (back when they were first starting up, ESPN showed a *lot* of footy)

    Australian’s use ‘football’ for a number of codes: rugby league, rugby union, Aussie rules and actually football. It’s quite confusing.

  10. 10 minutes ago, Zenjimoto said:

    Several of you are completely missing the point of the deeper issue of this topic, and I have no interest in arguing with walls.  Why I am or am not appearing in this forum is also none of your concern.  As you were.

    You can’t count me among those people and nothing I’ve said so far could have given you that impression.

  11. 4 hours ago, Dapeng said:

    The point is, had they trained any outstanding rikishi?


    Not really, but an Oyakata can only be credited so much with that anyway. There are of course subtle differences in how they coach – e.g. a oshi- specialist vs a yotsu-specialist would favour certain kimarite to practice – but a lot of the techniques used are the same across all heya. Everyone is doing butsukari and shiko, for example. Raising a talented rikishi relies a lot on finding a talented recruit to begin with.

  12. 3 hours ago, Zenjimoto said:

    Watch a different sport?  I have been, exactly because I grew tired of some of the archaic BS in sumo, and its inability to put forward meaningful reforms to remedy.  There are many awesome quirky traditions I wouldn't wanna miss (like the way the torikumi or banzuke are made), but other nonsense - like discrimination against women, match-fixing, and hazing/heya violence - among others - are unacceptable, and played a large role in turning me off to the "sport".

    Why are you here then? Looking at your posting history this thread is the first you’ve commented on in over a year and there was a three-year gap before that. I’m curious why you’ve returned now to rant about religion and misogyny. I think you ought to wait for the Guardian opinion piece and share your thoughts there instead of trying to bait fans of sumo here. Your virtue signaling will find a much wider audience on an international newspaper than this obscure forum for a niche sport frequented by a handful of nerds.

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  13. 1 minute ago, Asashosakari said:

    One might rather want to start with the fact that female representation among potential trophy presenters is very rare to begin with. I see Tokyo has a female governor these days - is there no prize to present on behalf of the Metropolis or has this just not been made an issue yet this time around?

    More generally speaking, one just needs to look at all the pictures posted on the forum of rikishi going back to their hometowns or jungyo department reps going out to sign contracts - how many female mayors have we seen in those? I don't recall more than a handful.

    A very good point. That momentum I speak of might come if more Japanese women are in public office and as a result the JSA is more frequently put in awkward situations where it has to tell female politicians that they can’t go on the dohyo. 

  14. 8 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

    There also aren't a whole lot of practical reasons to change it. What's going to run differently if women are no longer banned from the (professional) dohyo? Hair-cutting at retirement ceremonies, and trophy presentations. That's pretty much it, outside of emergency situations like the one that happened here. They're not gonna start having female yobidashi or gyoji all of a sudden. Chalking up a change in the rule as a major victory for women's rights would be, frankly, silly. There are about 700 more important issues to tackle in that realm, including quite a few in Japan I would presume.

    Personally I wouldn't have any issue at all if the ban went away, but I'm with Moti - this will blow over in a matter of weeks.

    Indeed, and that’s why nobody has ever thought about it. The need for change hasn’t really been there.

  15. 2 hours ago, Zenjimoto said:

    The sheer notion that women are "impure" is ludicrous, and has no place in advanced civilization.  It is utter nonsense, and its time has long passed.

    I can’t imagine there are many people actually involved in sumo who believe that about women. The traditions are, I’m sure, upheld for the reason most traditions are: it’s just how things have always been done and nobody has thought to change it. 

    • Like 1

  16. 13 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

    I can’t wait for a Guardian columnist to pick up on this ‘story’ and write an ignorant editorial about how sumo is a microcosm of wider female oppression in patriarchal Japanese culture. Or something.

    I didn’t have to wait very long for it to at least get an article!