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Posts posted by rzombie1988

  1. I decided to catch up with the tournament today since I had forgotten about it and watched Day 4-today.

    Truly unbelieveable. When Kise took his first lost I really thought that was it. Then Hak took another and another.

    This boils down to what I've been saying for a long time - Kisenosato needed a perfect storm to make this happen and he finally got it. Hakuho's injured and/or declining, Kakuryu was out, Harumafuji out, Koto kadoban, Terunofuji MK and Goeido had some bad losses early. I figured someday he'd get it, but he needed a situation like he got here.

    Credit to him for finally getting the win, but let's be frank - this was the easiest tournament in years to win and he finally did. He deserves the Yokozuna title now since Kakuryu got it under similar circumstances and I don't want to hear a single YDC excuse over it.

  2. 31 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

    None of this is interesting.   It's all soap operatic and his sumo wrestling was not impressive.

    There's very few tall guys who don't make it to Juryo. Gaga and Aoiyama aren't good at all and survive in Makuuchi. No reason to think he couldn't do the same.

    You can't teach height.

  3. 8 hours ago, Benevolance said:

    I'm really don't see a lot of pressure on the yokozunae in the near future. None of the young guys so far have been able to turn in convincing, consecutive performances in the meat grinder. Goeidou and the Geek are realistically ranked above their actual level and mostly struggle to hold onto their rank, and Terunofuji is so banged up I'm not sure he'll ever wrestle to his potential. Kise is the only credible threat, and he's only been that for about a year now. 

    Kakuryu manages to be in the yusho race once every four basho, Harumafuji every three basho, and I haven't heard the YDC complaining overly much about it. If Hakuho is only winning one or two tournaments a year, do people really think he should retire?

    It takes time to really get up there and start challenging for more normal yokozunae. It took Kakuryu 10-11 years and took Harumafuji 7-8. I think what we are seeing from people like Shodai, Terunofuji and Mitaekumi is certainly encouraging. These guys made the top 2% in only a few years. We had 7 guys reach their highest ever rank last basho which is pretty good. Long term though, I think sumo is going to end up as a sport with more foreigners in it as there just aren't enough new wrestlers to fill the spots and the talent isn't quite what it used to be.

    I don't think Hakuho should retire, just I think his peak is past and it seems his body is catching up to the years of sumo.

  4. 25 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

    Hakuho, in the last two basho, he lost 9 times.   He's off, way off his standard of excellence.   Is this the beginning of the end or caused by injury soon to be forgotten?   Since I am not a fan of Hakuho, I hope it is the former.  

    I think his absolute peak is over and I think the days of having hopeless opponents are over as well. As long as he can avoid major injury he should always be in the run.

  5. HlL6Rru.jpg

    So I logged some numbers to see roughly where some of some of the wrestlers stand compared to other Ozeki and Yokozuna. I didn't include Chiyotaikai and probably a couple of others, though I probably should have.

    The Yellow means that a wrestler did not complete a full tournament that year and may have not even entered a tournament of the 6.

    I also couldn't go back to Futabayama's time due their only being 2 basho's and less than 15 matches for some of it, but he seems like he would have placed well.

    Some notes:

    - Hakuho is pretty much the best sumo wrestler since it went to 15 day tournaments.

    - Every single person on that list has a title minus Futahaguro and you guessed it, Kisenosato.

    - As expected, Kise truly is just behind the current 3 Yokozunae. He's basically 1 loss behind a few tournaments a year.

    - Kitanoumi was a beast that few people really remember

    - Takanohana was also a god-tier yokozuna and doesn't fully get the credit he deserves. History is going to be very kind to him someday.

    - Some of the numbers might be off a little due to wrestlers in their last 2 years trying to enter basho's and then leaving.

    - Goeido is on track to be one of the worst Ozeki in a long time and Kotooshu was not much better.

    - Musashimaru had his best year ever stat wise near the end of his run, which is interesting.

    - Kaiho's and Akebono's numbers got screwed due to them being injured and out so often. Akebono's records also don't show him having a much harder schedule than Takanohana, as Akebono would frequently have Takanonami, Takanohana, Wakanohana and Musashimaru, while Tak wouldn't have his stablemates to fight.

    - The 1980's had a ton of Yokozuna and Ozeki at the same time which was pretty interesting.

    - Next year will be interesting to see if Hakuho can hold up, since he'd be outlasting even Kaio in the top 2 divisions.

    • Like 5

  6. Here's the official list of various win totals for all tournaments since 1990:


    Since 1990 (161 tournaments), only 43% of the tournament winners got by with 13 wins or less.

    Interesting to note is that 2009 was the hardest year to win a tournament. 1994 was pretty brutal too with Takanohana alone going 14-1 or better 4 different times that year. 1999 and the early 2000's seemed like easier years with the old guard wearing out and Asa not being a force yet. This year wasn't exactly easy either.

    • Like 6

  7. 8 hours ago, YoungSumo said:

    Looks like Kisenosato will be in line for a Yokozuna promotion once again. There should be no worries about his consistency, if only he could get a yusho. 

    The guys that impressed me the most this basho are probably Tamawashi and Arawashi. Little to no buzz surrounding them but both of them did really well. Kakuryu and Shoudai are also hard not to praise for their performances. I'm not sold on Ishura yet, he had a great debut but I feel like Hokutofuji showed overall better sumo.


    Since 11/2011, exactly 5 years ago, there have been:

    8 tournaments won off of 15-0 records - 26% of the 30 tournaments had this as a winning record

    14 tournaments won off of 14-1 records - 46.6% of the 30 tournaments had this as a winning record

    5 tournaments won off of 13-2 records 16.6% of the 30 tournaments had this as a winning record

    3 tournaments won off of 12-3 records 10% of the 30 tournaments had this as a winning record

    What this tells you is that if you are getting 13 wins or less, you don't really have a good chance of getting a title right now. But, if you can get 14+ wins, you have a pretty good chance of winning.  Guess how many 14 win tournaments Kisenosato has had in his career? 0. He's only hit 13 wins 4 times in the same 30 tournament period, which is 13.3% of the time. Until he can start hitting 13 wins consistently, yet alone 14 wins, he doesn't have a great chance of winning a tournament. If he can hit 14 wins and doesn't win, he truly was just unlucky. 14 wins is the going rate for tournaments right now.

    He has good numbers for an Ozeki, but he's just not at Yokozuna level right now. While Kakuryu and Harumafuji can't consistently hit 14-15 wins, they can at least hit it once in a while.

    • Like 5

  8. Thoughts:

    - Kakuryu's been pretty consistent all basho and that's what you need to win.

    - Hakuho was clearly injured all basho and this is starting to become routine, which isn't good for him. I do think he is on the decline sadly.

    - Harumafuji looked pretty good up until the last few days where he fell apart. Really underperformed here and didn't take advantage of the opportunity.

    - Kisenosato now has 12 2nd place finishes without a title, which extends his record for that. It's really hard to believe in the chokeozuna at this point and I honestly think he would need all 3 Yokozunae to be injured plus another Ozeki to really have a shot. He is the choker of all chokers and relied a bit too much on power this basho. Kise also set the record for most wins this year.

    - Goeido showed he really wasn't ready to become a Yokozuna and I think he needs really good conditions to pull it off again like he did last time around.

    - Kotoshogiku was about as bad as he could be this basho.

    - Terunofuji was definitely injured and I wish he could just take time off, get healed and come back 100%, because I know he could have won another title. He is too talented to let these stupid injuries ruin his career.

    - Disappointed that Ichinojo is going to escape demotion. A Juryo demotion might be the kick in the butt he needs to get his act together. He has all of the tools in the world and seemingly could care less.

    • Like 1

  9. 4 hours ago, ryafuji said:

    1. It was Kisenosato who he henka'd; the bout that actually decided the yusho, his playoff win over Terunofuji, was straight-up sumo. 

    2. It doesn't invalidate his 11 other wins in the tournament; he still had the best record. 


    Still pretty cheap to do and it will always put an * near that win for me. Maybe it should be ** since he did it twice.


  10. 4 hours ago, Adil said:

    Seconded. I don't remember his henka against Terunofuji; as ryafuji pointed out, it was Kisenosato against whom he henkaed in the deciding match for his first yokozuna yusho. However, the henka didn't lead to a direct victory in that match. He executed a beautiful move at the tawara to win. I do remember flying into a rage when he did his two henkas against Kisenosato (there was a matta) because I felt (as I still feel) that coupled with his henka against Myogiryu in that basho (which did lead to a direct victory), it did something in my eyes to take the joy out of the occasion. At least I can enjoy this one!


    Looks like I just wrote the wrong name down. But not only did he henka once, he did it again when they had to re-do the tachi-ai:



  11. So Kakuryu wins his second title - I don't count his last one due to the henka on an injured Terunofuji.

    I didn't think he did anything great but he was consistent enough and the rest of the field just wasn't. Hak's having injury issues. There's no real excuses for Harumafuji, Kise would find a way to lose a 14-0 basho going into the last day. Terunofuji was injured and Kotoshogiku is back to his old self. And uh Goeido just kind of showed he isn't Yokozuna material yet. We'll hopefully see a healthy Henkaho and Terunofuji next time around and see what happens.

    • Like 1

  12. 14 minutes ago, Jojo said:

    He's 1.94m, that's taller than Hakuho, Terunofuji, Okinoumi, Aoiyama, Tochinoshin, Kagayaki, Ichinojo... I think only Kaisei is taller than him, in Makuuchi... He's big!! Not the heaviest but big for sure!

    He's tall but honestly makes no use of his height and he really does need to gain weight.

  13. Thoughts on today:

    - You could really see how undersized Ishiura is when paired against Ikioi today. In the long run I think he's going to struggle like a lot of people of similar size do.

    - Did not see the Kisenosato win coming at all. The Chokeozuna has snuck back in there. As always...don't get your hopes up. He'll find a way. He should in theory have Kotoshogiku and Terunofuji on Days 14 and 15 and since both have had their fate this tournament decided already, I would think he could beat both.

    - Something's up with Hakuho. He isn't going for the belt at all and even a one legged Terunofuji was sizing him up and beat him today. The thing is though, it seems like I'm saying "there's something up with Hakuho" a lot more frequently this year than "no one's beating Hakuho". Whatever he has started sometime in July when he went 10-5 and is still bugging him. This is legitimately his worst year loss wise since 2012.


    • Like 1

  14. 48 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

    I personally love how Hakuho drops two matches on a basho returning from injury (one of them against a rikishi with the second most winningest record versus Hakuho, no less) and the forum consensus quickly shifts to "something's wrong!" or "he's not quite ready for intai yet!" as if being in the yusho race simply isn't considered good enough sumo from himB-)

    That's the trouble with having a reputation as a sumo god. You gotta live up to those standards. Anything less than 14-1 Yusho is a bad basho for Hakuho to me.

    Hakuho has never been your ordinary yokozuna and we don't treat him as such. You wanna be treated like Kakuryu where some of us think he should still be Ozeki or Kisenosato the choke artist of all choke artists? Then you won't have to worry about it.

    • Like 2

  15. 4 minutes ago, Sakura said:

    I really hope that they find a way to get Ishiura up to face the top guys, but it's looking slim. The top 4 will be unavailable (unless they stop two of the top for from meeting). Kisenesato still has Terunofuji, Kotoshogiku and Okinoumi. I can see them pulling Okinoumi and inserting Ishiura as an option. Otherwise, Tamawashi is the bast bet.

    Kise fought all 3 Yokozunae and only has to fight 2 more Ozeki, so Kise vs Ishiura is possible.

    Giku fought all 3 Yok's and all but 1 Ozeki, so Giku vs Ishiura is also possible.

    And believe me, Ishiura is getting one or those two by Friday if he keeps winning.

  16. Some thoughts:

    - The right call was made on the Ikioi match.

    - Hakuho's not going for the belt at all lately which I think is hurting him. He's just going for slaps and shoulders. This is what he did before in past tournaments when he looked injured.

    - If you needed a clear picture of Terunofuji being healthy or not, today was pretty good. You can see him hobbling off of one leg. I think he can probably pay off Koto to lose for him.

    - Kakuryu looked like he slipped to lose today and he just couldn't get a decent grip at all. Kise showed some really good defense of his belt by trapping Kak's arms and stopping any belt grabbing. With that being said, please don't start the "Kise can win" stuff.

    - Harumafuji has to be the favorite going forward. He has done really good sumo and is messing up other wrestlers games by going after their legs. It's just a guess and all, but I think a 14-1 is the likely result.

    - Ishiura's "Harumafuji Special" was so fast and strong today. I do get concerned though that people are going to figure him out by next tournament. We see this happen every tournament so I hate to even promote the idea that he could win this thing but...he really could win this thing. He will likely have to fight Kotoshogiku or Kisenosato if he can make it to 12-1. If he makes it to 12-1, he legitimately has a chance.

    • Like 4

  17. My thoughts:

    - Here's what happened in Hakuho/Kise. Hak put his right shoulder in, which he usually does. However, Kise saw it coming and got his arm behind Hak's right elbow. This made him able to push off Hak and completely screw his gameplan. Hak was done after as he couldn't get a belt grip and honestly didn't even try to, leading to the loss. Kise's great footwork got him the match here.

    - Time to see how good Kakuryu is right now. 10-0's good but his best opponent so far was an injured Terunofuji. Not the best way to determine how good someone is doing. I'd be really surprised if he can make it out of the Hakuho/Kise/Harumafuji grinder without a loss.

    - Takayasu's Ozeki run is donezo. He looked pretty slow and uninspiring all basho.

    - Was surprised to see Ishiura school Sokokourai, as I think Soko is a really underrated wrestler.