krindel

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Posts posted by krindel


  1. There are only 5 Yokozuna remaining in the NSK after Kokonoe (Hakkaku, Shibatayama, Isegahama, Takanohana and Musashigawa) and there's a VERY good chance that there won't be any new ex-Yokozuna joining the Kyokai in the immediate future (given that all current ones are foreigners). My impression is that the choice of using the two highest ranked active Yokozuna (who btw have no affiliation whatsoever with Kokonoe) is meant to change the format of future such ceremonies to use active rikishi.

    Of course, that's just my conjecture, i could always be dead wrong. I guess we'll have to wait until 2020 and see what happens when its ex-Asahifuji's turn :-)

    I predict that Isegahama will pick ex-Harumafuji & Terunofuji.

    I am not sure which of the two implied predictions here is the riskier one, the one where Terunofuji makes it to Yokozuna or the one where Harumafuji stays with the Kyokai when he retires ;)

    • Like 1

  2. That was the first time that two active Yokozuna were used as attendants. On most previous occasions oyakata who were former Yokozuna were used.

    Is this to be considered a special honor to him, or rather a sign of Kokonoe's precarious status among his peers?

    I can't imagine that Hakkaku for example would refuse to participate if asked. I suspect that the choice has more to do with the fact that after Taiho (who was attended by Kitanoumi and Kokonoe) and Kitanoumi (who was attended by Kokonoe and Takanohana), there is a sharp decline in the "weight" of the remaining ex-Yokozuna.

    There are only 5 Yokozuna remaining in the NSK after Kokonoe (Hakkaku, Shibatayama, Isegahama, Takanohana and Musashigawa) and there's a VERY good chance that there won't be any new ex-Yokozuna joining the Kyokai in the immediate future (given that all current ones are foreigners). My impression is that the choice of using the two highest ranked active Yokozuna (who btw have no affiliation whatsoever with Kokonoe) is meant to change the format of future such ceremonies to use active rikishi.

    Of course, that's just my conjecture, i could always be dead wrong. I guess we'll have to wait until 2020 and see what happens when its ex-Asahifuji's turn :-)

    • Like 2

  3. A thought just hit me… what happens if there are no 2 yokozuna available? Or even 1, for that matter? (I’m talking about the tachimochi and tsuyuharai.)

    That was the first time that two active Yokozuna were used as attendants. On most previous occasions oyakata who were former Yokozuna were used.

    AFAIK active rikishi have only been preferred three times, once by Mienoumi who used the two active former Ozeki from his own heya as attendants (however he did an "unofficial" early kanreki dohyo-iri) and twice a long time ago, in two cases when there was one active Yokozuna and one oyakata attending.

    • Like 1

  4. First off, Congrats to OZEKI Terunofuji!! My 2nd favorite sumotori.

    My question: With a victory over Hakuho, will this give credence to putting Ichinojo in the Sekiwake East slot? In March, Tochiozan had the better score, hence his posting as Komusubi East. This time around, the records were even, and looking at individual matches, 6 out of 7 losses from Ichinojo were Sanyaku Ranked, the exception being M1W Tochinoshin. Tochiozan, on the other hand, had only 4 losses from Sanyaku Ranks, and only one victory against an Ozeki, Goeido. I'm not historically versed in Banzuke making, but what do you all think?

    BTW: I'm doing my own "GTB" for the first time, wow. It seemed complicated, then seemed easy, then got complicated again!!!!!

    Aloha!

    To put it another way, if two rikishi have the same result for a basho, the one who was ranked higher will be ranked higher in the next basho as well.

    Well, basically yes... but please check what happened at the Sekiwake ranks on the Nagoya 2014 banzuke (sorry, can't hyperlink when using smartphone)

    So remember: with the NSK it is NSN*

    *= Never Say Never ;-)

    Of course I remember that one, but refusing to flip two Sekiwake when the West one has a better result is not the same as flipping two rikishi with the same result... I don't think they'd do that even for Goeido ;-)


  5. Looking for precedents regarding Terunofuji's promotion, I stumbled upon this guy:

    http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=3743

    Any idea why he wasn't promoted to Ozeki right after his yusho?

    Wow... That was a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away. I am not sure if its even possible to make a direct comparison of the promotion systems back then. If you notice, he didn't even get promoted to Sekiwake, despite one of the incumbent Sekiwake scoring a 0-0-11 (not sure if there was some sort of rank protection back then?)


  6. First off, Congrats to OZEKI Terunofuji!! My 2nd favorite sumotori.

    My question: With a victory over Hakuho, will this give credence to putting Ichinojo in the Sekiwake East slot? In March, Tochiozan had the better score, hence his posting as Komusubi East. This time around, the records were even, and looking at individual matches, 6 out of 7 losses from Ichinojo were Sanyaku Ranked, the exception being M1W Tochinoshin. Tochiozan, on the other hand, had only 4 losses from Sanyaku Ranks, and only one victory against an Ozeki, Goeido. I'm not historically versed in Banzuke making, but what do you all think?

    BTW: I'm doing my own "GTB" for the first time, wow. It seemed complicated, then seemed easy, then got complicated again!!!!!

    Aloha!

    To put it another way, if two rikishi have the same result for a basho, the one who was ranked higher will be ranked higher in the next basho as well.


  7. Remaining at Sekiwake is even rarer (5 times). I happened recently but then there was shortage in candidates. Myogiryu for Komusubi next time is a safe bet.

    For what little its worth, your query doesn't show Goeido's first lucky break in 2012, when he stayed at Sekiwake with a 7-7-1. But since there is such an abundance of Sanyaku candidates this time around, I agree that that situation has little bearing here.


  8. Hanakaze never missed a bout... he never got injured... amazing

    Not sure what you mean? According to the database he missed a whole tournament early on and withdrew from one in 1988 and another in 2008.


  9. People see "33 in 3" and seem to assume that it means three equally important basho, but that's simply not always the case. It can be true (they're not going to deny somebody who goes 11-11-11), but it's long-standing practice to assign less weight to the first basho than the other two.

    I am very happy to see any new guy taking the Yusho, renewal can only be good for sumo. My concern though has nothing to do with 24 in 2 or 33 in 3 or whatever. My concern has to do with the fact that Terunofuji has a total of two double digit basho in his very short Makuuchi career. Kudos to him for all he has accomplished, and I'll be happy to see him at Ozeki, but I still think there's a danger of the promotion proving premature. Still, like I said before, in a field of yusho-less Ozeki, a Yusho is extremely hard to ignore, so they felt they had no choice.

    Anyway, barring major surprises, the deed is done, heartfelt congrats to the youngster, and I certainly hope Terunofuji proves to be a strong Ozeki and all my speculative concern proves completely unfounded.

    • Like 2

  10. I really don't like the idea that they might promote Terunofuji based on how well Hakuho has (not) done. Is Terunofuji to be considered a better rikishi simply because Hakuho lost more matches this tournament than usual? Considering that the Isegahama joi schedule is much easier than any other heya's, along with the way he was beaten by Tokushoryu and Sadanoumi, I find it hard to believe that Terunofuji would be considered for promotion at all at this point. Why can't they just wait to see if he can manage 10 in Nagoya, when there would be absolutely no doubt that he would deserve it?

    I don't have much faith in Aoiyama, but would greatly prefer him winning today it if it stops what I feel is a hasty promotion.

    I agree completely that it seems to me too early to promote Terunofuji (lets not forget he only has two sanyaku basho and was good but not stunningly impressive before that). Has there ever been an Ozeki who only spent two basho in the named ranks? Not to mention that an 8-7 from M2 is not exactly a worthy start to an Ozeki run.

    I also agree that it makes even less sense to say "We'll promote him if he wins and Hakuho loses, but not if he wins and then goes through Hakuho as well".

    Hanging the promotion on the Yusho though makes absolute sense. The problem with the constantly decreasing standards for Ozeki-hood lately is that if he were to get a Yusho, he'll be the first Ozeki candidate with one in ages (and of course, none of the current Ozeki have one either). So he'll have 33 wins in the jo'i in 3 basho, and a Yusho. I can see how based on the criteria of the last few Ozeki promotions they might feel obligated to promote him.

    Terunofuji definitely looks like the real deal, and he's been able to capitalize superbly on his Isegahama schedule and the many absences in the jo'i the last couple of basho. I don't find anything wrong with that, you fight the fights that are in front of you and are judged by those. I still find that given his inexperience, it would be premature to promote him with 33 wins starting from M2, Yusho or no Yusho. Of course, that's just me, and I am sure Kitanoumi has no intention of asking me at all. And the comment Kintamayama mentioned sets some very clear-cut conditions, so I guess their mind is made up on this.

    Anyway, I for one, feel that the most probable scenario remains that he'll end up losing in a playoff with Hakuho, and the NSK will make him get 9 wins next basho to promote him.


  11. Is Chiyootori completely safe? Goeido dropped from there with a 0 wins effort in 2010. I'm curious, especially if some maegashira ranks disappear.

    Have no idea about Chiyootori's chances, but Goeido was suspended in 2010, not injured. I am sure that the "punishment factor" played a little part in his case.


  12. And nothing wrong with Goeido's henka....exactly how much bigger is Kaisei than him? In most other sports they wouldn't even be allowed to compete against each other.

    This is sumo however. The standard by which people are judged is not size, but rank. Goeido is the "bigger" one, bigger by 25 ranks. In a normal situation they indeed wouldn't be allowed to compete against each other, since someone of Kaisei's rank would need to "earn" the right to fight someone of Goeido's rank, not the other way around...

    Having said that, I need to clarify that I don't personally find anything reprehensible about that sort of henka.


  13. Now all the semi-realistic hope left (barring an Ikioi or Kaisei miracle) is to hope that Kise or Harumafuji will topple Hakuho even without a real motive, and that Terunofuji will manage to win two (I assume he'll be facing the Sakaigawa duo?) to force a playoff. Even then, he'll have to beat Hakuho for the second time in two tournaments, which goes without saying is less than easy.

    Overall, I have to admit that its shaping up to be a disappointment to watch the Yusho race dwindle (again) to a very clear Hakuho advantage with two days to spare, even when he did everything he could to mess things up right from the start.

    • Like 2

  14. Another tidbit:

    Hakuho has never won a Yusho that includes a fusen win. Before this basho he has had four fusen wins in Makuuchi, and the results were:

    - a playoff loss against Asashoryu

    - a Jun-yusho behind Tochiazuma (yes, in THAT tournament)

    - a 9-6 from Komusubi

    - an 8-7 from M3

    In fact, as I think it was mentioned long ago in a thread, a Yusho including a fusen win is far from common, and from what I found only 23 Yusho winners have had one, the last one being Asashoryu in Nagoya 2007. Of course its not as rare as a Yusho containing a fusen LOSS, which has only happened twice...

    • Like 3

  15. I just noticed that Hakuho has notched up 43 wins against Kotoshogiku. Wow. That must be an all time record? (anyone checked this one?) It's 7+ years of straight ass-whooping.

    If your question was if it is a record for someone in Makuuchi to have lost 43 times to someone else, then the answer seems to be "Yes".

    Query

    Edit: The overall 43-4 seems to also be the biggest win differential (39) ever.


  16. Endo managed those 4 wins after all, didn't he? I have to admit to being very surprised that he did. Even if some people went easy on him (at least in the sense of not going for the kill taking advantage on his weak knee), its still impressive.

    Just hope he didn't do even more damage to it, of course. Cause if he did, 4 wins are not worth the price.

    • Like 2

  17. I'll be the first to admit I know very little about bout scheduling. Still, I'd really appreciate it if someone could explain to me why the 7-2 Takayasu and the 8-1 yusho leader Kaisei were paired with Kyokushuho + Amuru and Amuru + Takanoiwa respectively. In both cases, it was the lowest ranked opponents they faced so far. I know they tend to give high flying maegashira a chance at KK before throwing them to the wolves, but couldn't they just make them earn their KK against someone ranked a bit higher than them, instead of a lot lower?

    Tell me, what's wrong with Takayasu (7-1) vs. Kyokushuho (7-1) and Takayasu (7-2) vs. Amuru (7-2)? Kaisei(7-1) vs. Amuru (6-2) also is perfectly acceptable at the time of scheduling.

    I give you Kaisei-Takanoiwa, that one is a bit puzzling as Kaisei already was kachi-koshi and Takanoiwa only 5-4 at the time of scheduling. He could have faced Gagamaru (but just 3-6) or Aoiyama (scheduled against Kotoshogiku, probably they didn't want to break the sanyaku scheduling, and he faces Aoiyama tomorrow anyway). In fact, no less than four of Kaisei's past opponents already are kachi-koshi as well which is everybody below Sekiwake except same-heya Kyokushuho. So it's just not easy I guess.

    Edit: I guess you aren't realizing that torikumi are set up and published *before* the bouts of the day. It's just unfair from you to characterize Kaisei as "8-1 yusho leader" as he was 7-1.

    First of all, I was not attacking the torikumi makers, I was asking for an explanation on a subject I know little about, so thank you for the clarification. I guess it does make sense in some way. I know its a heck of a lot harder than it seems to make proper torikumi decisions, and I do appreciate an insight to their thought process.

    Incidentally I do realize that the torikumi are set up before the bouts of the day, the 7-2 and 8-1 scores I was mentioning referred to the choice of their last oponent. So Kaisei was 8-1 (and co-yusho leader) when he was paired with Takanoiwa, and Takayasu who was 7-2 when paired with Amuru (although I admit that I hadn't noticed Amuru was also 7-2 at the time).

    I guess what I am trying to convey is that in my (admittedly unpracticed) eye Kaisei has been allowed to get to double digit wins with what seems like a relatively light schedule. Not to mention that while Takayasu is going all the way up to a desperate Ozeki for tomorrow, Kaisei is going against Aoiyama. But, as you say, I am sure there are good reasons behind all that.