Jaak

And now 1:3.

How far shall a M1 fall with 2 consecutive basho of zero wins? Could not find recent precedents....

Since you said that he will probably win tomorrow. (Showing respect...) He does have a tough match though... (Nodding yes...) 0-3 now. I'm blaming Takanohana - a couple of days before the basho he was quoted with a prediction that Kaio would break Chiyonofuji's record straight away with back-to-back wins.... Is the manner in which Kaio suffered these three losses consistent with his worry about walking the gravel path to Ise Shrine in sandals?

In which class of service do the rikishi travel on Shinkansen?

With 18 wins over two basho, less of an aspirant than Kotoshogiku with 21 or Kakuryu with 20. Although surprises can happen. How did Kitanofuji become ozeki with 8-10-10? Never mind. Obviously because 2 ozeki spots must be filled, and Kitabayama

What exactly is the name of the kimarite whereby losing mawashi means losing the match?

Takanoyama

Among the makushita tsukedashi entrants, Ms10TD (by winning several championships) seems to have been used once - Kiyoseumi Takayuki, 5:2, 5 basho in makushita, 7 straight kachikoshi as far as M13. Out of the last Ms15TD... Meigetsuin started 0:3:4, Miyamoto 5:2, Mori 2:5, Shimoda 7:0Y, 2:5, Hakiai 4:3, Nakano 3:4... with 3 kachikoshi out of 6, roughly appropriate level. Among the last Ms60TD... Tsushima 4:3, Shimotori 5:2, Kototamiya 5:2, Kato 6:1, Yamauchi 5:2... and Takeuchi started with 4! CONSECUTIVE! YUSHOS! There have been 3 Ms60TD who achieved a pair of consecutive zensho-yushos on hatsu dohyo. These were Wajima, Oso (turned into Musoyama) and Takeuchi (turned into Miyabiyama). But while Wajima had 10:5 on juryo debut and Musoyama had 9:6, Miyabiyama started 12:3Y, 14:1Y, followed by 9:6 at M7. As for the people who started the hard way from mae-zumo, 3 people have achieved 3 consecutive zensho-yushos on hatsu dohyo. Itai, Kototenta and Tokitenku. No one besides Miyabiyama seems to have achieved 4 consecutive yushos of any kind on hatsu dohyo.

When the court forces Kyokai to take Kotomitsuki back as Hidenoyama oyakata, is Kyokai likely to be also forced to take back Takatoriki as Otake oyakata?

I noted that important questions seemed to have been unaddressed when the thread moved on along one branch. So, any comments as to the preparations for Kaio

You mean 2050s? The youngest current kabu owner (Kiyomigata, since January this year) is Tochiozan, due for retirement 9th of March, 2052. The Araiso owner (since January 2010) also retires 3rd of July, 2051 (Kisenosato). Nicely ask your shisho if he will let you branch out later, if the answer is yes make sure your financial supporters will be willing to contribute beyond your active career, start recruiting deshi, then secure a building after you've retired. I don't think there's much more to it. However, we haven't actually seen a new heya created since the requirements for founding one were toughened five years ago (minimum rank yokozuna, ozeki, 25+ sanyaku basho or 60+ makuuchi basho), and with the uncertain reform situation, it's not like there's much incentive to go ahead nowadays. The question might be moot soon. The last heya founded was Onoe, August 2006. The active kabu owners include a bunch of people who qualify as founders under the toughened rules. Ozeki Kaio. Tochinonada (80 makuuchi basho), Wakanosato (73 makuuchi basho), Aminishiki (63 makuuchi basho). Takamisakari, with 57 makuuchi basho, could collect 60 if he were not to drop into juryo this year. Kaio is from Tomozuna heya. The Tomozuna shisho is due for retirement in June 2017. Is Kaio expected to be an active sekitori (and maintain ozeki rank) till Natsu-basho 2017? Take over some other heya? Or preparing to found his own, Asakayama heya?

Depends on what one considers the extent of coaching. An underappreciated part of the job is the need to recruit new rikishi, and that generally falls on the shisho, both because he has the biggest name value and because it's ultimately his responsibility to decide who gets to join the heya. One reason it's felt that 50 heya are too many is that this has left many stables as one-man operations, and doing coaching, recruiting, financial outreach and Kyokai work is often just too much for one person, so it would be more efficient to have at least two or three oyakata per stable. Does in mean that lone shishos should not do Kyokai work, and only oyakata from stables with several should do it? Yes, and the number of full kabu has stood at 105 since the 1927 merger of Tokyo and Osaka sumo, when Tokyo had 88 kabu and Osaka had 17. How did these numbers come to be, before 1927? However, there used to be jun-oyakata posts. At present, these are only available for yokozunas for 5 years and ozekis for 3 years, and have no takers (Asashoryu is not wanted as oyakata, and Chiyotaikai and Dejima have real kabu). If the problems are shortage of full time coaches and the fact that their age ranges up to 64, then how about hiring a bunch of 30-something ex-sekitori as jun-oyakata? Since their alternatives to taking up such an offer would be demotion to makushita and below and collecting injuries, it does not seem they would be all that expensive to hire. When they prove to be good coaches, they can be upgraded to available kabu borrower slots.... That depends on how the shisho runs his stable, I imagine. But I don't think taking in an oyakata who was previously affiliated to a different heya (or ran his own) is going to upset the operations of a well-run stable. Worst case the affiliation becomes purely for the books and the new oyakata doesn't actually show up in the keikoba much if the shisho doesn't want him around. It's not comparable to gyoji or yobidashi who are truly part of the communal living experience of a heya. So, an oyakata affiliated for the books is not a problem for the shisho, but rather for Kyokai, because it is Kyokai and not shisho who is paying for affiliated oyakata? And a shisho has no reason to refuse an oyakata who wants to join the heya? I see that there are actually fewer gyoji than heyas. What do gyoji do in heyas, and how can a heya operate without any? Also, as for need to have been good at what they taught: I see that XIII Irumagawa-oyakata , from 1925-1951, was one Kimura Soshiro - a gyoji. He worked at Kasugano stable as associated oyakata. There have been more. Do oyakata who are gyoji rather than rikishi also engage in coaching?

I feel there's a fundamental misunderstanding behind many of your questions. "Oyakata" isn't a post or a job in the Kyokai, it's the condition of being a shareholder of sorts in the organization, by virtue of holding one of the 105 (+ however many non-permanent) kabu. That they're expected to work a variety of jobs on behalf of the organization is closely linked to it, but it's not the same thing. The most similar business model might be that of a cooperative. As such it's relatively easy for an oyakata to be removed from his (administrative) job if circumstances require it, and especially if the reason is bad health it's not unusual to see an oyakata transferred into a position with a lower work load, likely with his agreement. Effectively, sumo world with about 700 or so rikishis does not actually need 107 coaches: not only do the 107 oyakata include the Kyokai administrators but there is also possibility to have some oyakata on sinecure/sleeping partner position and necessary coaching still gets done, and done well. Right? So, it is not particularly important for a shisho who are affiliated oyakata to the heya?

Assuming the shisho is older than the affiliate, a particularly strong relationship could see a toshiyori swap, with the younger affiliate taking on the 'senior' toshiyori and heya. The shisho, close to or at retirement age, would then take ownership of the 'junior' toshiyori. The most recent example I can think of is when Tokitsukaze-beya changed hands in 2002, with the old shisho switching to the 'junior' Nishikijima toshiyori and ex-Futatsuryu switching to the senior toshiyori and taking over the heya. Little did anyone know then that he would only have five years as shisho... So effectively the only available position for shisho to give is picking his own successor and resigning as shisho ahead of retiring from oyakata work. I understand that the promotions from toshiyori to shunin and iin are at the grant of Kyokai, regardless of the opinion of the shisho (or status as such), right? Generally, a heya folds when the shisho is approaching retirement age and has no successor to take over, or when the number of rikishi is so few that it is probably better for all concerned for them to merge into another heya. Why would a shisho run his own stable into the ground just to get an affiliate job in another heya? I proposed reasons - lack of success due to incompetence, poor motivation or poor health. What would motivate a shisho to take an affiliate oyakata who is expected to be a problem? If he's so ill that he can't work, it would probably make sense for him to sell his toshiyori anyway and use the money to pay his medical bills, or whatever. In other words, liquidate the kabu investment, spend (part of) the principal and invest the rest in some other business. But if a kabu is a profitable investment regardless of the success in toshiyori work, what is the incentive to liquidate the kabu rather than spend savings invested elsewhere and keep hold of the kabu and profits from it?

Only if he's in charge of his own heya. Having a stable with many rikishi brings in a larger amount of training subsidies from the Kyokai (although a lot of that goes back into running the stable if you have that many rikishi, I imagine), and having many successful rikishi (preferably at least maegashira) tends to bring in more private supporters. Mere associated oyakata might profit indirectly from working in a successful stable, but I doubt it's a major addition to their regular salary. Is there any way for the heya owner to reward associated oyakata for doing good work? Kitanofuji quit at 55, but that was for political reasons. Some others have left the Kyokai in their 40s, but in all cases I can remember the likely backstory was that they were the kabu owner de jure, but not de facto - it was secretly still owned by their predecessor or by a more powerful oyakata in their heya/ichimon, and something caused that person to decide on a transfer to another (retiring) rikishi or borrowing oyakata. Ex-Wakatoba and Ex-Wakanoyama recently left under circumstances that were a bit more nebulous, but I wouldn't be surprised if kabu considerations were at play there, too, and in any case they were oyakata for only a few years. Other than that...some oyakata have folded their stables due to lack of success, lack of motivation or ill health, but IIRC none of them quit their oyakata career at the same time. There's just no reason to, under the current system. Is a legitimate kabu owner thereby authomatically entitled to work as associated oyakata in a specific stable regardless of the wishes of the stable owner? What is the motivation, on the part of a stable owner, to take an associate oyakata who has run his own stable into ground due to lack of motivation and folded it? Are there any kabu owning oyakata who have difficulties finding a stable willing to take them as associated oyakata? When an oyakata is known not to work as oyakata because of health related prolonged inability or other reasons (lack of motivation, incompetence), can he be removed from the post so as to be able to refill it? Nicely ask your shisho if he will let you branch out later, if the answer is yes make sure your financial supporters will be willing to contribute beyond your active career, start recruiting deshi, then secure a building after you've retired. I don't think there's much more to it. However, we haven't actually seen a new heya created since the requirements for founding one were toughened five years ago (minimum rank yokozuna, ozeki, 25+ sanyaku basho or 60+ makuuchi basho), and with the uncertain reform situation, it's not like there's much incentive to go ahead nowadays. The question might be moot soon. Indeed. Out of the three last ozeki to intai after tightening of heya founding requirements (Tochiazuma, Dejima, Chiyotaikai) all have become oyakata, and only Tochiazuma has become heya master by inheriting his father

That's a bit of a false connection between these two items. As things stand right now, if you have the money to buy a kabu you don't have to be good at teaching as the central office's only recourse against useless oyakata is to minimize their role within the Kyokai's power structure - and if the proposed reforms go through as suggested, money will no longer matter, so no investment needed. The only way that an oyakata's skills* come into play right now is when somebody's sitting on a borrowed share and the powers-that-be have to decide if he's worth pulling strings for when he's in need of a kabu change. , Yes, but kabu is an expensive investment. Does the income of a kabu owner depend significantly on the success of his work as a coach? Is an oyakata liable to find his expensive kabu to be unprofitable because he is not good enough at coaching? Compulsory retirement for oyakata is at 65, and they normally start in their thirties. How common is it for existing kabu owners and active oyakatas to sell their kabu long before they have to, in their forties or fifties, because they feel they are not good at coaching? And sekitori who do decide they would be good coaches are allowed to buy kabu while active rikishis - they just have to lend it until intai. The value of the fixed investments of sumo consists of two parts, right? The common facilities of Kyokai, owned in 105 kabu. Plus the investments (house etc.) of each heya, which are owned by heya master over and above the kabu he also is required to own. Right? The kabu owners, other than oyakata, consist of two groups of people who are allowed 3 years to find a buyer. Namely oyakata aged 65 to 67, and heirs of oyakata deceased in last 3 years. Plus third group being the active rikishi who have bought kabu. How long do retired oyakata and their heirs have to find buyer for the heya? And how do active rikishi prepare their heyas, if they feel they can afford a heya in addition to kabu?

Starting from the upper end, first five are known Hakuho Y yusho 13:2 Baruto I-O1, 10:5 Harumafuji L-O1 10:5 Kaio I-O2 9:6 Kotooshu kadoban L-O2 3:8:4 But then it gets problematic. Because E-K1 had 12:3! Wakanosato, mere 11:4 and mere W-K1 caused a haridashi in March 2003, and occupied it. How many rows shall sekiwake have in Nagoya, and who shall occupy them?

Then do we have any actual quotes as to which guidelines they shall concede this time, which ones they would keep?

That part is quote. Quote or speculation? Tsurugidake, J14W, is 6:9. Needs demotion, no such post in Nagoya, and that means makushita. Say "more than 13" In the next 10 ranks, 11 to 20, there are 9 kachikoshis, starting with E-Ms12 Kyokushuho, but also including 4 with 5:2 record: E-Ms16 Oniarashi E-Ms17 Chiyoarashi W-Ms18 Kitazono W-Ms20 Satoyama So how about Oniarashi?

Specifically, since Wakanosato, 2003.03, not counting Tochiazuma while demoted from ozeki Takamisakari must be demoted (7:8, only possibility being M15e>M15w). In which case Tochinonada (M14w, 6-9) can either stay above Takamisakari (M15e) or go to juryo. But 7th juryo promotee would be hard to find: first 6 would include Masunoyama (J9e, 9:6) and Daido (J4e, 8:7) but 7th would be Tamaasuka (J12w, 8:7). So maybe Tochinonada can stay above Takamisakari.

Yes he can. In normal days, a 7-8 from 16 east could get you demoted to 17 east. These are not normal days Precisely. There shannot be 17 east, nor 16 west.

Depending on Kimurayama and Miyabiyama, there may be 7 open slots to find promotees from juryo. Miyabiyama will stay even with a 7-8, I'm pretty sure. He cannot be demoted within makuuchi.

Depending on Kimurayama and Miyabiyama, there may be 7 open slots to find promotees from juryo.

Checking the last 38 occasions when an ozeki fought at least some bouts, but finished with fewer than 6 wins, I see that fighting to the end were Chiyotaikai 2008.05 (5:10), Tochiazuma 2007.01 (5:10), Dejima 2001.05 (5:10). And also Chiyotaikai 2009.03. 4 out of 38 is a bit more than 1 out of 30, but indeed rare. Kotomitsuki, 2009.01 ended 2:10:3.

Fusensho rules state that fusensho winner has to show up and raise his leg on the dohyo. How often has it happened that two wrestlers are both seriously injured in separate matches so when they are scheduled to meet, neither of them is able to reach the dohyo? And when it happens, what are the effects on scores? A loss for both? Then again, raising a leg on dohyo involves just feet and is easier than serious wrestling. Say, a wrestler with both his arms in slings but mostly functional below the waist would not be capable of serious wrestling against a healthy opponent. But when the scheduled opponent happens to be seriously injured and kyujo, will any rikishi show up purely to perform leg raising to claim the fusensho win, and then give fusenpai to the next (healthy) opponent? Fusensho counts as win for score purposes - but does not give kinboshi. In case of fusensho, are kensho bestowed? Say that both opponents are moderately or seriously injured. What are the reactions when both opponents are trying to avoid getting more hurt and not obviously eager to gambarize? Asashoryu notoriously missed some training when going to Mongolia to recover from injuries, and then played ball in Mongolia. I believe there was a famous yokozuna in early 20th century who also played ball while injured. How common are fusenpai and kyujo where the seriousness of the underlying injury is doubted by some? Have there been any kyujo decisions where compensation from scheduled opponent is the more important consideration than injury, if any?