Asashosakari

Active Members
  • Content Count

    22,947
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    312

Everything posted by Asashosakari

  1. Asashosakari

    Promotion/Demotion and Yusho Talk, Nagoya 2022

    I think it is beyond the NSK's collective cognitive capabilities. I think they just deal with him separately and just keep him kadoban next basho, since it's easier to justify that way because of his ōzeki status. Yeah demoting someone with a kachi-koshi goes against such core principles that it would break their brains. Not sure why you guys are focusing on the Kyokai's supposed shortcomings here. The core problem with demoting any ozeki after an 8-7 would be with the public. Complete nonsense suggestion in any real-world setting.
  2. Asashosakari

    Rikishi Status - 2022 Nagoya Basho

    I wonder what they're going to do with fully absent rikishi from Covid-affected stables other than Tagonoura. Naruto's Yamane in jonokuchi in particular, who would normally have to drop off the banzuke - but who's to say that he wouldn't have shown up for at least one bout if he'd been allowed to? In theory that goes for every rikishi who was 0-0-x at the time his stable was removed from competition, but obviously late joins are exceedingly rare outside the lowest division.
  3. Asashosakari

    Trivia bits

    Since it's easier to check than makuuchi - the very first result of this turns out to have been 13 straight. (East wins though, not East losses.) Probably not the record, but in any case I don't think 9 is all that rare.
  4. Asashosakari

    Corona and sumo

    50 years ago, but it's been done before. Check the rikishi who went 3-0, 2-1 and 1-2 there in jonidan and compare to the 5-2, 4-3 and 3-4 records around them. (0-3 was treated like 1-6, however, not like 2-5.)
  5. Asashosakari

    Corona and sumo

    Why? There's nothing that says that e.g. somebody who exited involuntarily with a 5-2 record can't be treated based on that win-loss differential (which would be equivalent to a 9-6), and it would certainly be no less fair than throwing out the result altogether. The only sticking point would be the joi where the schedules are highly uneven if incomplete, everybody else will have had a relatively fair crack at however many bouts they got through. Whether they'll opt to open that can of worms is a different matter, assuming they finish the basho at all at this point.
  6. Asashosakari

    Rikishi Status - 2022 Nagoya Basho

    All five sekitori listed as kyujo now on the Kyokai site. Surely more heya-wide exits. As with the Musashigawa withdrawal, apparently only after the day's action had already started - the very first Sadogatake rikishi, Kotofuno in jonokuchi, actually still competed, then the fusenpai parade began.
  7. Asashosakari

    Farcical basho?

    The Taiho-Toda bout was officiated by Shikimori Inosuke 22, the later Kimura Shonosuke 26. The Kitanofuji-Takanohana bout was officiated by Kimura Shonosuke 25.
  8. Asashosakari

    Moderna Using Sumo in its Ads

    Yup, was mentioned at the time.
  9. Asashosakari

    Shimpan news and schedules

    I was recently asked about personnel movements in the shimpan department, and to my dismay I realized that I had completely lost track of changes that happened as little as a year ago. And researching that stuff on the forum turned out to be quite arduous, because so far shimpan updates have been posted in all manner of places (the kabu thread, rikishi status, basho talk, completely separate threads...), which makes them rather hard to find later if you don't already know what you're looking for. So, I'm hoping that this thread may become the future one-stop place for shimpan news. In addition, there will be each basho's shimpan shift lineups, so if you're ever watching a live broadcast and wondering who's sitting around the dohyo at that moment, this thread will hopefully allow you to find the answer. All data is sourced from the official torikumi sheets, such as this one from Nagoya 2017 Day 1.
  10. Asashosakari

    Trivia bits

    And the follow-up query to that would be this.
  11. Asashosakari

    Trivia bits

    Isn't it 13 for 1975.07? I suspect your query included the 6-2 and 5-3 juryo guys who fought in makuuchi on Day 8.
  12. Asashosakari

    Trivia bits

    Hmm, something like this?
  13. Asashosakari

    Nagoya 2022

    Athletes are still getting taken out of competitions due to Covid everywhere in the world, it's not like the Kyokai is doing anything special here. Bold prediction: Nobody's going to have to think about it, because the Kyokai will be telling us by one hour after the banzuke-making session at the latest.
  14. Asashosakari

    Trivia bits

    Yep! No other makuuchi playoff has ever featured a match between two rikishi who also met on Day 1. It's been rather more common in juryo - which was my actual starting point for checking it, because it occurred there again just recently. 5 cases of direct head-to-head playoffs, along with another 5 (somewhat less interesting) cases involving 3+ rikishi playoffs where the pairing repeated from Day 1 was just one of several playoff bouts. The "proper" cases: 1986.01, 2003.01, 2011.01, 2018.07, and 2022.05. The ones in extended playoffs: 1963.03 (3-way), 1972.09 (6-way), 1979.09 (4-way), 1989.05 (5-way), and 1989.09 (3-way).
  15. Asashosakari

    Sumo Reference Updates

    It's indeed not a bug or mistake, it's simply the DB/Doitsuyama choosing to remain consistent with its romanization in the face of Kyokai inconsistency. Futagoyama didn't add anything, it's the Kyokai website staff disambiguating shikona on the site that way whenever a long-vowel shikona is joined by (or joining) the corresponding short-vowel version on another rikishi, contrary to their normal romanization practices. There are plenty of other cases beyond Soga/Sōga in the DB, for instance Hokutoryū/Hokutōryū, Tokiryū/Tōkiryū (twice!), Toki/Tōki, or Ono/Ōno (many times). In the case of the recent Tokiryus, the short-vowel rikishi was the earlier one, so Tōkiryū was immediately added as Toukiryu. (Note that the Kyokai also didn't bother to change it to the normal spelling after the short-vowel Tokiryū retired.) It was the other way around for the two Hokutoryus, so the long-vowel one was originally just Hokutoryu for a couple of years, before it was changed with the appearance of the short-vowel one. Note that they didn't do it for the makuuchi regular long-vowel Tōki back in the day, but that was at a time when the website didn't even officially support romanized shikona (or any coverage really) below juryo, so the brief appearance of the short-vowel Toki in the lower divisions was probably not relevant enough to mess with the established name. Hokutōryū and Tōkiryū are also clear evidence that it's merely a matter of convenience (or maybe necessity) for the Kyokai website, because a properly changed romanization of their names would require the -ryuu as well, not just -tou-.
  16. Asashosakari

    2022 World Games

    Well, I didn't want to use the words "ugly duckling", but that's what I was getting at - it is what it is, and it will continue to be that. Here's the thing: I'm not one of the people who has ever felt the need to try to convince other people of how great sumo is, let alone one of the people who cares what those other people think of my interest in sumo in the first place. As such, I have no particular emotional investment in seeing sumo "get bigger". If it happens, great, if not, oh well. From my vantage point there's relatively little in Ozumo and almost nothing in amateur sumo that indicates any potential for them to get significantly bigger than they are right now. Yes, Ozumo has attracted a lot of additional international eyeballs over the last few years, but a) we've had such phases before and it remains to be seen if it's going to last - AFAICT Hakuho's retirement has already lost a significant share of those people again, just like Asashoryu's did a decade ago; and b) IMHO it's been largely a one-time boost due to the sudden increased availability of live or near-live viewing material on Youtube and Twitch, not the start of a sustained upward trend. Those aren't overshadowed by a qualitatively superior professional version though. To the point that such setups do exist elsewhere: American football is a multi-billion dollar sport, so of course even the crumbs left over by the NFL are big enough to sustain some alternative leagues. Another sport I follow quite closely is darts, which has the same misplaced comparisons going vis-a-vis golf among individual sports. There's a major difference between a sport where "the top end is thriving" means revenues in the 50 million £ range for the preeminent organization of the sport (not too different from the NSK), and another one where we're talking about 10 to 20 times that much. Consequently, while darts tournaments historically offer prize money at pretty much all levels, technically making them all professional, there's only a very thin (and struggling) slice of the sport outside the top org that can even be considered semi-pro as far as what it allows its participants to be, financially speaking. Meanwhile, the sport of golf is able to support, what, 30 or so professional tours? And compared to sumo, at least darts has the advantage of already having strong grass roots participation worldwide. It's even been growing over the last decade or so, driven by the professional side building up its media profile more and more, but that hasn't really translated into any sort of "the rising tide lifts all boats" effect for lower-level darts. At best, I can say that there's more lower-level darts now, but it's just more of the same financially unrewarding tournaments, not really anything that has actually grown to a new level.
  17. Asashosakari

    2022 World Games

    I disagree with pretty much all of that. The thing with Ozumo is not just that it has all the eyeball-attracting extracurriculars going on, but that it's also a full-fledged professional endeavour in which the audience can watch careers unfold, and thus has athletes to get emotionally invested in. What does amateur sumo have? An Egyptian winner who got his 15 minutes of fame, which is already much more than amateur sumotori usually get, but whose name 99% of the live audience almost certainly forgot by the next day and 100% of those contributing to the temporary flurry of interest on social media will have never known to begin with. I'm sorry, but that's nothing to build anything on, regardless of how the IFS is run. Heck, amateur sumo in Japan is operating under much better conditions than its international counterpart, but even that is making basically no waves beyond its immediate bubble of stakeholders, as far as I can tell. Even when somebody like Endo appears on the scene once in a blue moon, all the added interest is defined by "What will this mean for the pro game?" and no residual effects occur for amateur sumo itself. That's not a problem per se, but it becomes one when people mistake it to be something that is capable of or even deserves a higher profile than it has. Amasumo/international sumo is not some kind of swan whose beauty the world just hasn't discovered yet. As somebody who follows quite a lot of niche sports, I've seen all of these "the breakthrough is just around the corner, great times are coming" claims many, many times over. Most of them never came at all, a few were brief flash in the pan type developments. I expect the latter at best for what you're outlining.
  18. Asashosakari

    Trivia bits

    Quiz time: Among top division yusho playoffs, what is unique about the one between Chiyonofuji and Asashio in Natsu 1982?
  19. Asashosakari

    2022 World Games

    It's not only an identity crisis that amateur sumo has, it's a complete lack of identity. The competition in Birmingham may have sold out, but let's be honest here, the only reason that happens is because of people knowing professional sumo. Amateur sumo is the very tiny niche of a sport that - on the global scale - isn't very big to begin with. You could put a marketing genius in charge of the IFS and it wouldn't get much bigger than it is now. Stripped of its traditional trappings, sumo just isn't very appealing as a sport (as something more than just another one-time event to visit that people can cross off their bucket list or a 30-second social media thing that generates no significant income, anyway), in a world that's overcrowded not only with entertainment options for the audience, but also with sports options for those looking to participate in something.
  20. Asashosakari

    Seki-Toto/Quad/Oracle banzuke for Nagoya 2022

    Comments are now added, including a yokozuna being put on alert in both Toto and Oracle.
  21. Asashosakari

    Sumo Reference Updates

    Wait until you realize that the contents of column two are also different before and after the matches have taken place. (But no, neither version makes any particular sense.)
  22. Asashosakari

    2022 World Games

    Didn't happen, contrary to the posted schedule. The open weight finals received a repeat at an entirely different time, but that was it.
  23. Asashosakari

    Seki-Toto/Quad/Oracle banzuke for Nagoya 2022

    Seki-Oracle (play): Double makekoshi at Oracle's yokozuna rank in May. Pandaazuma's 6-9 was the first-ever finish below 7-8 for him in five years at the highest rank, but there are no immediate repercussions thanks to strong results in other recent tournaments. Norizo, however, shows three MK scores among his most recent five, meaning that Nagoya must be a kachikoshi to avoid the virtual haircutters. Conversely, the ozeki quartet performed strongly all around, featuring collectively in the top 10 of the overall standings. Oskahanada was runner-up in March and thus on tsunatori; his shared 4th-9th place result was not enough for promotion, especially in light of the very large 5-point gap to the winner. It's easily sufficient to extend his run to Nagoya, of course. He's joined by fellow ozeki Kaito, the May jun-yusho performer. Gansekiiwa, who finished in third place to shed his kadoban tag with ease, will also be kept in mind, although that would take an exceedingly strong Nagoya result to receive promotion consideration immediately. Furthermore, the quartet is now a quintet, courtesy of the player who managed to put incumbent ozeki into second, third and fourth place. That's of course the yusho winner, Golynohana. His recent results: 2021.09 Ke 8-7 (15th-17th place) 2021.11 K1e 9-6 (5th-6th place) 2022.01 S2w 11-4 Y (1st-2nd place) 2022.03 Se 9-6 (13th place) 2022.05 Se 12-3 Y (1st place) There wasn't quite enough oomph in the results accompanying the first yusho to trigger a promotion after either Hatsu or Haru basho, but this time it's an obvious call. Congrats! Sanyaku is back to 11 spots (up from 10) with that expansion to the ozeki cadre. Only two upper maegashira posted KK records, barely enough to fill out the lower sanyaku ranks without having to resort to lucky promotions. Former yokozuna Choshu-yuki is back to makuuchi just two tournaments after her restart. Norizo (Yw 7-8) Y Pandaazuma (Ye 6-9) Kaito (O1w 11-4) O1 Gansekiiwa (O2w 10-5) Oskahanada (O1e 9-6) O2 chishafuwaku (O2e 9-6) Golynohana (Se 12-3 Y) O3 - Andoreasu (Ke 9-6) S Frinkanohana (M1w 9-6) Kishikaisei (M2e 8-7) K Susanoo (Kw kosho) Balon (M8e 10-5) M1 Asashosakari (M6w 9-6) Wamahada (M9e 10-5) M2 Mariohana (M6e 8-7) Kitakachiyama (M3e 7-8) M3 GONZABUROW (M7e 8-7) Bill (Sw 4-11) M4 Flohru (M4w 7-8) DeRosa (M2w 6-9) M5 Oortael (M5w 7-8) Oshirokita (M3w 6-9) M6 Ganzohnesushi (M1e 4-11) Hakase (M10w 9-6) M7 Andrasoyama (M11e 9-6) Konosato (M4e 5-10) M8 Taka (M7w kosho) Torafujii (M10e 8-7) M9 Sakura (M14w 10-5) ScreechingOwl (M5e 4-11) M10 Unkonoyama (M8w 6-9) Takanorappa (J3w 12-3) M11 Saruyama (M16e 8-7) Choshu-yuki (J4e 11-4) M12 Ruziklao (J1w 9-6) Metzinowaka (J5e 10-5) M13 Profomisakari (M13w 7-8) Pitinosato (M9w 5-10) M14 Athenayama (M12w 6-9) Sukubidubidu (M15e 7-8) M15 Kotononami (M13e 6-9) joaoiyama (M15w 7-8) M16 - Shatsume (M11w 5-10) J1 Kobashi (M14e 6-9) Mmikasazuma (J1e 7-8) J2 Anjoboshi (J8e 9-6) Doreikishi (J9w 9-6) J3 Netsuzakura (M16w 5-10) Terarno (J2e 6-9) J4 Nantonoyama (J4w kosho) bariihachibenson (J11e 9-6) J5 Holleshoryu (J5w kosho) Seki Haruaki (J9e 8-7) J6 Kakushoyama (J6w kosho) Hidenotora (J6e 7-8) J7 Gusokaze (NR 9-6) Kurofuji (J11w 8-7) J8 Chartorenji (J7w 7-8) Kaiowaka (J2w 4-11) J9 Kasamatsuri (J3e 4-11) Tsuchinoninjin (M12e 0-0-15) J10 Kajiyanosho (J7e 5-10) Fujisan (J10e 4-11) J11 Gusoyama (NR 4-11) reeeen (J12e 3-12) J12 shimodahito (J8w 0-0-15)
  24. Asashosakari

    Seki-Toto/Quad/Oracle banzuke for Nagoya 2022

    Seki-Quadrumvirate (play): Low Quad scoring in May, low enough that a +1 scoring adjustment kicked in for the entire field - including the ozeki quartet, who got slightly lucky here that the rules call for the overall average to be used as the measuring stick, as makuuchi alone was above the adjustment mark of 6.5 wins. That meant 8-7 records for three of them, including kadoban Jakusotsu who is all clear again. That's not the case for Kobashi who scored his second straight 7-8 and is now at risk of demotion in Nagoya. We had three sekiwake in line to challenge for a promotion to ozeki, but each fell short in a different way (for now). Pandaazuma posted eight adjusted wins for a near-miss, and while it was enough to give him an extension to Nagoya he's in a worse position than he was two months ago. Golynohana opted for an absence from the May tournament, and thus comes into Nagoya with his chances unchanged. Bill's run, however, is entirely over after a performance that was still MK even with the +1. With three sekiwake holding rank and komusubi Oskahanada set to come up with double-digit wins, I was inclined to be harsh with fellow komusubi Ganzohnesushi and keep him at the fourth-highest rank despite 9 wins (which is usually a K->S promotion) to avoid overcrowding. Nevertheless, one other player forced his way into sekiwake, and I couldn't justify promoting him alone there, so Ganzohnesushi ultimately went up, too. That other player is Andrasoyama, courtesy of this run: 2022.01 M17e 11-4 D 2022.03 M6e 10-5 2022.05 M1e 10-5 Purely in W-L terms, that's an ozeki promotion quality run, so I felt compelled to create an opportunity for Andrasoyama to cap it off with another strong result this month. Makekoshi Bill ended up as a third beneficiary, taking the available west komusubi slot instead of getting dropped right down to maegashira. With sanyaku now expanded from 11 to the allowable maximum of 12, the next banzuke-making session will likely not be as generous. All in all, the makuuchi scores were rather whack in Natsu basho. Before the adjustment, 8 players had 8 or more wins, 12 players were at 6 or fewer, and 19 had posted 7-8 records. That meant a massive excess of KKs after the +1, but somehow the banzuke worked out fine anyway. As always, the shown banzuke features the adjusted scores, with the original results behind the spoiler tag. Kaito (O1e 8-7) O1 Norizo (O1w 8-7) Jakusotsu (O2w 8-7) O2 Kobashi (O2e 7-8) Oskahanada (K1w 10-5) S1 Pandaazuma (S1w 8-7) Ganzohnesushi (K1e 9-6) S2 Kishikaisei (S2w 8-7) Andrasoyama (M1e 10-5) S3 Golynohana (S2e kosho) Susanoo (M4e 11-4) K Bill (S1e 7-8) Konosato (M2e 8-7) M1 joaoiyama (M2w 8-7) Choshu-yuki (M5e 9-6) M2 Flohru (M5w 9-6) DeRosa (M8w 10-5) M3 Asapedroryu (M6e 8-7) Kitakachiyama (M6w 8-7) M4 Fujisan (M3e 7-8) Athenayama (M3w 7-8) M5 chishafuwaku (M1w 6-9) ScreechingOwl (K2e 5-10) M6 Ketsukai (M8e 8-7) Unkonoyama (M4w 7-8) M7 Oortael (M9w 8-7) Getayukata (M7w kosho) M8 Andoreasu (M10w 8-7) Nantonoyama (M11e 8-7) M9 Gansekiiwa (M11w 8-7) GONZABUROW (M12e 8-7) M10 Sakura (M12w 8-7) Kotononami (M13e 8-7) M11 Andonishiki (M15w 9-6) Netsuzakura (M14w 8-7) M12 Kashunowaka (M9e 6-9) Jejima (M7e 5-10) M13 Metzinowaka (M16e 8-7) Taka (M14e kosho) M14 Kuroimori (J3e 9-6) Hironoumi (M13w 7-8) M15 Asashosakari (M10e 5-10) Anjoboshi (J7w 10-5) J1 Chankoyama (M15e 6-9) Oyama (J9w 10-5) J2 Holleshoryu (J2w kosho) reeeen (J8e 8-7) J3 Kyodaitimu (Ms3w 12-3 Y) Kaiowaka (J3w 7-8) J4 Frinkanohana (J4w kosho) Ruziklao (J4e 7-8) J5 Achiyama (J2e 6-9) Balon (J5w 7-8) J6 Terarno (J1w 5-10) Kyoju (J6e 7-8) J7 Chibiyama (J12e 8-7) Gernobono (J1e 4-11) J8 Doreikishi (J14e 8-7) Takanorappa (J9e 7-8) J9 Chocshoporyu (J5e 5-10) Saruyama (J10e 7-8) J10 Hidenotora (J10w 6-9) Kajiyanosho (J8w 5-10) J11 Kintamayama (J6w 4-11) Rowitoro (J11e 6-9) J12 Sukubidubidu (J7e 4-11) Mariohana (J11w 6-9) J13 Profomisakari (J12w 6-9) Oshirokita (Ms1e 7-8) J14 Hakushin (J14w kosho) Neko (J13w 6-9) Ms1 bariihachibenson (Ms2e 7-8) Mmikasazuma (Ms4e 6-9) Ms2 Hakase (Ms2w 5-10) Kasamatsuri (J13e 3-12) Ms3 Hogashi (Ms1w 4-11) Unagiyutaka (Ms3e 4-11) Ms4 Furanohana (NR 5-10) Kazejihi (Ms5e kosho) Ms5 Gusoyama (NR 5-10) kamogawa (Ms6e kosho) Ms6 Chartorenji (Ms4w 1-14) WAKATAKE (NR 2-13) Ms7 aderechelseamaru (Ms5w 0-0-15) Tsuchinoninjin (Ms6w 0-0-15) Ms8 -
  25. Asashosakari

    2022 World Games

    Open Weight Finals Coverage (49m) There's another sumo block supposed to be broadcast in a couple of hours, which I'm assuming will be the open weight preliminaries.