Asashosakari

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Everything posted by Asashosakari

  1. Honestly, it all could be as simple as a cost-cutting move. We know sanyo earn less than full-fledged oyakata, and I think there's also some indication that parts of the Kyokai's business have come to require - well, not fewer workers per se, but fewer members of the sumo world. Even just 10 years ago, the Kyokai's press department was (other than secretarial work) seemingly almost entirely staffed by oyakata. With the shift towards social media and more advanced publication methods in general (e.g. more video, less print), I'm fairly sure they're employing a sizeable number of civilians for those tasks now. I think we've also had some glimpses that the sumo school is more reliant on external lecturers for specialized topics than it was in the past. Other departments like the one in charge of jungyo might have less work to do in general and/or seen that work get done with more efficiency (even the Kyokai isn't stuck using 1980s technology on the business side, after all). There's also the lapsing of several sewanin and wakaimonogashira positions which might indicate decreased workforce requirements as well. Of course, like any business era marked by downsizing efforts, that sucks in particular for those who happen to be entering the "job market" at that exact time. That aside: I know we're all somewhat unclear on what the various sanyo guys actually do, but my impression at least is that they're largely meant to be veterans providing a steadying hand on the etiquette and traditions front as the sumo world tries to come to grips with the way it's variously pushed towards modernization, and what that means for acceptable rikishi (and other personnel) behaviour. Obviously a debate can be had on whether that (if accurate) is actually a good use of resources, or if they would be better off putting more young guys in positions of responsibility. More generally - and I'm sure I talked about that a few years ago, maybe the post was in the Harumafuji scandal thread that mysteriously vanished because I can't find any trace of my comment now - the Hakkaku era as a whole has had a reconstructionist vibe to me, even moreso since Takanohana was sent packing. Because he retired so young at just age 28, ex-Hokutoumi strikes me as very much a 1980s guy in mindset and attitudes about Ozumo, even though he's only a few years older than people such as ex-Akinoshima and ex-Kotonowaka who the older denizens of this forum still saw competing well into the 2000s. During the big wave of scandals from about 2006 to 2011, Hakkaku wasn't even much of a power player (I distinctly recall being confused why an ex-yokozuna was so invisible and seemingly content just running his stable), and I can't help but wonder if his approach to running the good ship NSK is mainly informed by trying to avoid anything that he thinks could lead to public controversy, even if it results in negative long-term effects.
  2. I'm not really sure what you were trying to say here. Both the number of kabu in circulation and the observed pre-sanyo turnover rate were merely separate accidents of history. Nothing in there was "based on" anything in the sense of conscious design to achieve a desirable outcome. If anything the introduction of sanyo itself might qualify as a design decision, which calls entirely into question the implied notion of this discussion that things were "good" before, are "bad" now, and need to be fixed in some way. As I think I've alluded to before, the Kyokai brass may very well see it as a feature that they get to be more picky now with who they allow to become a member.
  3. Asashosakari

    Long Kachikoshi Streaks - Nagoya 2022

    The lineup for the Nagoya 2022 edition of LKS: 1. Kamito 7 2. Ryuo 7 3. Nobehara 6* 4. Kiryuko 6* 5. Wakatakakage 5 [score?] 6. Wakamotoharu 5 7. Nishikigi 5 8. Chiyosakae 5 9. Kainoshima 5 10. Suzuki 5 11. Mukainakano 5* 12. Ryuden 4 13. Tochimaru 4 TB: [pick?] (* marks rikishi with no makekoshi since debut) The scoring and thus your game assignment: For sanyaku: Please predict an exact record for each rikishi. The target record will be calculated after the deadline and will be chosen so that it bisects the predictions as evenly as possible. The predictions will then be converted into + and - votes as usual; one point for each correct prediction. For lower-ranked rikishi: Please predict for each rikishi if he will finish KK or MK; one point for each correct prediction. (For clarification: If you're expecting an outright makekoshi for one of the sanyaku high-rankers, just predict MK, exact records are only needed on the kachikoshi side of things.) First tie-breaker: From among those 13 guys up there and the further 11 9 rikishi (9 7 'veterans', maezumo rookie Raiho and SdTd newcomer Kinbozan - please disregard kyujo Nakaishi and Kototaiga) who are currently just shy of a 5-KK streak, please guess how many KK you expect in total. Your tie-breaker guess may be anything from 0 to 24 22. Only exactly correct guesses qualify at this tie-breaker stage. Note: Sanyaku count as correct for the tie-breaker if they achieve KK, they do not need to meet their target records. Next 12 tie-breakers if needed: Correctly predicted rikishi, one-by-one in ballot order, i.e. starting at Kamito. Extra tie-breakers, should two or more players have entered identical ballots: Proximity of their tie-breaker guesses to the correct number, followed by proximity of their sanyaku rikishi guesses to the correct records (one-by-one in ballot order). Final tie-breaker: earliest entry. Note: Rikishi who show up on the before-shonichi kyujo list will be excluded from scoring (even if they end up joining the basho later), so it is not necessary to re-submit your entry if you picked such a rikishi as a KK; he will not count for points anyhow. You may, however, notify me if you'd like to reduce your tie-breaker guess by one point to compensate for the "missing" rikishi. Your position on the entry list (for final tie-breaker purposes) will be deemed unchanged in this special situation. Any other changes to a ballot will be considered a new entry, with correspondingly lower priority for the final tie-breaker. Deadline: Shonichi noon JST. ----- Simplified entry template: 1. Kamito KKMK 2. Ryuo KKMK 3. Nobehara KKMK 4. Kiryuko KKMK 5. Wakatakakage W-L 6. Wakamotoharu KKMK 7. Nishikigi KKMK 8. Chiyosakae KKMK 9. Kainoshima KKMK 10. Suzuki KKMK 11. Mukainakano KKMK 12. Ryuden KKMK 13. Tochimaru KKMK TB xx ----- Good luck!
  4. Asashosakari

    Long Kachikoshi Streaks - Aki 2022

    Sorry, very very late this time...I'll be extending the deadline by a bit to compensate. See also further comments in a separate post. The lineup for LKS Aki 2022: 1. Ryuo 8 2. Kiryuko 7* 3. Wakatakakage 6 [score?] 4. Nishikigi 6 5. Chiyosakae 6 6. Suzuki 6 7. Mukainakano 6* 8. Ryuden 5 9. Kinbozan 5* 10. Chiyotora 5 11. Inoue 5 12. Hoshoryu 4 [score?] 13. Midorifuji 4 14. Hokuseiho 4 15. Gonoyama 4 TB: [pick?] (* marks rikishi with no makekoshi since debut) The scoring and thus your game assignment: For sanyaku: Please predict an exact record for each rikishi. The target record will be calculated after the deadline and will be chosen so that it bisects the predictions as evenly as possible. The predictions will then be converted into + and - votes as usual; one point for each correct prediction. For lower-ranked rikishi: Please predict for each rikishi if he will finish KK or MK; one point for each correct prediction. (For clarification: If you're expecting an outright makekoshi for one of the sanyaku high-rankers, just predict MK, exact records are only needed on the kachikoshi side of things.) First tie-breaker: From among those 15 guys up there and the further 3 rikishi who are currently just shy of a 5-KK streak, please guess how many KK you expect in total. Your tie-breaker guess may be anything from 0 to 18. Only exactly correct guesses qualify at this tie-breaker stage. Note: Sanyaku count as correct for the tie-breaker if they achieve KK, they do not need to meet their target records. Next 14 tie-breakers if needed: Correctly predicted rikishi, one-by-one in ballot order, i.e. starting at Ryuo. Extra tie-breakers, should two or more players have entered identical ballots: Proximity of their tie-breaker guesses to the correct number, followed by proximity of their sanyaku rikishi guesses to the correct records (one-by-one in ballot order). Final tie-breaker: earliest entry. Note: Rikishi who show up on the before-shonichi kyujo list will be excluded from scoring (even if they end up joining the basho later), so it is not necessary to re-submit your entry if you picked such a rikishi as a KK; he will not count for points anyhow. You may, however, notify me if you'd like to reduce your tie-breaker guess by one point to compensate for the "missing" rikishi. Your position on the entry list (for final tie-breaker purposes) will be deemed unchanged in this special situation. Any other changes to a ballot will be considered a new entry, with correspondingly lower priority for the final tie-breaker. Deadline: Shonichi noon Monday 9am JST. ----- Simplified entry template: 1. Ryuo KKMK 2. Kiryuko KKMK 3. Wakatakakage W-L 4. Nishikigi KKMK 5. Chiyosakae KKMK 6. Suzuki KKMK 7. Mukainakano KKMK 8. Ryuden KKMK 9. Kinbozan KKMK 10. Chiyotora KKMK 11. Inoue KKMK 12. Hoshoryu W-L 13. Midorifuji KKMK 14. Hokuseiho KKMK 15. Gonoyama KKMK TB xx ----- Good luck!
  5. Asashosakari

    Long Kachikoshi Streaks - Aki 2022

    - Ryuo - Kiryuko 9 Wakatakakage - Nishikigi - Chiyosakae - Suzuki - Mukainakano + Ryuden + Kinbozan - Chiyotora + Inoue 8 Hoshoryu - Midorifuji + Hokuseiho - Gonoyama TB 8
  6. Asashosakari

    Retirements after Natsu 2022

    Sanspo was fastest this time, releasing the list of 16 retiring rikishi including former short-time sekitori Irodori (Shikoroyama) and Gokushindo (Nishikido) whose intai were already announced on senshuraku. The others: Mugendai (Fujishima) Fukamiyama (Onoe) Taichiyama (Tokiwayama) Azumasato (Tamanoi) Hokutokawa (Hakkaku) Akashifuji (Tagonoura) Amatsu (Onomatsu) Oazuma (Tamanoi) Sakurafuji (Isegahama) Hokutohiro (Hakkaku) Ariake (Isenoumi) Hokutoo (Hakkaku) Onofuji (Isegahama) Zendaisho (Takadagawa)
  7. Asashosakari

    Long Kachikoshi Streaks - Aki 2022

    21 hours extra this basho; please don't try to game the system. In other news: We got very lucky that the various involuntary exits didn't affect the Nagoya results (which I still need to post, I know). Going forward, since reaching KK or MK is pretty much integral to this game's scoring, any rikishi who is not allowed by rule to do that will be excluded from the scoring, i.e. I'm not going to consider enforced absences to be part of a makekoshi. Covid fusenpai will not be counted as losses. In addition, any rikishi that gets taken out of the basho due to Covid rules on Day 1 or 2 will be excluded in any case, even if he (re-)joins the basho later, same as a pre-Day 1 kyujo. (This rule may be slightly adjusted when the game is back to its normal deadline in November.) I'm also reserving the right to take Covid-positive rikishi out of the game discretionally if it turns out that the Kyokai's rules are forcing clearly incapacitated rikishi back into action once they're negative again.
  8. Asashosakari

    Banzuke for Aki 2022

    https://www.sumo.or.jp/EnHonbashoBanzuke/index/ Makuuchi Terunofuji Y --- Takakeisho O Shodai --- O Mitakeumi Wakatakakage S Hoshoryu Daieisho S --- Abi K Ichinojo --- K Kiribayama Tobizaru M1 Midorifuji Kotonowaka M2 Meisei Tamawashi M3 Ura Nishikigi M4 Takayasu Takarafuji M5 Sadanoumi Wakamotoharu M6 Endo Aoiyama M7 Onosho Tochinoshin M8 Hokutofuji Myogiryu M9 Kotoeko Nishikifuji M10 Takanosho Kotoshoho M11 Chiyotairyu Okinoumi M12 Ryuden Ichiyamamoto M13 Oho Chiyoshoma M14 Yutakayama Terutsuyoshi M15 Tsurugisho Mitoryu M16 Hiradoumi
  9. Asashosakari

    Aki banzuke trivia

    Perhaps someone wants to start the basho discussion thread early? This isn't very trivia-related by this point, and really hasn't been since Ishiura was first mentioned for whatever reason.
  10. Asashosakari

    Banzuke for Aki 2022

    There's also Daimanazuru's promotion from Ms16 indicating that it's still possible to get promoted from outside the top 15. It's simply that only 7-0's inside the top 15 ranks are getting special priority, while others further down (including Ms15Td, assuming the Shimoda case was actual precedent and not just a one-off) have to rely on the more general banzuke-making considerations.
  11. Exact date of retirement August 31st, according to Nikkan (gotta be clear for the DB).
  12. Asashosakari

    Aki banzuke trivia

    Indeed, no previous banzuke with an odd number of rikishi at each of the four sanyaku ranks. Checking iteratively: Basho with 3 komusubi (none with 5) Basho with 3 sekiwake among the 3K set (none with 5) Basho with 3 ozeki among the 3K + 3S set and Basho with 5 ozeki among the 3K + 3S set (none with 1) Number of yokozuna in basho with 3K + 3S + 3/5O However, if it's about then there have been five previous cases with setups that can no longer happen. Leaving aside that the notion of "gaps" doesn't really work for the physical banzuke, so instead this is effectively "banzuke with four sanyaku rungs that were only occupied by one rikishi". 1897.01 with one yokozuna, two West-side ozeki, and three sekiwake 1918.05 with three (out of four) East-side yokozuna, and three (out of four) West-side ozeki 1919.01 with three yokozuna, three (out of four) West-side ozeki, and three sekiwake 1955.01 and 1955.03 with a West-side Y2 and an East-side Y3, one ozeki, and three sekiwake Taking the physical layout completely into account there may be even more cases that technically qualify (I didn't check for these in detail), e.g. 1938.01 which only had two single-occupancy rungs with one ozeki and three sekiwake, but where the two Y2 rikishi were not placed in equivalent positions (East inside the frame, West as haridashi).
  13. Asashosakari

    Aki banzuke trivia

    My understanding is that a top 15 7-0 is in fact treated as first in line for promotion by internal rule, that's the whole reason they publicly felt the need to state that Shimoda's tsukedashi position technically wasn't inside the top 15 at the time.
  14. Asashosakari

    Kaisei Intai

    It could also just be an error on the Kyokai site. They rushed the update adding him to the oyakata overview page, but he's not yet on the duties page which I tend to consider more authoritative.
  15. Asashosakari

    Kaisei Intai

    No real idea, to be honest. I kind of doubt that monetary bonuses were paid out for tournaments that didn't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised by favourable treatment if there's ever an edge case for the oyakata requirements, since those rules can be overridden by simple board majority anyway.
  16. Asashosakari

    Kaisei Intai

    Of course it counts. Failing to compete is never grounds for discounting a basho from a rikishi's appearance tally. (Unless the reason is a suspension, perhaps.) Absent rikishi are getting their basho bonuses paid, and they're also getting retirement bonus money for such tournaments. It would be odd if the Kyokai decided to treat things differently for the oyakata career requirements.
  17. Asashosakari

    Banzuke for Aki 2022

    (Moved over from the GTB thread.) I don't think that's what they actually did. As @Gurowake and @Sumo Spiffy also noted, it looks roughly like for those with 8+ wins they assumed all the absences were losses, and for those with 8+ losses they assumed the absences were wins. Endo's placement is consistent with this interpretation, as is Nishikigi's. I don't know about that. At the very least, how Endo and Hokutofuji were treated then implies inconsistency in how they looked at the fusenpai. They don't seem to have tossed it out for Hokutofuji, because to do so would mean a 7-8 record for him but he fell below Tochinoshin's real 7-8. On the contrary, if the fusenpai were counted as a loss for Endo as well (and the other absences as wins), he'd be 5-10 and should have fallen below Aoiyama, rather than stayed between Wakamotoharu and Aoiyama's nearby 6-9 records. Elsewhere it does appear that they've consistently treated the fusenpai as a loss in the sekitori divisions, and then let the usual banzuke luck take hold so that e.g. Tamawashi stayed put with 8 losses (like Ura and Sadanoumi also did in the joi) while Tsurugisho dropped with 8 (like Chiyoshoma also did down low). However, then in juryo it's all even more messy with Azumaryu and Kaisho demoted slightly with records that weren't MK even with the fusen. I guess Kaisho can be excused simply because he's in a very crunched banzuke area, but I don't see why they dropped Azumaryu when space was still plentiful in his zone. It's almost like they tried to treat those two consistently even though it required breaking away from what they did in makuuchi. Then in the lower divisions, it looks like the fusenpai were consistently treated as not MK-clinching; all the guys with 2-4-1 records after three real losses stayed at their ranks. (Edit: Ditto everybody who finished 3-4 with a Covid fusen.) They messed up elsewhere, though; there are two further 2-4-1's who had four real losses + Covid exit, Kaihiryu and Kotofuno, and while they did both get demoted as one would expect, Kaihiryu seemingly got 3-4 treatment for the absence while Kotofuno got 2-5. I haven't yet looked at how much sense the promotions and demotions are making for all the other guys who had clinched KK or MK already before they were taken out. ----- Commiserations to Daiamami who also got caught out by the mid-low juryo crunch and might as well have finished with a full 2-13; his new rank doesn't look much like a 4-11 equivalent (let alone a 5-10, if he'd received his stablemate Endo's apparent treatment). And since nobody has explicitly mentioned it yet - after having fought to a 6-2 record, Ichiyamamoto is now two spots closer to juryo than he was. That's just splendid.
  18. Asashosakari

    Banzuke for Nagoya 2022

    https://www.sumo.or.jp/EnHonbashoBanzuke/index/ Makuuchi Terunofuji Y --- Takakeisho O Mitakeumi --- O Shodai Wakatakakage S Daieisho Hoshoryu K Abi Kiribayama M1 Takanosho Kotonowaka M2 Ichinojo Tamawashi M3 Ura Wakamotoharu M4 Takayasu Endo M5 Sadanoumi Aoiyama M6 Tobizaru Okinoumi M7 Hokutofuji Tochinoshin M8 Nishikigi Shimanoumi M9 Kotoeko Chiyotairyu M10 Meisei Kotoshoho M11 Midorifuji Terutsuyoshi M12 Takarafuji Ichiyamamoto M13 Chiyoshoma Myogiryu M14 Tsurugisho Onosho M15 Oho Yutakayama M16 Daiamami Nishikifuji M17 Chiyomaru
  19. Asashosakari

    Kaisei Intai

    Kintamachikyuu desu ka
  20. Asashosakari

    Banzuke for Aki 2022

    Makushita Sandanme Jonidan Jonokuchi (New shikona in red.)
  21. Asashosakari

    Banzuke for Aki 2022

    Makushita-joi Kaisei Ms1 Roga Tomokaze Ms2 Yago Yoshii Ms3 Daishomaru Tsushimanada Ms4 Tsukahara Fujiseiun Ms5 Shonannoumi Kamito Ms6 Chiyonoumi Shiden Ms7 Tokihayate Tochiseiryu Ms8 Hakuyozan Chiyonoo Ms9 Tamashoho Ishiura Ms10 Oshoryu Shishi Ms11 Akiseyama Suzuki Ms12 Hokutenkai Kainoshima Ms13 Kotoyusho Tsurubayashi Ms14 Tochikamiyama Asanoyama Ms15 Chiyoarashi
  22. Asashosakari

    Banzuke for Aki 2022

    Juryo Shimanoumi J1 Chiyomaru Chiyonokuni J2 Azumaryu Atamifuji J3 Tohakuryu Kagayaki J4 Bushozan Hidenoumi J5 Asanowaka Akua J6 Churanoumi Kotokuzan J7 Enho Daiamami J8 Daishoho Hokuseiho J9 Kaisho Shimazuumi J10 Tokushoryu Chiyosakae J11 Kitanowaka Gonoyama J12 Kinbozan Oshoma J13 Tochimaru Tochimusashi J14 Takakento
  23. Asashosakari

    GTB invite- Aki 2022 - RESULTS!!

    Counter-question: Why should anyone whose tournament was interrupted be treated "normally"? You're seemingly not treating Nishikigi's record normally either, because you've placed his 8 wins ahead of Midorifuji's 10 despite only three ranks difference. I see no reasonable justification for throwing out the missed matches altogether for somebody who's 8-4, but not for somebody else who's 7-3, 6-2, 5-1 or 4-0. Of course there's significant scope for discounting the shorter records to some degree (hence, again, that's why Takarafuji's +3 in 15 matches vs Ichiyamamoto's +4 in 8 is an interesting microcosm of the whole mess), but I'm really puzzled about the notion that a reasonable treatment involves ignoring matches that actually happened solely because they left a sidelined rikishi short of 8 wins or 8 losses. To say nothing about the fact that those same matches will have counted for (most of) their opponents... The issue isn't limited just to makuuchi anyway, and I would expect that they decided on something that works for all divisions. The elephant in the room is probably J2w Tohakuryu 3-7 vs J3w Daishoho 4-8. I defy anyone to explain how it would be "fair" to send Daishoho down the rankings but treat Tohakuryu to a courtesy demotion of one rank or even no demotion at all. Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying all that in order to proclaim that the Kyokai has definitely chosen my approach. I won't be surprised at all to finish GTB in last place. The part that puzzles me is the fan perception stated in various posts around here since the end of the basho that it would somehow be fair to not move Covid rikishi who had lopsided records but not quite 8 wins/losses. The way the banzuke works, such "fair" treatment of those rikishi contrary to their posted records will necessarily result in somebody else's unfair treatment.
  24. Asashosakari

    GTB invite- Aki 2022 - RESULTS!!

    It's not a "projected" kachikoshi. It's a 6-2 record in 8 matches.
  25. Asashosakari

    GTB invite- Aki 2022 - RESULTS!!

    That's just banzuke luck on top of the +4 treatment. I couldn't justify putting Wakamotoharu in front of Sadanoumi, and somebody had to be M5e. Doesn't make much of a difference to the overall approach even if you flip Waka and Ichi, though, hence my point that Ichiyamamoto and Takarafuji are the interesting pair to watch here. Anyway, there's Nishikigi going up nearly as much on another +4 record and that appears to be uncontroversial for a 10-man sanyaku banzuke, so it's not like Ichiyamamoto's placement is particularly out of line if they're treating all missed bouts equally as just not having any effect at all.