Kashunowaka

Getoutahere! Tosanoumi again! Fourth time in a row, isn't it? (Laughing...)

I have been thinking the same thing. On the other hand, do we really need a separate subforum for Honbasho Talk? :-O

That's a good point. Speaking as poll maker, I must say that I appreciate your comment. ;-) I'll try to come up with something more original next time (we all will, I guess...) Still, I enjoyed making the poll and reading the comments. For instance, the support for Musoyama was much worse than I thought. :-O

A playoff loss. However, I've seen some J's which should have been D's... There were bound to be some errors... :-) Futahaguro was involved in a playoff against Chiyonofuji in Nagoya 1986, after which he was promoted. And Asahifuji lost the playoff versus Hokutoumi in Hatsu 1989.

Very interesting report. (Applauding...) Thank you very much for posting it. I am yet again reminded of what a game of minds sumo is. Asashoryu may well be 37-9 against Chiyotaikai in keiko, but they only meet once in the basho. My feeling is that Chiyotaikai's sumo leaves less room for mistakes - but last basho in the yusho-deciding bout against Asashoryu, he made no mistakes. It was perfectly executed sumo by Chiyotaikai. (Boxing...) Hopefully there will be just as much at stake when they meet on senshuraku in Natsu basho. I can't wait :-) Two basho is all it takes... (Shaking head...) :-P

Why do you think this happened? It became harder because of stricter interpretation of the yokozuna promotion guidelines. And the reason for that is as Yubiquitoyama-zeki said; mainly because of a couple of rather unimpressive yokozuna, Futahaguro and Onokuni. Futahaguro was forced to retire (1987) because of a scandal, and is the only yokozuna never to have won a yusho. Onokuni was the first yokozuna to go makekoshi in a completed tournament (1989). The current guidelines for yokozuna promotion are no guarantee for good performances as yokozuna, which Wakanohana showed (he was the second makekoshi yokozuna in 1999), and of course there can never be such a guarantee. But at least all yokozuna since Asahifuji have had to prove themselves before being promoted. Even Wakanohana should be very proud of his career; he won 5 yusho and was great to watch.

I didn't know we had one. (Just do not get it...) Hasn't been one since 1987 or thereabout, IMHO. :-)

I disagree with that characterization :-) In your statistics, you show 9 yokozuna who had 2 consecutive yusho wins, vs. only 5 who had 1 yusho. That's more than "rather few" Alright, then I'll try to elaborate a little. From the 47th yokozuna Kashiwado to the 62th Onokuni, there are 16 yokozuna: 47th Kashiwado 48th Taiho 49th Tochinoumi 50th Sadanoyama 51st Tamanoumi 52nd Kitanofuji 53rd Kotozakura 54th Wajima 55th Kitanoumi 56th Wakanohana 57th Mienoumi 58th Chiyonofuji 59th Takanosato 60th Futahaguro 61st Hokutoumi 62nd Onokuni They all became yokouna since the introduction of 6 basho/year. Only three of them (Taiho, Kitanofuji, Kitazakura) won two consecutive yusho before promotion. Exactly my point. At the end of the 80s, it became harder to be promoted to yokozuna. One of the first victims of the stricter interpretation of the rules was Asahifuji. This is his record of 1988-89: (Y=yusho, J=jun-yusho) 1988 Hatsu 14-1Y Haru 12-3 (3rd place, winner had 13-2) Natsu 12-3J Nagoya 11-4 (3rd) Aki 12-3J Kyushu 12-3J 1989 Hatsu 14-1J (same result as winner) Haru 13-2J (winner had 14-1) One should think that he was good enough to be yokozuna after 4 consecutive jun-yusho, going 12-12-14-13. He had also proven that he could win earlier. But he had to wait until he won two in a row, the following year. Just as an example from a few years before, this is Hokutoumi's record as ozeki: 1986 Aki 12-3J (winner 14-1) Kyushu 8-7 1987 Hatsu 11-4 (3rd, winner 12-3) Haru 12-3Y Natsu 13-2J (winner 15-0) And then he was promoted.

And so he was promoted after winning only 1 yusho? Since no one else has answered this... :-) Yes, one yusho was good enough - there weren't as many bashos per year then. But even after the number of bashos was increased to six per year, rather few ozeki needed to win two yusho in a row to get promoted, and some were even promoted without winning two yusho ever. According to Chiyozakura's sumoinfo.de, these are the yokozuna who won two consecutive yusho as ozeki right before promotion (since 1961): Nr Shikona Year 48 Taiho 1961 52 Kitanofuji 1970 53 Kotozakura 1973 63 Asahifuji 1990 64 Akebono 1993 65 Takanohana 1994 66 Wakanohana 1998 67 Musashimaru 1999 68 Asashoryu 2003 The following yokozuna had won less than two yusho ever before promotion: Nr Shikona Year 47 Kashiwado 1961 56 Wakanohana II 1978 57 Mienoumi 1979 60 Futahaguro 1986 62 Onokuni 1987

After Takanohana was allowed to stay as yokozuna despite missing seven bashos in a row (Yucky...), Musashimaru can surely take his time without being forced to retire, which is what he is doing right now. I hope (and guess) he will return in Nagoya and continue for a couple of bashos. I don't think Musashimaru will retire without even coming back to the dohyo. My guess is that he will eventually retire :-S after doing poorly during the first couple of days of a basho, just like Takanohana, Wakanohana, Chiyonofuji etc. :-) It would be great if he went after winning a basho though, like Akebono did. :-)

When I was little, I thought Mumindalen (Moomin Valley) was a rather scary place, what with M

It seems like a good idea. Japanese culture is not really off-topic to sumo, so perhaps it could be a subforum under "Sumo Related Subjects"? Edit: I am sure there are "more appropriate places in the net already for this purpose", but I don't see why the topic cannot be discussed here as well. :-) :-)

Tove Jansson wrote in Swedish, so Mumin is correct. In English, it's Moomin.

The ongoing basho is always the best. (Juggling...)

My feelings exactly, btw... I just put him on there as a technicality :) The most unrespected Ozeki ever? :) Not a chance. ;-) Musoyama's record as ozeki: 0-0-15 4-11 (demotion) (10-5 as sekiwake, re-promotion) 9-6 9-6 12-3 9-6 10-5 10-5 9-6 10-5 10-5 9-5-1 0-0-15 8-7 10-5 8-7 1-6-8 After the re-promotion, he has been quite consistent, but seems to have fallen into a slump lately. Compare this with Miyabiyama's ozeki record: 6-9 8-7 9-6 8-7 7-8 9-6 7-8 3-7-5 (demotion) And I'm sure there have been others just as bad, or worse.

Kotomitsuki dropping from Sekiwake West to Maegashira 2 East with a 6-9 record... now why does that seem so familiar? >:-( (Sigh...)

Oh yes. He even repeated the information tonight (days 13-15). (Oops! ) Wasn't the joke from a real sports site? Do you mean that you wrote it? (Sign of approval)

Yes, that was clearly a case of bad information, but I suppose once in a while such things get through. That April fools joke at least had some staying power :-P You are being too lenient, Yubiquitoyama-zeki (Eating...) (In love...) By the way, I have never been a fan of Toki, but now after having seen "carbon Toki" Takanotsuru a couple of times, I must concede that perhaps the original Toki isn't so bad after all... (Enjoying a beer...)

I just found out that I can still vote in almost all of the polls. I think it would be good if voting were prevented in all polls except those that are still current. For the moment, the only current poll seems to be the "How many Ozeki..." poll. I realize that what I am asking for probably means a lot of work for our esteemed Rijicho. (Enjoying a beer...) A few suggestions/wishes: The creator of a new poll should be able to set a final date for voting in a poll. It should be possible to leave comments in the topic after voting is closed. If setting a final date isn't possible, the second best thing would be to let the creator of the poll be able to lock the poll. If nothing of this is possible, perhaps the suggestions should be forwarded to IPS, so that the board can be improved even further? That is, if you agree with me, of course. (Eating...)

Oh, I find it very interesting to go back in time and compare what people used to think with what we know now. Reading really old posts from the mailing list archive at http://www.banzuke.com is another hobby of mine. (Enjoying a beer...) For most polls it seems to be until right before next basho. But that differs, of course. Very nice! (Eating...) Is IPB open source?

In 2000 Hatsu basho, there were 4 sekiwake: Kaio, Tochiazuma, Musoyama and Takanonami. :-):-):-):-) Tochiazuma, Dejima, Akinoshima and Kaio were the 4 komusubi in Haru 1999. :-):-):-):-) But has there ever been 5 sekiwake or komusubi? (Enjoying a beer...)(Being unsure...)(Being unsure...)(Being unsure...)(Being unsure...)

This thread is digressing more and more. I don't really mind, but perhaps the discussion should continue elsethread? (Being unsure...) (Order, order! ) (Order, order! ) (Being unsure...) (Enjoying a beer...)

:-D "This is the new member of SumoForum, Kashunowaka from Stockholm Beya. I have been following Sumo since 1996, and with this post I make my hatsu-dohyo in this forum. I will try to do my own brand of posting to this forum so I hope you'll be rooting for me."

Must... not... confuse... Zentoryu with Zenjimoto... Must... not... confuse... Zentoryu with Zenjimoto...