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Showing content with the highest reputation on 30/11/24 in all areas
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3 points
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3 pointsjungyo are sponsored by local organizers, while koen are more akin to cultural performances set up by the JSA itself.
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2 points
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2 pointsHi there, I have updated Superbanzuke stuff. Now you have access to the Kyushu Masters results here (permalink). Gonzaburow won a second career Green Mawashi (the first one was in Aki 2017) without a single game yusho. However, double digits in Roto Sumo, Sekitori Oracle, and Salarycap Sumo laid the foundation for a strong 63.83 points finish and were enough to keep contestants Frinkanohana (56.72) and Oyama (54.05) at bay. Asapedroryu receives the shukun-sho (his first sansho ever) for double yusho in Roto Sumo and UDH. Kachikoshi also grabbed his first sansho ever (gino-sho) for strong performance in daily games (jun-yusho in Toto) and pre-basho games (jun-yusho in Juryo Game and UDH). I was surprised to find out that veteran Frinkanohana had more Green Mawashi (2) than sansho in his career. However, with his first kanto-sho (8 Top 10 finishes) he equalized his tally. Congratulations to all the winners! Aaaand... we have the Final Standings of the 2024 World Championship here. Pandaazuma cleared the scene by getting his sixth World Champion title, his fifth shukun-sho, sixth gino-sho, eighth kanto-sho, second Daily Championship, and sixth pre-basho Championship. The only other player to feature in the super-categories is Kaito (tied for shukun-sho). And these are the 2024 World Champions in individual games (number of respective titles in brackets): Bench Sumo: Pitinosato (3) Chaingang: Gusoyama (1) Tippspiel: Terarno (2) Guess the Banzuke: Kobashi (1) Hoshitori Game: Pandaazuma (3) ISP: Oyama (1) Juryo Game: Asashosakari (1) and Achiyama (1) Norizo Cup: kawazi (1) Odd Sumo: Norizo (2) Ozumo Bingo Game: Wamahada (1) Paper Oyakata Game: puripuri (1) RotoSumo: Konya ga Yamada (1) Salarycap Sumo: Yarimotsu (1) Sekitori Oracle: Pandaazuma (3) Sekitori Quadrumvirate: ScreechingOwl (2) Sekitori-Toto: Kaito (1) Sumo Game: Kirinoumi (1) Turn the Tide: Kaito (1) Upside Down Hoshitori: Kaito (1)
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2 pointsVery very belated Final Standings (I'm sorry...): Chishafuwaku won the November 2024 edition of the Makushita Game in front of Asapedroryu. For players in the range Y to M4, you have to subtract 1.5 points to your win points tally and round up half-points. That being said, the KK/MK line runs between Andrasoyama and Yokozuna Oskanohana. For players in the range M5 and lower, you have to add 0.5 points to your win points tally and round down half-points. The crucial line runs between Kaiowaka and Zannah. Shukun-sho: Goes to Joputosu in one of the most protracted decisions ever. It took him nine(!) tie-breakers to defeat Bunbukuchugama. Joputosu picked 6-1 Tochimaru, Ishizaki, Okaryu, Dewataikai, 5-2 Kiryoku, Tochimusashi, Seihakuho, and 4-3 Takakento before his 4-3 Haruyama was superior to Bunbu's 3-4 Kumanoryu in ninth bracket. Kanto-sho: Chishafuwaku (66 wins) Gino-sho: Ketsukai (14.12 points; e.g. 4 points for Kotodaigo, 2 points for Hogasho)
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2 points
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2 pointsCould it be a koen vs. Jungyo thing? It seems there were only 38 sekitori in Hawaii. They are calling this a koen. (When Sadogatake came here in 2006 I called it a Cohen..) In any case, I'm only the translator.. 海外公演は2005年の米ラスベガス以来で20年ぶり。12月4日に八角理事長(元横綱北勝海)が現地で記者会見を行う。
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1 pointThe standings should correctly reflect the rules as laid out there. Unfortunately I long since lost access to the website that the Toto rules page is hosted on, and the game frontend was never equipped to actually show the tie-break values.
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1 pointFrom where do you gather this data? It would be interesting to look at data for each rikishi over long terms.
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1 pointYup. There are some interesting implications that feel very unintuitive, for example that Ms2w 4-3 would not be strong enough to force down J14e 7-8. I was rooting for Kotokuzan in his last match, but Miyagi finishing 4-3 would have been an acceptable outcome just to see that tested. (Ultimately it didn't matter because Daishoho collapsed even worse than Nabatame, and we wouldn't have got the Nabatame / Miyagi comparison anyway.)
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1 pointReonito answered the question, but I'll address the struggling a way to compare the different results of bouts. In general, they are not comparable directly. That they seem to be doing so for the last few years when it comes to Juryo promotions is very strange. It's almost as if they wanted for there to not be any question of whether someone deserved a promotion compared to the available demotee and they picked a way that's easy for middle-school educated people to calculate that's not all too far off from what they have been doing in the past, though it's obviously a bit stingier than we're used to. Generally the results of the 7 match schedule result in a larger movement than the win - losses number suggests for sekitori, and the size of this rank expansion gets slowly larger as you go further down the banzuke. There's no real way to have any good idea where someone will end up without collecting data for where people similarly situated ended up. The task is somewhat simplified by there being fairly rigid requirements for promotion to Sandanme and Makushita from the division below, but that doesn't help too much for demotions, nor what exactly they will do at the top of Makushita.
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1 point
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1 pointAt his age, he may have a run or two left in him, but as much as I like him, I see him as a perennial sekiwake capable of the occasional outstanding performance. Not out of the question, but I've no expectation for him to rise any higher. His comeback is great, but I see it as a natural consequence of the injury being dealt with sensibly and promptly. No one expected someone as badly damaged as Terunofuji to do what he did. Possibly the GOAT comeback in sumo, but they should never have let it get that bad.
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1 pointI believe he's just taking the difference between wins and losses for both 15-bout results and 7-bout results, using this difference as the expected number of ranks moved down/up, and essentially treating Ms1-Ms5 as though they were J15-J19 for this specific purpose. I don't think this method would predict the relative ranking of J and Ms rikishi who end up in Makushita, or even the movements within upper Makushita, though I haven't done the analysis.
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1 pointSomewhat OT but I laughed (too) hard at this. Maybe I'm the only one here getting thrown when folks save a handful of letters... I get we can infer who's being talked about from context but when I see "Kise" I think "Kise beya" but on this forum it's used almost exclusively referencing Kisenosato. Seems equally strange to be referring to Kotozakura here as "Koto" when that's the prefix of literally an entire heya (and a Tokyo ward housing much sumo history) and a bit like referring to Terunofuji as "Fuji"... but maybe I'm in a minority of one here. But Yoko Ono might be the exception that makes the rule and the true acceptable use case, not only that but it's fully Kintamayaman in nature. Though of course, we've already had a Yoko Bono and I'm not sure I'd want to hear that... ;)
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1 pointThings have been more flexible in the last two promotions compared to earlier post-Futahaguro ones (not questioning them, just stating facts). But I can’t see a yokozuna promotion without any yusho—maybe two doten, but not a JY and a doten.
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1 pointI am not saying it is mathematically impossible, but any writer daring to propose such a scenario as even remotely plausible would get laughed out of the room.
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1 pointRight, but the idea would be, how well do people promoted with a 7-0 do compared to those promoted with a 6-1, 5-2, etc? If the 7-0s tend to do meaningfully better on average than then the 6-1s the next basho, then either the 7-0s are not being promoted far enough, or the 6-1s too far.
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1 pointI feel very sorry for both Kirinoumi-san and Athenayama-san. All I can do is give you both a Sorry award. Susanoo
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1 pointI am hoping Onosato eventually becomes yokozuna, so we can call him Yoko Ono
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1 point37 Showa Survivors participated in this basho, 36 on the banzuke and Higohikari showed up in maezumo as well (um, yay?). And it was a pretty good way to end the year, with the veterans chalking up a combined 132 wins and 144 losses, 16 kachi-koshi and 19 make-koshi. Of our sekitori trio, Takarafuji and Tamawashi both managed 8-7 kachi-koshi, the latter becoming only the 4th rikishi in the modern era to do so as a 40-year-old. However, Sadanoumi could muster only 4 wins and is vulnerable to Juryo demotion on the next banzuke. As a minor trivia note, this was his 34th basho holding a double-digit Maegashira rank, breaking the previous record set by Asanowaka. Besides fighting the 1,000th bout of his career, 43-year-old Asatenmai compiled a 6-1 kachi-koshi at the top of Jonidan. Fighting in Jonokuchi for only the third time, Satonofuji at least kept up his 100% kachi-koshi record there, and ends a six-basho make-koshi streak as a result. Tenichi - 1,300th career bout, Day 11. Hienriki - 1,100th career bout, Day 12. Asatenmai - 1,000th career bout, Day 5. Hitachigo - 800th career bout, Day 2. Also 400th career loss, Day 10. Moriurara - 600th career loss, Day 8. Takarafuji - 600th Makuuchi loss, Day 10. Full results for 2024 Kyushu in banzuke order:
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1 pointMy fellow Keepers of Kisenosato's Flame! It is 15 years ago that I started this Graph thingy. Back then I was living with my wife and baby boy in Latvia (or "f*cking Latvia" as I call it these days) and was only moderately skilled in wasting time. It turned out that "not really into drinking" was a big minus when it came to enduring endless winters, so all that was left was exploring rabbit holes online. I remember that I shortly entertained the notion of looking into this new Crypto thing, but then my wife wanted something (which was most likely trivial, cumbersome and/or annoying) and when I returned from the distraction I thought "Nah, that's a bit crazy anyway..." So I developed this Graph instead. F*ck materialism! Let's cross-breed mediocre command of tools, restricted sense of objective beauty and other people's data vault! Here we are, one anniversary further. The never ending story of minute cosmetic advances: Prompted by a fan request, I clarified shikona changes of featured rikishi. Originally, I had thought that there are few enough cases of guys going for a new name at random points in time, instead of when they had achieved a new meaningful rank (i.e. Juryo or Ozeki debut). Based on that, I indicated some future names in brackets and relied on the reader's skills to connect the dots in case of promotions. This left a couple of itchy spots, though, as e.g. seeing the debut entry "Shimoyama (Wakamisugi)" wouldn't – at least at first glance – point towards Yokozuna Wakanohana (II). While fixing this by adding subtle additional hints, I also connected the dots for real for the handful of yusho by guys changing their shikona after winning their first one. My smug smile faded quickly, though, as Mr. Kotokamatani trotted along to give me a headache with his fancy new I-will-change-my-name-two-months-later-than-everyone-else antics. In the end, I – helped by a shower of curses, that might or might not have involved moto-Kisenosato as a point of reference – prevailed. I swapped (and – IIRC – additionally modified) the fill colors for Tsukedashi debuts. Starting from Makushita now looks darker than starting from Sandanme, so Regular to Sd-TD to Ms-TD debut decrease in brightness of shade. Then I thought I could add the actual debut TD-rank as as small info snippet next to the actual emblem, which turned out to be visually pleasing. Finally, I overhauled the indicators for expanded Komusubi and Sekiwake slot numbers. Previously, there were little white numbers in the colored bars, forcing you to properly zoom in to get the exact picture. This was replaced by banded bars with segments representing the number of rikishi placed on the respective rank. This is well distinguishable with a lower zoom level. Well done. Go me. So what does the Graph visually tell us about 2024 in relationship to previous years: [Disclaimer: Like always, I'm talking about 1958+ stuff; so if I say "never before" it means exactly that or "not since 1958"] Let's get the elephant out of the room by stating the obvious: Onosato is the fastest everything. He's is also the first guy ever to win a yusho from Komusubi and Sekiwake ranks. He achieved this despite sharing a roof with his shisho, so there's a good chap. Talking of many-colored winner ranks. In 2024, champions listed Maegashira, Komusubi, Sekiwake, Ozeki and Yokozuna (2x). The full set had never been achieved in a calendar year. In fact we even saw the uninterrupted set from III to XI. Only the ascending order was screwed up, because f*cking Terunofuji (or maybe his cybernetics roadie) couldn't wait for his turn. One major reason why the full straight hadn't been achieved in the past is the absolute rarity of Komusubi yusho. Onosato's was only the 6th ever [= since 1958]. Takakeisho retired with 4 career yusho, which is the second highest for career Ozeki after the eternal Kaio (5). Generally speaking, multiple career yusho for retiring non-Yokozunæ didn't even happen until Kaiketsu and Takanohana (I) set the precedences beginning in the late 70s. The reason for this is not readily apparent, so it's likely just manifest randomness. In VII (and IX) we had 13 different former Makuuchi yusho champions on the banzuke again, which makes me unhappy for aesthetic reasons. As Kotozakura's yusho will put a third record marker on the Graph for January 2025, I'm praying for number 14. Go Atamifuji! Become AtomiFuji!! With a lot of ex-champs come lots of absentees. The last time every previous champion was competing in Makuuchi for at least one bout was way back in VII-2020, right after the Covid break, which allowed everyone to recover from injuries like normal people do. We came close, though, as three times only one former champ was AWL (Wakatakakage on his way back up in I and II , and Takerufuji in VII). The amount of ex-champions on the banzuke naturally comes with lots of new first time winners. In the last 5 years (2020-2024) we had 9 such debutants, which is a record tied with the periods of 2018-2022 and 1971-1975 (or 1972-1976, as all the yusho debuts occured in the period of 1972-1975). Terunofuji's 10th yusho is worth mentioning, I guess. He's the first new dai-Yokozuna since Hakuho's ascension in III-2009. Though, isn't Kisenosato also a champion of champions of all our hearts? A bit like Lady Di, just with less clothes and tunnels. Kirishima's and Takakeisho's demotions make it 9 in 5 years, which is ridiculous and unprecedented. Talking of inconsistency and relative shiteness of the top crop: Last year I introduced the yusho power rating for the extended version of the Graph. If you cannot be bothered to scroll up for the details: For each tournament, look at all competing ex-champions. Calculate the average wins for winning their respective yusho up until this point in time. In most eras this would always be above 13, often as high as 13.5 and hovering around 14 when Hakuho was in his pomp. Now it stayed below 12.7 all year. The year's average is 12.6 and the worst ever. Nota bene! I know that the yusho average this year was 12.83. I'm talking about the career wins-for-yusho averages of the competing ex-champions. The dreaming-of-good-old-times-when-you-needed-16-wins-for-second-place-extended-graph is here. Give me your love! [and if you happen to find a Bitcoin in the upholstery of your third Bugatti...you now where my postbox is!]
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1 pointYou mean assuming Terunofuji is back? Or are you thinking Onosato? Keep in mind that it's Hatsu Basho, so a M17 will throw his hat in the ring.
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1 pointThere were 4 Ozeki on the Hatsu 1988 banzuke, one of whom eventually made Yokozuna (Asahifuji), one who famously narrowly missed (Konishiki), and two who were well past their prime. There have been 33 subsequent Ozeki, including the 3 current ones. Eleven of these rikishi reached the highest rank, for a career success rate of roughly 1 in 3. Between them, these men collected 44 Ozeki yusho which started a potential tsuna run; however, only nine of these runs were converted into a promotion, and only Terunofuji got the nod without a second consecutive yusho. If we instead consider the start of a run to be 13+ wins, there were 59 such Ozeki basho; again, nine of these were converted. Of course, there were some pretty crazy misses in the post-Futahagaro days, including Takanohana's 14-1 Y 13-2 J, Musashimaru's 12-3 J 15-0 Y, and Hakuho's 14-1 Y 13-2 J, that would very likely result in promotion today. Still, only something like 1 in 5 to 1 in 6 runs resulted in promotion. The laws of probability suggest that two at once is unlikely indeed, much as I'd love to see it.
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1 pointM9e, M9w, M9e-haridashi-1, M9w-haridashi-1, M9e-haridashi-2....