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I'm new and I have a few questions already!


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#26 Jejima

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 14:25

I can't afford to play that sumo game hover interesting it is, I have a lot of study to do but I find Sumo a good way to de-stress!


There are many sumo games to play! I am sure that at least one or two would appeal to you, and fit in with your study schedule. Most of the regular posters here play several of them. Try starting with http://isp.sumogames.com/ (the oldest running game, I think) - that takes only a couple of seconds to play each day during a basho (oops, make that about 10 seconds, as you also need to log in). So, as there are 6 basho a year, and 15 days to each basho, you would need 900 seconds or 15 minutes in total of your life, to play this game for a whole year. (Sigh...)

Also, if you really want to understand about promotions / demotions in sumo etc, try out Moti's (Kintamayama) excellent post-basho game, 'Guess the Banzuke'... http://www.dichne.com/Guess.htm
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#27 Orion

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 14:50


Randomitsuki, thank you again for your response! When you say they rise in ranks within their division, how many ranks are there inside Jonokuchi, Jonidan, Sandanme, and Makushita? Does it depend on how many rikishis are in that division?

Short answer: yes. Long answer - check the banzuke at aforementioned Sumo Reference, and you can see how the size of divisions fluctuates. Makushita and Sandanme change size less often than Jonidan and Jonokuchi. Each division has as many ranks as number of rikishi divided by 2 (each rank has one rikishi on "east" and another on "west" side).


Why do I get the impression that this person is trying to write a basic sumo article on the cheap? The answers to all of these questions could have been so easily found by somebody doing genuine searches.

FWIW

#28 Pandaazuma

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 17:20



Randomitsuki, thank you again for your response! When you say they rise in ranks within their division, how many ranks are there inside Jonokuchi, Jonidan, Sandanme, and Makushita? Does it depend on how many rikishis are in that division?

Short answer: yes. Long answer - check the banzuke at aforementioned Sumo Reference, and you can see how the size of divisions fluctuates. Makushita and Sandanme change size less often than Jonidan and Jonokuchi. Each division has as many ranks as number of rikishi divided by 2 (each rank has one rikishi on "east" and another on "west" side).


Why do I get the impression that this person is trying to write a basic sumo article on the cheap? The answers to all of these questions could have been so easily found by somebody doing genuine searches.

FWIW


Ozumo Fan originally wrote to me by email with many questions so I told him to join this site. Actually this thread is quite interesting...so what is the problem? And even if he is trying to write an article 'on the cheap', who cares? why not? Even newbie threads can teach new stuff!! Especially to idiots like me! Let's not be mean-spirited.

To Ozumo fan...join the games...it is definitely one of the best ways to learn about sumo. I used to think I knew quite a lot about sumo, but my sumo gaming peers humble me daily!

Edited by Pandaazuma, 22 March 2012 - 17:22.


#29 Ozekifan

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 05:18



Randomitsuki, thank you again for your response! When you say they rise in ranks within their division, how many ranks are there inside Jonokuchi, Jonidan, Sandanme, and Makushita? Does it depend on how many rikishis are in that division?

Short answer: yes. Long answer - check the banzuke at aforementioned Sumo Reference, and you can see how the size of divisions fluctuates. Makushita and Sandanme change size less often than Jonidan and Jonokuchi. Each division has as many ranks as number of rikishi divided by 2 (each rank has one rikishi on "east" and another on "west" side).


Why do I get the impression that this person is trying to write a basic sumo article on the cheap? The answers to all of these questions could have been so easily found by somebody doing genuine searches.

FWIW


Hi Orion, I'm sorry but you have a wrong impression of me. Some of these answers could not have been easily found, sometimes only a conversation could draw out some facts hidden deep within. Genuine searches also depends on how nice Google is to you sometimes, I have done research to the best of my ability from reading the websites the nice members here had shown me and have read through Sumo books, but sometimes the fine detail could only be found from asking.

Me: Tell me of what you know about Sumo so far?
Orion: Why?
Me: I wish to learn.
Orion: Do some genuine search.
Me: I would rather have a good conversation.
Orion: Why?
Me: Because we are both fans of Sumo, no?

Be well, all!

#30 Ozekifan

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:20

By the way, does anybody know what a 'shusse hiro' look like? It is a ceremony for which Maezumo are formally introduced where they borrow a kesho mawashi from a sekitori wrestler in their stable or form their oyakata. I can find no youtube videos of it, even when using Japanese text.

Thank you.

Edited by Ozekifan, 24 March 2012 - 06:52.


#31 Asashosakari

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:29

Actually, "maezumo shusse" brings up quite a few such videos...

Edit: So does "shusse" alone, in fact.


Edit edit: And I might as well say it, I guess - I'm quite puzzled by the incongruity between your lack of research skills and your remarkable speed of learning. For one thing, I don't think I've ever seen anybody who went from apparently complete ignorance of anything below makuuchi even existing, to discussing the intricacies of lower-division promotion patterns, in just a couple of days.

Edited by Asashosakari, 24 March 2012 - 06:42.


#32 Ozekifan

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:56

Ok thanks, because I typed in Shusse hiro from the book "The Big Book of Sumo".

I'll take your last bit as a compliment! I've been burying myself with a load of Sumo books, such as "Sumo - the pocket guide" and "The Big book of Sumo", and reading a few more in detail!

#33 Ozekifan

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:35

Another interesting question, when I typed 白鵬 in Google Translate, why does it not read 'Hakuho' in the pronunciation?

Be well, all.

#34 Doitsuyama

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:04

Another interesting question, when I typed 白鵬 in Google Translate, why does it not read 'Hakuho' in the pronunciation?

Be well, all.

Because Hakuho is not a translation, but a transcription. It's Google translate after all, so it tries to translate everything it doesn't recognize as a name, and even the most wellknown shikona doesn't seem to be a part of a name database.

#35 Asashosakari

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:27

Because Hakuho is not a translation, but a transcription. It's Google translate after all, so it tries to translate everything it doesn't recognize as a name, and even the most wellknown shikona doesn't seem to be a part of a name database.

Google Translate seems pretty bad with names all around. Honyaku is much better, although generic looking shikona (including, at this date, 白鵬) aren't recognized by that engine either. Or, more likely, it just hasn't been updated in a while...a few years ago, a lot more makuuchi regulars' shikona were recognized correctly.


Ok thanks, because I typed in Shusse hiro from the book "The Big Book of Sumo".

"Hiro" 披露 just means announcement, introduction, so while shusse hiro is technically the full term, it's kind of redundant, much like adding "bout" to the title of a bout video on Youtube would be.

Edited by Asashosakari, 24 March 2012 - 10:30.


#36 Ozekifan

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:40

Ah I see, thank you guys for the wise input once again!

Another question I have, when a Jonokuchi Rikishi goes out in winter, are there certain clothes he is limited to wearing, e.g. a jacket over his Yukata? And does he still have to wear only a pair of Geta in the freezing cold?

Be well, all!

#37 Yubinhaad

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 15:36


Because Hakuho is not a translation, but a transcription. It's Google translate after all, so it tries to translate everything it doesn't recognize as a name, and even the most wellknown shikona doesn't seem to be a part of a name database.


Google Translate seems pretty bad with names all around.


The way around that is to click the 'Read phonetically' button [Ä], which then provides a phonetic reading below the entry box while still providing the literal translation to the right. It's not perfect by any means, but it's still useful.

Edited by Yubinhaad, 06 April 2012 - 19:20.


#38 Mark.Buckton

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 01:42



Randomitsuki, thank you again for your response! When you say they rise in ranks within their division, how many ranks are there inside Jonokuchi, Jonidan, Sandanme, and Makushita? Does it depend on how many rikishis are in that division?

Short answer: yes. Long answer - check the banzuke at aforementioned Sumo Reference, and you can see how the size of divisions fluctuates. Makushita and Sandanme change size less often than Jonidan and Jonokuchi. Each division has as many ranks as number of rikishi divided by 2 (each rank has one rikishi on "east" and another on "west" side).


Why do I get the impression that this person is trying to write a basic sumo article on the cheap? The answers to all of these questions could have been so easily found by somebody doing genuine searches.

FWIW


I think we should be more accommodating when people come asking questions to be honest. We were all in that position once.

And actually, from an interview you gave a while ago with Tony M. I think he paraphrased you as referring to your own early days as saying -

'Junior officials were a useful source of information, and happy to be quizzed on the finer points of sumo. Some 30 years later some are still good friends.'

#39 Ozekifan

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 05:16

Thanks for the approval guys!

More:

How do rikishi address their Oyakata? Do they call him Sensei or simply Oyakata?

And is there a specific name for the white looking shinto altar (perhaps?) that is in the middle of the dohyo? Why is it in the middle of the ring, and who removes it before training and who puts it back on? How do they put it back in the ring?

Thank you once more.

Edited by Ozekifan, 25 March 2012 - 08:02.


#40 Orion

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 02:55

I think we should be more accommodating when people come asking questions to be honest. We were all in that position once.

And actually, from an interview you gave a while ago with Tony M. I think he paraphrased you as referring to your own early days as saying -

'Junior officials were a useful source of information, and happy to be quizzed on the finer points of sumo. Some 30 years later some are still good friends.'


Thirty-eight years ago there were very few good English books on sumo, Sumo World had just started up (and I was already finding mistakes in it), there was, of course, no Internet; the only way I could find to genuinely learn about sumo was to be there watching and taking notes, and to ask questions politely in Japanese. I am still amazed at the rapid progress being made by our new friend. About the shusse, it is always referred to shinjo shusse hiro in Japanese (sorry on this PC I can't find the kanji or macrons) .

#41 Mark.Buckton

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:48


I think we should be more accommodating when people come asking questions to be honest. We were all in that position once.

And actually, from an interview you gave a while ago with Tony M. I think he paraphrased you as referring to your own early days as saying -

'Junior officials were a useful source of information, and happy to be quizzed on the finer points of sumo. Some 30 years later some are still good friends.'


I am still amazed at the rapid progress being made by our new friend. About the shusse, it is always referred to shinjo shusse hiro in Japanese



I think this goes to show how much people can learn when others are willing to share as opposed to being cynical and wondering if they are after something for nothing. (Nodding yes...)


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