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Painful Banzuke-Drops


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#1 Vikanohara

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 14:14

http://sumoreference...shi.aspx?r=1204

Kakizoe close to intai ?
When will we see this happen ?
What point is there to continue ?

His results since 2010 :
2010.01 : 6-9 at M4e
2010.03 : 7-8 at M7w
2010.05 : 7-8 at M8e
2010.07 : 3-12 at M9w
2010.09 : 3-12 at M15w
2010.11 : 7-8 at J7e
2011.01 : 4-11 at J9w
2011.05 : 3-4 at Ms1w
2011.07 : 1-14 at J11w
2011.09 : 4-3 at Ms9e
2011.11 : 1-6 at Ms6w
2012.01 : 3-4 at Ms16w
2012.03 : 0-4 at Ms22w

I've never seen someone drop away so heavily. Okay, there's also Ryuo who went from M8w to Ms51e in two years time, but at least he threw in a couple of KK in the meantime. Satoyama dropped from M12w to Ms14e in one year after 2-13, 6-9, 6-9, 6-9, 2-5 & 3-4. He then won a Makushita Yusho and went up & down in upper half of Makushita (Ms3-Ms30) for three years before finally becoming a Sekitori again. And I also recall Ryuho : from M16e to Ms8e after 4-11, 7-8, 7-8, 8-7, 4-11, 6-9, 5-10 & 3-4. Three years later, he reached Juryo again, but he's almost a year off the dohyo now.

Do you recall more like these who still kept hanging on and perhaps finally made it back up there ?
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#2 Vikanohara

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:58

Hmm, seems there are many more eyes on the ones leaping forward than on those that suffer a huge setback.
Not that surprising of course. But I at least had expected to find at least one soulmate on the sumo helter-skelter. :-/
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#3 Yubinhaad

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:55

Hmm, seems there are many more eyes on the ones leaping forward than on those that suffer a huge setback.
Not that surprising of course. But I at least had expected to find at least one soulmate on the sumo helter-skelter. :-/


I think the problem with speculation about Kakizoe's future is that it really is 100% speculation. I don't think anyone quite knows if he's in line for a toshiyori somewhere down the line (and therefore able to stay in ozumo as an oyakata), or whether he's simply hanging on for as long as he possibly can for his own reasons.

As Kintamayama reported a year ago in this thread, Kakizoe has many injuries. Some rikishi - Hokutokuni, for example - plunge down the banzuke after suffering a serious injury which requires a long absence (and in his case, surgery) for recovery. When the injury is healed, such a rikishi can then fight his way back up because he is clearly a class above those lower reaches of the banzuke.

I've no doubt that a fully fit Kakizoe would be the same - 43 consecutive Makuuchi basho proves his ability and consistency. But unfortunately for him, he isn't fully fit and is now the wrong side of 30, and I would hazard a guess that his injuries are of the chronic variety, which is to say they probably aren't going to get better with time. Maybe he carries on simply because he loves it, or because he hasn't given up hope of fighting his way back up, putting on the kesho-mawashi once again and erasing the memory of his last performance in the Juryo division. Either motivation is worthy of cheer. :-)

Edit: Just looking at Kakizoe's career record, I see he was injured already when he first entered and had to sit out his Tsukedashi debut basho. Anyone recall what that injury was?

Edited by Yubinhaad, 19 March 2012 - 02:57.


#4 Asashosakari

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 05:39

Edit: Just looking at Kakizoe's career record, I see he was injured already when he first entered and had to sit out his Tsukedashi debut basho. Anyone recall what that injury was?

Left knee ACL injury suffered at the amateur sumo world championships in Dec 2000; he opted for surgery. From what I'm reading he was up for his tsukedashi start all the way from Haru 2001, but it got delayed several times. By September he had to start (well, "start"), as Kyushu basho wasn't covered by the one-year eligibility period for either of his two qualifying victories.

#5 Yubinhaad

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 14:56

Left knee ACL injury suffered at the amateur sumo world championships in Dec 2000; he opted for surgery. From what I'm reading he was up for his tsukedashi start all the way from Haru 2001, but it got delayed several times. By September he had to start (well, "start"), as Kyushu basho wasn't covered by the one-year eligibility period for either of his two qualifying victories.


Thank you. Sensible decision, much better than letting the qualification lapse and having to start from mae-zumo.

#6 Vikanohara

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 21:25

Kimurayama looked like he was finally going to turn things around, earlier this basho. But once again, it might turn out into a small MK, like when he was hanging on in Makuuchi. It would be his 8th in a row. Since he got promoted to Makuuchi, he finished MK 15 out of 21 basho, of which 13 in Makuuchi. And now that Juryo also seems to be getting hard, Makushita is near. Will he be able to avoid to further drop away ?
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#7 Vikanohara

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 09:22

So Kakizoe finished 0-7, but Kimurayama managed to turn things around for at least a bit with that 8-7 and thus not his 8th MK in a row.
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#8 wanderer

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 18:28

Very sad to hear that Kakizoe went down so far. I liked him a lot. He reached Kumusubi, I guess, and used to fight like mini Asashoryu.

Best wishes to him.

#9 yorikiried by fate

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 18:35

I beg to differ. Mini-Asashoryu was and will be eternally: Hokutoriki!
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#10 Asojima

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 18:48

I beg to differ. Mini-Asashoryu was and will be eternally: Hokutoriki!

Asashoryu-wise, Hokutoriki was as mini as you could get. He wouldn't have known a technique if it bit him in the butt.
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#11 yorikiried by fate

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 19:29

Sure, but the gaze, the bearing!
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#12 wanderer

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 22:18

I beg to differ. Mini-Asashoryu was and will be eternally: Hokutoriki!

Hokutoriki was at least as big as Asashoryu.

#13 ronnie

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:03

Hokutoriki's tallest recorded height was 183 cm and heaviest 153 kg.

Asa tallest was 185 cm with 148 kg as his heaviest.

That makes Hokutoriki an overweight midget compared to Asa!

#14 yorikiried by fate

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 05:53

Whatever you infidels say. The Dark Side was with him!
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#15 Yubinhaad

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 23:50

TV program about Kakizoe's recent slide down the banzuke. It seems he's suffering from a left foot injury, as you can see during the video when he compares the movement he has between his feet.

Edit: Damn it! Now this one's been made private as well. >:-(

Edited by Yubinhaad, 28 April 2012 - 11:32.


#16 Treblemaker

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 04:22

Sad to see.

As in most sports, or anything that requires precise body movement, footwork is everything. Missing is the speed and ability to be more agile than his competitors. Still, Kakezoe's missing more than just footwork. He appears to have lost a lot of upper body strength.

But clearly, his balance is off. He's losing bouts he would have won not too many months ago.

Sad.
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#17 Dr.Radical

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:09

Ah geez, why did you have to show that? The worst part is his little kid following him down the tunnel saying "ganbarimashta yo!" :-(

#18 Jakusotsu

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:44

Kakizoe's wife looks like she's had her share of martial arts as well (judging by the nose). Anyone here knowing her background?
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#19 Asashosakari

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 18:28

Kakizoe's wife looks like she's had her share of martial arts as well (judging by the nose). Anyone here knowing her background?

Former shin-zumo wrestler, assuming it's still the same wife.

#20 Jakusotsu

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 06:46

Former shin-zumo wrestler, assuming it's still the same wife.

Definitely the same wife, and I really ought to have remembered that conversation. (Wearing a paperbag...)
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#21 Kintamayama

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:06

Aaand, retired.

I am retroactive.
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