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Tochinonada intai


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#1 Asashosakari

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 06:50

As mentioned here, Tochinonada has declared his intai following yesterday's likely demotion-clinching 11th loss. He remains in the Kyokai as Takenawa-oyakata; unfortunately the current holder of the name, ex-Yotsukasa, does not. (Neener, neener...)

#2 sashimaru

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 08:32

och nada (Neener, neener...)
happy tachiai,
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#3 Vikanohara

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 10:09

So that's already 1 gone from the Then & Now poll.
7 still surviving.

I notice Tochinonada has gathered quite some kinboshi throughout his career.
Sure one of the most of the ones that were still around, no ?

#4 Flohru

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 10:32

So that's already 1 gone from the Then & Now poll.
7 still surviving.

I notice Tochinonada has gathered quite some kinboshi throughout his career.
Sure one of the most of the ones that were still around, no ?

12 were indeed the most of all active rikishi and puts him in a tie for second place all-time together with Takamiyama (Akinoshima holds the record with 16).
Actually there are not too many active rikishi with kinboshi at all thanks to Hakuho's (and Asashoryu's) dominance against Maegashira opponents.
Here is the list (hopefully I missed no one):
7: Aminishiki
3: Kisenosato
2: Kokkai, Kyokutenho, Miyabiyama, Takamisakari
1: Goeido, Hakuho, Harumafuji, Shotenro, Toyonoshima

Edited by Flohru, 22 January 2012 - 10:34.


#5 Borislav

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 10:57

How do you make a query in the database for kinboshi? I tried after seeing his record, but could not figure it out. I wanted to check which is the lowest basho record including a kinboshi.

#6 Naganoyama

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 11:21

So that's already 1 gone from the Then & Now poll.
7 still surviving.

I notice Tochinonada has gathered quite some kinboshi throughout his career.
Sure one of the most of the ones that were still around, no ?

12 were indeed the most of all active rikishi and puts him in a tie for second place all-time together with Takamiyama (Akinoshima holds the record with 16).
Actually there are not too many active rikishi with kinboshi at all thanks to Hakuho's (and Asashoryu's) dominance against Maegashira opponents.
Here is the list (hopefully I missed no one):
7: Aminishiki
3: Kisenosato
2: Kokkai, Kyokutenho, Miyabiyama, Takamisakari
1: Goeido, Hakuho, Harumafuji, Shotenro, Toyonoshima


Wakanosato has 2

#7 mokele

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 11:23

As mentioned here, Tochinonada has declared his intai following yesterday's likely demotion-clinching 11th loss. He remains in the Kyokai as Takenawa-oyakata; unfortunately the current holder of the name, ex-Yotsukasa, does not. :-S

I figured that he would retire after the 2012 Hatsu basho. He just was unable to defend properly against oshi-zumo attacks anymore. I will miss his left hand inside grip nage. It was a unique style.

#8 ilovesumo

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 11:41

First Rikishi I "stumbled" over - first time I fell out the train in Ryougoku. Man was I nervous... ^^
Great he stays.
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#9 yorikiried by fate

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 14:05

How do you make a query in the database for kinboshi?


It's mega simple. Look at this example.

I wanted to check which is the lowest basho record including a kinboshi.


The second part, I don't know, since I'm not sure what you mean.

Edited by yorikiried by fate, 22 January 2012 - 14:07.

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#10 Otokonoyama

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 14:12

I wanted to check which is the lowest basho record including a kinboshi.

The second part, I don't know, since I'm not sure what you mean.

I guess he means he wants to know what the worst tournament record is for a rikishi who also achieved a kinboshi in the same basho. i.e. 1-14, with a kinboshi

#11 Flohru

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 14:24

I wanted to check which is the lowest basho record including a kinboshi.

The second part, I don't know, since I'm not sure what you mean.

I guess he means he wants to know what the worst tournament record is for a rikishi who also achieved a kinboshi in the same basho. i.e. 1-14, with a kinboshi

I don't know how to perform a search for that query but I'm pretty sure that record belongs to Shotenro.

OTOH I think Borislav meant something else, namely what was the basho with the lowest number of rikishi active that have earned one or more career kinboshi. That was something I wondered too while writing my last post, but again I have no clue how to search the Doitsubase for it.

#12 Asojima

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 15:47

If he means who was the lowest ranked rikishi to earn a kinboshi, I recall Onishiki who won his first of 8 at M11w in 1973 during his first basho in Makuuchi. Despite this record, he never made it past komosubi. I'm not sure if he is the lowest, but he is noteworthy.

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#13 Yubinhaad

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Posted 22 January 2012 - 16:18

The lowest-ranked kinboshi winner was Komatsuyama, who defeated Minanogawa on Day 4 of 1941 Hatsu at the rank of Maegashira 14w. Minanogawa had also given up a kinboshi on the previous day to Sadogashima, ranked at Maegashira 12w, and in the previous basho to Saganohana at Maegashira 13e.

After retiring, Komatsuyama opened Kabutoyama-beya in November 1946 and closed it in May 1947, maybe one of the shortest-lived heya ever?

The last rikishi ranked below M10 to win a kinboshi was Kotonishiki, who defeated Takanohana on Day 13 of 1998 Kyushu at the rank of Maegashira 12w, on the way to winning the yusho.

Meanwhile, Tochinonada's retirement leaves Aminishiki as the sole active rikishi to have won kinboshi from four different Yokozuna.

#14 Vikanohara

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:59

How do you make a query in the database for kinboshi?

It's mega simple. Look at this example.

That seems to also count fusen wins against Yokozuna.
And Tochinonada seems to have had two consecutive. :-P

Edited by Vikanohara, 23 January 2012 - 10:00.


#15 Borislav

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 10:37

Haha, I had no idea that I asked my question in such an ambiguos way.

I meant, what is the lowest tournament record of a guy that has kinboshi, it seems it is Shotenro in Aki 2009 with 2-13 and a win over Hakuho.

PS: Sorry for making so much offtopic. Can we make a separate thread with such sumo trivia, where people can ask questions and others more knowledgeable with the database can answer?

#16 yorikiried by fate

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 11:19

How do you make a query in the database for kinboshi?

It's mega simple. Look at this example.

That seems to also count fusen wins against Yokozuna.
And Tochinonada seems to have had two consecutive. :-P


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#17 Asanomeshi

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 21:09

As would be obvious from my profile/avatar, I am pretty bummed about Nada's retirement. It was so sudden too, no warning, just an announcement when he took the Fusenpai on the last day... Incidentally by taking a fusenpai his final numbers for career record ended up at 699 wins vs. 700 losses. Hard to believe a guy that good actually had such parity in losses and wins, but I suppose that's what happens if you stick it out for a long time even after you are well past your prime.

I was well aware he was number 2 (or tied anyway) on the kinboshi list and a while back I still entertained hope that he would get a chance for a few more. Ah well.

So long, Nada. I think he will make a great coach.

Edited by Asanomeshi, 24 January 2012 - 21:12.

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#18 Asanomeshi

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 21:12

When kinboshi are mentioned it makes me think of the newspaper. At least once or twice I have seen an English newspaper describe a sanyaku win over a yokozuna as a kinboshi. Kind of annoying. As a matter of fact, just recently the Daily Yomiuri described Kakryu's win over Hakuho thusly. Maybe they don't do it out of ignorance, but for poetic purposes, but I wish they wouldn't.
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#19 Otokonoyama

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 22:31

When kinboshi are mentioned it makes me think of the newspaper. At least once or twice I have seen an English newspaper describe a sanyaku win over a yokozuna as a kinboshi. Kind of annoying. As a matter of fact, just recently the Daily Yomiuri described Kakryu's win over Hakuho thusly. Maybe they don't do it out of ignorance, but for poetic purposes, but I wish they wouldn't.

I have a vague recollection of those being sometimes, perhaps informally, described as ginboshi.

#20 Jaak

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 22:49

I have a vague recollection of those being sometimes, perhaps informally, described as ginboshi.

I have a vague recollection of "ginboshi" being applied to maegashira victories over ozeki.

#21 Asanomeshi

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 23:27

Ginboshi are indeed maegashira victories over ozeki, but are of course not official.
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#22 Asashosakari

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 06:55

Incidentally by taking a fusenpai his final numbers for career record ended up at 699 wins vs. 700 losses. Hard to believe a guy that good actually had such parity in losses and wins, but I suppose that's what happens if you stick it out for a long time even after you are well past your prime.

669 wins, not 699. It's a pretty standard record for somebody with his career profile - lots of time spent in the meatgrinder as an above-average rikishi for that area, but he wasn't so good that he was a sanyaku regular (just eight basho) and would have amassed enough of a positive win-loss differential to "survive" the negative differential on the downhill slide, as e.g. Tosanoumi (20 sanyaku basho) almost did - he was still positive until his final basho, finishing with -3 after his swan song 4-11.

#23 Asanomeshi

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 10:07

Incidentally by taking a fusenpai his final numbers for career record ended up at 699 wins vs. 700 losses. Hard to believe a guy that good actually had such parity in losses and wins, but I suppose that's what happens if you stick it out for a long time even after you are well past your prime.

669 wins, not 699. It's a pretty standard record for somebody with his career profile - lots of time spent in the meatgrinder as an above-average rikishi for that area, but he wasn't so good that he was a sanyaku regular (just eight basho) and would have amassed enough of a positive win-loss differential to "survive" the negative differential on the downhill slide, as e.g. Tosanoumi (20 sanyaku basho) almost did - he was still positive until his final basho, finishing with -3 after his swan song 4-11.


Whoops, yep 669.
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#24 Fujisan

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 20:10

Another wolfpack regular hangs up his mawashi... (Shaking head...)

Enjoy your intai Nada.... (Chucking salt...)
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