Jump to content

 

Photo

Takashima beya folds


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Kintamayama

Kintamayama

    Shimpai-nai

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,858 posts

Posted 17 June 2011 - 09:39

Takashima beya is closing and its rikishi, tokoyama, gyoji and and yobidashi (one of each..) will be moving to Kasugayama beya. That leaves us with 49 active heyas, dropping under the fifty mark for the first time in 14 years. Takashima beya was re-established in 1993 but never really got off the ground and these last three years had 1-2 rikishi popuilating it. at present, one rikishi from Jonokuchi, Komori. The Kyokai still has to confrm this, but they will..
The Daitenshou firing scandal didn't help either.

Edited by Kintamayama, 17 June 2011 - 22:04.

What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic and a dyslexic?

A guy who is up all night arguing with himself over whether or not there is a dog.

Download my sumo toolbar - http://dichne.ourtoolbar.com/
post-62-1171731969.gif


#2 Yubinhaad

Yubinhaad

    Ozeki

  • Regular Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,614 posts

Posted 17 June 2011 - 12:07

Takashima beya is closing and its rikishi, tokoyama, gyoji and and yobidashi (one of each..) are moving to Kasugayama beya. That leaves us with 49 active heyas, dropping under the fifty mark for the first time in 14 years. Takashima beya was established in 1993 but never really got off the ground and these last three years had 1-2 rikishi popuilating it. at present, one rikishi from Jonokuchi, Komori.
The Daitenshou firing scandal didn't help either.

Is Takashima-oyakata also going to Kasugayama-beya?

#3 Kintamayama

Kintamayama

    Shimpai-nai

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,858 posts

Posted 17 June 2011 - 16:12

Ok-reason-the only deshi retired. No use going on there..

What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic and a dyslexic?

A guy who is up all night arguing with himself over whether or not there is a dog.

Download my sumo toolbar - http://dichne.ourtoolbar.com/
post-62-1171731969.gif


#4 Kintamayama

Kintamayama

    Shimpai-nai

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,858 posts

Posted 17 June 2011 - 22:08

For completeness- before its current shape, the "old" Takashima beya had a Yokozuna, Yoshibayama and an Ozeki - Mitsuneyama. In 1982, ex-Mitsuneyama unexpectedly closed the heya begging the question'- can anyone tell us boys and girls what happened?
OK, I know -nothing sinister- he fell ill and the heya was absorbed in Kumagatani-beya.

Edited by Kintamayama, 17 June 2011 - 22:11.

What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic and a dyslexic?

A guy who is up all night arguing with himself over whether or not there is a dog.

Download my sumo toolbar - http://dichne.ourtoolbar.com/
post-62-1171731969.gif


#5 Asashosakari

Asashosakari

    Sumo is a very good thing. Though better with affordable video.

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,452 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 02:57

(warning: looooong)

For completeness- before its current shape, the "old" Takashima beya had a Yokozuna, Yoshibayama and an Ozeki - Mitsuneyama. In 1982, ex-Mitsuneyama unexpectedly closed the heya ...

Actually, Yoshibayama was in the old-old Takashima, not the old one. One of the more convoluted progressions of events in heya lore...

I'm not quite sure when the old-old Takashima was founded...sometime in the late 1910s probably, by Taninooto, a former sekiwake of then-powerhouse Ikazuchi-beya. I believe he was working in Minatogawa-beya at the time of his branch-out, taking a few rikishi with him. One of them was maegashira Hakkozan who, however, wasn't an orginal recruiting of Taninooto - Hakkozan had been deposited in Minatogawa-beya when his shisho, the 6th Wakamatsu (a gyoji, incidentally) died in late 1916. In any case, Taninooto's reign as heya owner was short-lived as he too died soon after, in July 1921.

Hakkozan retired from active competition and took over the nascent stable, building it to respectability over the next 30 years and raising sekiwake Terunobori and several maegashira. He also recruited the aforementioned Mitsuneyama and Yoshibayama, whose highest honours he would not live to see, however. (Yoshibayama earned his ozeki promotion in the basho that started a few days after his shisho's death.) We could end the story here, but that's obviously not the convoluted part yet, despite Hakkozan's multiple heya changes.

At this point we have to take a detour to a completely different stable, Tomozuna-beya. This one dates back even further, having been founded around 1890 by still-active maegashira Kaizan, formerly a sekiwake in Osaka before jumping to Tokyo-zumo at nearly 30 years old. He raised yokozuna Tachiyama and ozeki Kunimiyama (among more than a dozen rikishi that reached makuuchi) and built Tomozuna into one of the most pre-eminent stables not named Dewanoumi in the early 1900s. Aged 66, he ended his Kyokai career in May 1921 - his career profile at the Takayama site says the direct cause was his anger about the then-Kimura Shonosuke (#17) misjudging one of his deshi's bouts.

The Tomozuna kabu and heya were passed on to one of his younger deshi, active future komusubi Yahazuyama, who would go on to run the stable for 25 years, albeit without returning it to its former high-profile status. He closed Tomozuna-beya down in 1947 and went to work in Tatsunami-beya for the rest of his career. The highest rank reached by one of his recruits turned out to be komusubi as well, in the shape of Tomoegata, his future son-in-law, and now we're finally getting close to the convoluted parts. Retiring from the dohyo in 1940 Tomoegata quickly set out on his own, founding Tamagaki-beya less than a year later. (Incidentally, one of the biggest heya names from the late 18th to mid-19th century, but a history presumably long forgotten even by 1940.)

The name of the stable changed to Ajigawa-beya a few years after, and another decade later the two stories finally flow together - when ex-Hakkozan died in 1951, his Takashima-beya and Tomoegata's Ajigawa-beya were merged under the prestigious Takashima name. (No, we're not done yet.) Hakkozan's promising deshi Yoshibayama would go on to yokozuna and Mitsuneyama to ozeki under Tomoegata's leadership a few years later.

We jump to early 1960 when Mitsuneyama ended his 23-year career, 37 years old and five years removed from losing his ozeki rank. He took on the Kumagatani kabu and, much like his second shisho had done 20 years earlier, founded his own heya almost immediately. At this point the most unlikely of participants intervene in the story - Kyokai regulations. In what IIRC had been in the works for several years (yes, reforms have always been slow to come...), oyakata and other Kyokai personnel were finally made subject to the public 65-year-old retirement age limit, effective at the beginning of 1961. One of the oldest active oyakata to be affected by it was ex-Yahazuyama, Tomozuna-oyakata who'd just turned 72 prior to his enforced retirement.

His kabu now free, Yahazuyama's son-in-law Tomoegata decided to honor him by switching his kabu and renaming Takashima-beya to Tomozuna-beya after Haru 1961, bringing together the stable he was running with the name of the stable he himself had been fighting for in the 1930s. I imagine that renaming such a well-regarded stable, just a few years removed from having a yokozuna in it, wasn't the most uncontroversial decision of those days (even if the new name had some history behind it as well).

So that's the (name-wise) end of the old-old Takashima-beya - what about the old one? Well, Mitsuneyama, apparently not unhappy (I guess...) to see the Takashima name become available by such an odd event, decided to switch kabu immediately as well and renamed his freshly-founded stable from Kumagatani to Takashima, essentially mimicking Tomoegata in bringing his old active heya name to a new one he was in charge of. So, while there was a Takashima-beya on the banzuke for both Haru and Natsu 1961, they were completely different stables. (Just imagine if e.g. after the recent renaming of long-running and successful Musashigawa-beya to Fujishima, suddenly some other, lesser stable like Irumagawa somehow took on the Musashigawa name. Chaos, cats and dogs living together, etc.) Mitsuneyama's Takashima-beya can't lay claim to the careers of Yoshibayama or himself, but he did bring up ozeki Daiju, he of the notorious juryo appearance.

Tomoegata's Tomozuna-beya is the same one we have now, and it has stayed in the family ever since - his successor Ichinishiki was Tomoegata's brother-in-law, and the current shisho, ex-Kaiki, is Ichinishiki's son-in-law. They can't quite claim to be a 4th-generation stable as it's not the same Tomozuna-beya as the one Yahazuyama was in charge of, but it's still quite an impressive lineage. And of course it does have the Takashima history going back to the 1910s as well.

As Kinta already mentioned, when Mitsuneyama closed up shop after 20 years in 1982, his reconstituted Takashima-beya was folded into another Kumagatani-beya in another small quirk of history - this one had been founded out of Tomozuna-beya by Yoshinomine, to whom Mitsuneyama had been anideshi in their active days, so their two stables were descended from the same "parent". Sadly, when Yoshinomine reached the retirement age and his Kumagatani-beya was wound up in preparation, it was merged into Tatsunami-beya, not Tomozuna-beya which would have brought the two Takashima lines completely back together at last.

For completeness - the shisho of the just-folded Takashima-beya, ex-Koboyama, indeed made his debut out of the preceding (Mitsuneyama's) Takashima-beya, and had just reached makuuchi when the heya closed. He would eventually reach sekiwake while in Kumagatani-beya, and picked up his former shisho's Takashima name after retiring in 1990. (Mitsuneyama had left the Kyokai in 1985, two years earlier than required. Incidentally, the Takashima name was then briefly used by Kaiki from 1987-89 prior to his takeover of Tomozuna-beya.) Koboyama founded the third modern iteration of Takashima-beya in 1993, albeit never bringing it to the same prominence as the earlier two - his highest-ranking rikishi was, ironically, Daitensho. Maybe somebody will give it another shot sometime; even with the dreadfulness of the last ~5 years it's still a very prestigious name. (Not Kasugayama-oyakata though, he's yet another case of somebody re-establishing his former home stable, so he has exactly the kabu he wants. The previous Kasugayama-beya was merged into Ajigawa-beya when the shisho turned 65.)

Edited by Asashosakari, 18 June 2011 - 03:35.


#6 Kintamayama

Kintamayama

    Shimpai-nai

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,858 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 05:50

(warning: looooong)

For completeness- before its current shape, the "old" Takashima beya had a Yokozuna, Yoshibayama and an Ozeki - Mitsuneyama. In 1982, ex-Mitsuneyama unexpectedly closed the heya ...

Actually, Yoshibayama was in the old-old Takashima, not the old one. One of the more convoluted progressions of events in heya lore...etc..

You took the (lot of) words right out of my mouth.. (I am not worthy...) Talk about "completeness"..

Edited by Kintamayama, 18 June 2011 - 05:52.

What do you get when you cross an insomniac, an agnostic and a dyslexic?

A guy who is up all night arguing with himself over whether or not there is a dog.

Download my sumo toolbar - http://dichne.ourtoolbar.com/
post-62-1171731969.gif


#7 Orion

Orion

    Komusubi

  • Regular Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 990 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 06:32

Actually, Yoshibayama was in the old-old Takashima, not the old one. One of the more convoluted progressions of events in heya lore...

Tomoegata's Tomozuna-beya is the same one we have now, and it has stayed in the family ever since - his successor Ichinishiki was Tomoegata's brother-in-law, and the current shisho, ex-Kaiki, is Ichinishiki's son-in-law. They can't quite claim to be a 4th-generation stable as it's not the same Tomozuna-beya as the one Yahazuyama was in charge of, but it's still quite an impressive lineage. And of course it does have the Takashima history going back to the 1910s as well.


1) and Yoshibayama branched out and set up Miyagino. I've always regretted the name change of its gyoji S. Kindayu from his original Yoshinosuke -- he was recruited, he once told me, in Yoshibayama's final days, and the master gave him that 'Yoshi--'.

2) Tomoegata's heya building is still here in Ryogoku Nichome, up a side street. When I moved here in 1978 he was not so long retired. The heya contents (including deshi) had been passed on, but he kept the building and turned it into Chanko Tomoegata. I never met him but I got to know the okami-san quite well. The restaurant now occupies both sides of the road; the building on the left is relatively recent, and with hi-tech hotplates that don't use gas; but you can still book rooms in the original heya building facing it on the right. I've been going to sumo-related parties there for over 30 years.

Hope there aren't too many mistakes -- getting my phone and occasionally-used fax back into pre-earthquake working order (finally!) took an electricity company professional three visits and close to three and a half hours today -- I am worn out with traipsing from room to room and confirming where the ringing sound was coming from this time. (I am not worthy...)

Orion the linked-up

#8 Yubinhaad

Yubinhaad

    Ozeki

  • Regular Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,614 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 19:01

1) and Yoshibayama branched out and set up Miyagino.

Actually he had already branched out under his own ichidai-toshiyori, which later was cancelled or turned into a jun-toshiyori sort of thing.

What I don't get is why he then acquired the Miyagino toshiyori, instead of becoming the next Takashima, when his jun-ichidai-toshiyori expired. Any ideas?

#9 Asashosakari

Asashosakari

    Sumo is a very good thing. Though better with affordable video.

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,452 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 20:47

What I don't get is why he then acquired the Miyagino toshiyori, instead of becoming the next Takashima, when his jun-ichidai-toshiyori expired. Any ideas?

Not sure I understand the question. (I am not worthy...) Tomoegata was Takashima-oyakata at the time (1960), had been in charge of the stable for 9 years, and was still less than 50 years old. I don't think anyone could have known the share would become available only a year later with his name change to Tomozuna. Yoshibayama was an active rikishi until 1958, he didn't figure into the heya transfer that happened in 1951.

Edited by Asashosakari, 18 June 2011 - 20:48.


#10 Yubinhaad

Yubinhaad

    Ozeki

  • Regular Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,614 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 21:31

What I don't get is why he then acquired the Miyagino toshiyori, instead of becoming the next Takashima, when his jun-ichidai-toshiyori expired. Any ideas?

Not sure I understand the question. :-) Tomoegata was Takashima-oyakata at the time (1960), had been in charge of the stable for 9 years, and was still less than 50 years old. I don't think anyone could have known the share would become available only a year later with his name change to Tomozuna. Yoshibayama was an active rikishi until 1958, he didn't figure into the heya transfer that happened in 1951.

It's a fair point - I'm not sure I understood my question either. (I am not worthy...)

It doesn't really matter, I was just a bit confused as to why Yoshibayama, then heading Miyagino-beya, didn't switch to the Takashima name when it became vacant. I would have thought that since he was the star rikishi from that heya, he would be likely to get the toshiyori at the first convenient point. Why did Mitsuneyama instead get it?

#11 Asashosakari

Asashosakari

    Sumo is a very good thing. Though better with affordable video.

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,452 posts

Posted 18 June 2011 - 21:59

It doesn't really matter, I was just a bit confused as to why Yoshibayama, then heading Miyagino-beya, didn't switch to the Takashima name when it became vacant. I would have thought that since he was the star rikishi from that heya, he would be likely to get the toshiyori at the first convenient point. Why did Mitsuneyama instead get it?

Maybe heya signboards are really expensive and he didn't want to change it for a second time? (I am not worthy...) I have no idea; observing the whole thing from 50 years later I find it astonishing enough that Mitsuneyama picked it up so soon, so I've never really wondered why it wasn't done by Yoshibayama instead. Name changes for existing heya (without a corresponding shisho change) are a rather rare thing altogether, after all.

#12 Yubinhaad

Yubinhaad

    Ozeki

  • Regular Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,614 posts

Posted 27 June 2011 - 12:45

Takashima-oyakata is now listed as a coach in Kasugayama-beya.

#13 Pikenoyama

Pikenoyama

    Makushita

  • Regular Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 181 posts

Posted 27 July 2011 - 15:54

Warning: NUTS QUESTION (First prize...) : According to what is written above in this topic, Takashima beya merged with Kasugayama on June 16th due to the retirement of its last sumotori => Komori. But as this retirement came after Nagoya banzuke had been made, this Komori guy was still on the current banzuke (Jonidan 109e). Was he listed as a Takashima beya or Kasugayama beya member? And in more general manner: can the sumotoriīs home heya be changed after his retirement? Or: can a sumotori be listed on the banzuke as part of already non-existing heya? I told you in the beggining, havenīt I .... (First prize...)

Edit: BTW: Takashima oyakata is in Sumoreference-Godīs-gift still listed as part of Takashima beya (First prize...) .

#14 Asashosakari

Asashosakari

    Sumo is a very good thing. Though better with affordable video.

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,452 posts

Posted 27 July 2011 - 16:05

Warning: NUTS QUESTION (First prize...) : According to what is written above in this topic, Takashima beya merged with Kasugayama on June 16th due to the retirement of its last sumotori => Komori. But as this retirement came after Nagoya banzuke had been made, this Komori guy was still on the current banzuke (Jonidan 109e). Was he listed as a Takashima beya or Kasugayama beya member? And in more general manner: can the sumotoriīs home heya be changed after his retirement? Or: can a sumotori be listed on the banzuke as part of already non-existing heya? I told you in the beggining, havenīt I .... (First prize...)

The online banzuke has him as a Takashima rikishi, so I'm guessing that's what the printed version shows, too.

In any case, since a rikishi can be listed on the banzuke after his retirement (frequently happens with sekitori demoted to makushita who retire too late), and this is usually not considered a problem, I think all that matters is that nobody was treated as active out of the folded stable this past basho. They ensured that by retiring Komori pre-basho in an unusual move.

It's been a while since we've heard from Daitensho's trial...

Edited by Asashosakari, 27 July 2011 - 16:07.


#15 Doitsuyama

Doitsuyama

    Yokozuna

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,528 posts

Posted 27 July 2011 - 18:15

The online banzuke has him as a Takashima rikishi, so I'm guessing that's what the printed version shows, too.

Wait, what? I think the printed banzuke has only shusshin but no heya, so it's not a problem here.

#16 Asashosakari

Asashosakari

    Sumo is a very good thing. Though better with affordable video.

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,452 posts

Posted 27 July 2011 - 19:17

Wait, what? I think the printed banzuke has only shusshin but no heya, so it's not a problem here.

My temporary braindeadness struck 12 hours later than expected. Yes, of course.

#17 Tamanaogijima

Tamanaogijima

    Bradypus variegatus

  • Active Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 899 posts

Posted 27 July 2011 - 19:32

Indeed, it's a hypothetical question.

The closest real-life case to that question is the 2009 handover of the Azumazeki-kabu from Takamiyama to Ushiomaru. It happened on June 16, which is too late to be included in the banzuke (handwriting usually ends around 10th/12th of an even month) but still 10 days before the release of the banzuke. But when a foreseeable change in the oyakata world happens in the days between end-of-writing and release it will be added to the banzuke in question already. Ushiomaru was thus listed as Azumazeki on the July banzuke. He even had the note "former Ushiomaru", completely ignoring his 20 days serving as Onogawa-oyakata.

That said, IF banzuke would show heya, I'd expect them to have their new heya written next to them.

#18 Pikenoyama

Pikenoyama

    Makushita

  • Regular Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 181 posts

Posted 28 July 2011 - 07:18

Thank you all for spending time on my oddity digging (First prize...) .


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users