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#101 Kintamayama

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 09:04

Slo-mo from different angle- "DUCK!!"- Hakuhou gives Donald the finger?
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Edited by Kintamayama, 03 February 2011 - 09:05.

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#102 Peterao

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 09:18

Fallout-Nagatanien, the company responsible for 200 kenshos per basho, are looking to cancel them this basho. "We'll have to see how this pans out," said Naga Tanien the CEO.

The nice man running McDonalds Japan, probably suffering brain damage from eating too much of his company's "food", say they will continue to purchase kensho. My boycott continues...

Edited by Peterao, 03 February 2011 - 10:22.


#103 Kintamayama

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 09:50

The lunatic running McDonalds Japan, probably suffering brain damage from eating too much of his company's "food", say they will continue to purchase kensho. My boycott continues...

And I'm going out for a double whopper with extra cheese. More power to them! And I wouldn't write "lunatic", or else you may be slapped with a libel suit.. There is a person behind the job, sir!
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#104 Peterao

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:04

Sorry. Alleged lunatic.

#105 Jakusotsu

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:21

And I'm going out for a double whopper with extra cheese. More power to them!

Hmm, never seen any Burger King banners carried around . . .
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#106 Kintamayama

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:25

And I'm going out for a double whopper with extra cheese. More power to them!

Hmm, never seen any Burger King banners carried around . . .

I bow to your superior knowledge of various junk food outlets. I am correcting it to a "double big mac cheeseburger on coals".
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#107 Otokonoyama

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 10:32

Sorry. Alleged lunatic.

Your initial assessment was not so far off...

http://online.wsj.co...0692538030.html

#108 Peterao

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:27

So I was thinking, even if yaocho itself is not a crime, what about not reporting yaocho income on your tax return? Somehow I doubt that any of these rikishi bothered to itemize their yaocho earnings, and 200,000 to 500,000 yen a pop is not an insignificant amount of money...

#109 Doitsuyama

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 11:57

So I was thinking, even if yaocho itself is not a crime, what about not reporting yaocho income on your tax return? Somehow I doubt that any of these rikishi bothered to itemize their yaocho earnings, and 200,000 to 500,000 yen a pop is not an insignificant amount of money...

I understood that the money is going around, so the net earning shouldn't be big for any rikishi. And by that logic rikishi with net losses should be able to deduct it from the taxes, so it doesn't amount to much fiscal losses if any.

#110 Peterao

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:09

So I was thinking, even if yaocho itself is not a crime, what about not reporting yaocho income on your tax return? Somehow I doubt that any of these rikishi bothered to itemize their yaocho earnings, and 200,000 to 500,000 yen a pop is not an insignificant amount of money...

I understood that the money is going around, so the net earning shouldn't be big for any rikishi. And by that logic rikishi with net losses should be able to deduct it from the taxes, so it doesn't amount to much fiscal losses if any.

Still, isn't it technically a side business that needs to be accounted for even if the net sum is zero?

#111 Kotoviki

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 12:36

And I'm going out for a double whopper with extra cheese. More power to them!

Hmm, never seen any Burger King banners carried around . . .

I bow to your superior knowledge of various junk food outlets. I am correcting it to a "double big mac cheeseburger on coals".


Again thank you Mc Donald's. Tomorrow's lunch the new Idaho Burger (for anyone not in Japan that is a quarter pounder with a hashbrown pattie on it.. and whatever else, I saw a picture only...
After Nagoya I sent pictures of people eating Mc Donald's and using the Mc Donald's fans and pics of me in the drive thru of the employees and pics of the employees giving out the fans at the basho and I wrote a letter to McDs thanking them!!
Guess this happens again in Osaka!

#112 yorikiried by fate

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 13:12

So I was thinking, even if yaocho itself is not a crime, what about not reporting yaocho income on your tax return?



That's how they got Al Capone, methinks mereads.
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#113 Asashosakari

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 13:13

NHK News video of the fixed Kasuganishiki-Kiyoseumi bout (Natsu 2010 Day 3)

#114 Asashosakari

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 13:33

Suspect #14 appears to be Gagamaru, based on a message with bout instructions sent from Enatsukasa to Chiyohakuho on the day he was set to face the Georgian (Haru Day 9).

#115 Kotoviki

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 13:37

Suspect #14 appears to be Gagamaru, based on a message with bout instructions sent from Enatsukasa to Chiyohakuho on the day he was set to face the Georgian (Haru Day 9).


As Gagamaru's English teacher I hope not to be implicated in any scandals....... (Shaking head...)

#116 Asashosakari

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 13:52

Suspect #14 appears to be Gagamaru, based on a message with bout instructions sent from Enatsukasa to Chiyohakuho on the day he was set to face the Georgian (Haru Day 9).


As Gagamaru's English teacher I hope not to be implicated in any scandals....... (Shaking head...)

Or maybe #14 is Kirinowaka, as his name supposedly came up in the first round of hearings yesterday. Oddly enough, both reports are from Mainichi...

In case anyone was wondering, while Kasuganishiki, Chiyohakuho and Enatsukasa admitted their involvement, Kiyoseumi continues to deny he participated in yaocho even with his text messages being found on Kasuganishiki's phone.

Edit: On rereading the first report, I guess they're talking about Gagamaru as someone "outside the 14 (already implicated rikishi)", i.e. a potential 15th guy. Might be lucky that he wasn't mentioned by name in that message...

Edited by Asashosakari, 03 February 2011 - 14:00.


#117 Kotoviki

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 14:08

Suspect #14 appears to be Gagamaru, based on a message with bout instructions sent from Enatsukasa to Chiyohakuho on the day he was set to face the Georgian (Haru Day 9).


As Gagamaru's English teacher I hope not to be implicated in any scandals....... (Shaking head...)

Or maybe #14 is Kirinowaka, as his name supposedly came up in the first round of hearings yesterday. Oddly enough, both reports are from Mainichi...

In case anyone was wondering, while Kasuganishiki, Chiyohakuho and Enatsukasa admitted their involvement, Kiyoseumi continues to deny he participated in yaocho even with his text messages being found on Kasuganishiki's phone.

Edit: On rereading the first report, I guess they're talking about Gagamaru as someone "outside the 14 (already implicated rikishi)", i.e. a potential 15th guy. Might be lucky that he wasn't mentioned by name in that message...


Kirinowaka seems as no surprise to me... many of the names do not!!!
Maybe I'm too close to the sumo world and too close to so many heya that I (think) I can read some of the guys just by their other actions and behavior?

However as close friends with Yamamotoyama and Shotenro I'm really heartbroken if they are indeed guilty!!!

Gagamaru seems surprising to me, he worked so hard and long to get to be sekitori that I'm surprised... (Shaking head...) of course as his teacher I'm also disappointed if he is indeed guilty!!!!

#118 Asashosakari

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 14:39

The Kyokai is asking all Juryo and higher rikishi to fill in an anket. OK, a questionnaire, pertaining to the latest developments. Nothing about the contents, but a questionnaire nonetheless.

It's the expected stuff: did you ever participate in fixed bouts; if yes: when and how often, against who, were any go-betweens involved, did you pay or receive money for the fixed bout(s), and if yes, how much.

The answers are already due by tomorrow (the 4th), and rikishi have been cautioned that if any of their responses turn out to be false by subsequent investigations, they're opening themselves up to harsh penalties.

Edited by Asashosakari, 03 February 2011 - 14:40.


#119 shumitto

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 14:54

The Kyokai is asking all Juryo and higher rikishi to fill in an anket. OK, a questionnaire, pertaining to the latest developments. Nothing about the contents, but a questionnaire nonetheless.

It's the expected stuff: did you ever participate in fixed bouts; if yes: when and how often, against who, were any go-betweens involved, did you pay or receive money for the fixed bout(s), and if yes, how much.

The answers are already due by tomorrow (the 4th), and rikishi have been cautioned that if any of their responses turn out to be false by subsequent investigations, they're opening themselves up to harsh penalties.


And if they play ball now they are also prone to harsh punishments.

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#120 Asashosakari

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 15:08

And if they play ball now they are also prone to harsh punishments.

Yup. One article already recalled the spectacle of the gambling investigations, when the rikishi were told their answers to a similar questionnaire would be treated as confidential and then ended up being published anyway.

Of course, this is a much more complicated issue for the involved rikishi because - as complicated as the fixing networks possibly are - even if you keep quiet, there's no guarantee that everybody else that you have been involved with also doesn't say anything.

Other than complete silence, the best outcome for those with dirty hands would probably be if practically every sekitori admits to some small-scale fixing...

#121 Harry

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 15:43

Indeed, after his loss at Nagoya 2009, Asa was not upset. He calmly told me he would win the next one, and he did. At the time I thought it an odd remark and wanted to mention it but then thought better of it while he was active. Now... I think it is OK to say.


No, it's the rikishi way. I've been around many of the boys, as I know you have, too, Harry, many times after their losses and they were never upset. Asa always said he would win the next one regardless of whether he won or lost the last. If I told the boys that they will win the next, they inevitably responded that they would, all very calmly, all very confidently. I'm not ruling anything out, but I doubt that any one of them saying they will win the next bout, yusho, whatever is anything but confidence in their own abilities or, just plain bravado. Just my opinion, knowing the man, Dagvadorj Dolgorsuren, for all these years.

Go ahead and take your shots now (not directed at you, Harry (Shaking head...) )


Actually Barbara, Harry has only been to one basho (Nagoya 2009 with me) and he only had a chance to be with me one night with the boys so he doesn't know what it is like on a regular basis!!

Harry, not trying to say anything bad against you my friend.. just that it was your only one experience!!!
As Barbara says if you're around every basho every year, so many boys you get used to this behaviour... all ranks the boys say just this "I will win the next one!"
And some are upset and some aren't!!!


I know they always say they'll win next time but this was different. It was not the usual answer to the question that rikishi give, that Iron Chef challengers gave, that you will get when you ask anyone in a competition in Japan, "will you win?" "Yes, of course I will win!" The response he gave was no nonchalant that it gave me the impression of something already known. I could be wrong and that was simply my impression of course.

#122 Harry

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 15:46

The Tamago Double Mac was good... with side orders of fries and Chicken McNuggets...

#123 Hananotaka

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 15:49

The full set of incriminating messages (Japanese only until some kind soul...well.)

Here's the gist. It's not one long continuous conversation, but a bunch of fragments, often vague in terms of what's being referred to. The vague one's I've tried to keep as vague as possible.

-Josh


March 17, 2010 Kasuganishiki to Enatsukasa: Who do I owe? Only Kouryuu and Yamamotoyama owe me. Toyo (Toyozakura) and Tenrou (Wakatenrou) and Shiro (Shirononami), right? I'm clear with Kaihou, right?

Same day, Kasuganishiki to Enatsukasa: Anyway, if I can't borrow I'll pay back with hoshi! I might not go up against Shiro. It's probably best to clear Kaihou and Kouryuu's match tomorrow.

Same day, Kasuganishiki to Chiyohakuho: What kind of sumo should we do?

March 22nd, Enatsukasa to Chiyohakuho: Today he'll charge strong at the tachiai. Yoroshiku onegai-shimasu.

March 25, Kasuganishiki to Kiyoseumi: Thanks, this'll really help! Take it easy!

April 9, Enatsukasa to Chiyohakuho: Do you have even 50,000 yen?

Same day, Chiyohakuho to Enatsukasa: Nothin' but 40,000.

April 16, Kasuganishiki to Kiyoseumi: Thanks for before. I'm lending Koryu one victory, so for 20 I'll give you the right to claim it. How's that?

Same day, Kasuganishiki to Kiyoseumi: Roger that! Later.

May 7, Enatsukasa to Kasuganishiki: Looks like Shimo (Shimotori) will be tough. We'll have to have Koryu take a fall if he goes up against one of the Juryo joi.

May 10, Kiyoseumi to Kasuganishiki: I'll hit hard at the tachiai; please let things go by the flow afterward.

Same day, Kasuganishiki to Kiyoseumi: Understood! In that case, I'll hold my ground a bit in the flow of things.

May 11, Kasuganishiki to Enatsukasa: I'm taking a fall today. Yesterday I was asked to, so anyway I'll be falling.

Same day, Enatsukasa to Kasugnishiki: Yesterday was pretty good. How is today going to go?

May 12, Enatsukasa to Kasuganishiki: No reason for a mono-ii with today's sumo! Nankai-san (Kyokunankai) wants to give one of his savings to Toyo-zeki (Toyozakura). If you go up against Toyo-zeki, he'd like you to take a fall. Also, it looks like he wants to do a three-way carousel: Nankai, Tenrou, and you, Nishiki-zeki. Something like tomorrow, you'd win against Wakatenrou, and if you went up against Nankai, you'd lose. How is that?

Same day, Enatsukasa to Kasuganishiki: Don't do hataki. I think it's best to let them tsuppari you in the chest as much as they can, and in the end get a migi-zashi and go with yorikiri, or something like a sukui-nage.

May 14, Kasuganishiki to Enatsukasa: What's it look like for Kiyo (Kiyoseumi) and Toyo (Toyozakura) today? If nothing's going on, we can clear what Kiyo owes me.

Same day, Kasuganishiki to Enatsukasa: If I don't make at least 50 by the end of the basho, I'm in trouble.

May 23, Kiyoseumi to Kasuganishiki: About next basho, if possible can you give something to me? If it's no good, I'd like to get 200,000 back.

Same day, Kasuganishiki to Kiyoseumi: Understood! Wait a little longer; after the basho I'll be getting 700,000, and when that's all figured out, I'll contact you.

May 25, Kasuganishiki to Kiyoseumi: So, direct repayment will work?

Same day, Kiyoseumi to Kasuganishiki: If you'll keep your promise, direct is fine. I'll hand over 20 at Dejima-zeki's intai-zumo.

Same day, Kasuganishiki to Kiyoseumi: Understood!

May 27, Enatsukasa to Chiyohakuho: Good job. The match with Shotenro will be gachi.

June 1, Kasuganishiki to Enatsukasa: Sorry about this, but I have no money on me, so I wonder if you can get paid off for this afternoon and put the money in my account. Mitsubishi Tokyo UFJ (account info). Yoroshiku onegai-shimasu!

Same day, Enatsukasa to Kasuganishiki: If Kouryuu's comes in, I'll have 50, but it doesn't look like it'll be coming in, so right now I'll definitely put in 25. It's not enough at all, is it?

Edited by Hananotaka, 03 February 2011 - 15:51.


#124 Kotoviki

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 15:53

Indeed, after his loss at Nagoya 2009, Asa was not upset. He calmly told me he would win the next one, and he did. At the time I thought it an odd remark and wanted to mention it but then thought better of it while he was active. Now... I think it is OK to say.


No, it's the rikishi way. I've been around many of the boys, as I know you have, too, Harry, many times after their losses and they were never upset. Asa always said he would win the next one regardless of whether he won or lost the last. If I told the boys that they will win the next, they inevitably responded that they would, all very calmly, all very confidently. I'm not ruling anything out, but I doubt that any one of them saying they will win the next bout, yusho, whatever is anything but confidence in their own abilities or, just plain bravado. Just my opinion, knowing the man, Dagvadorj Dolgorsuren, for all these years.

Go ahead and take your shots now (not directed at you, Harry (Shaking head...) )


Actually Barbara, Harry has only been to one basho (Nagoya 2009 with me) and he only had a chance to be with me one night with the boys so he doesn't know what it is like on a regular basis!!

Harry, not trying to say anything bad against you my friend.. just that it was your only one experience!!!
As Barbara says if you're around every basho every year, so many boys you get used to this behaviour... all ranks the boys say just this "I will win the next one!"
And some are upset and some aren't!!!


I know they always say they'll win next time but this was different. It was not the usual answer to the question that rikishi give, that Iron Chef challengers gave, that you will get when you ask anyone in a competition in Japan, "will you win?" "Yes, of course I will win!" The response he gave was no nonchalant that it gave me the impression of something already known. I could be wrong and that was simply my impression of course.


Harry, not that any of us can be 100% sure here but I'm sure it was the usual. I've heard it from him and others in the same tone before. Really I never felt then nor do I feel now that it was anything other than confidence in sumo (not yaocho!)

Just my opinion though as well!!!

On another note to everyone it is really a grim feeling in Ryogoku... chatted with a few boys tonight and again like the marijuana scandal, the baseball scandal.. they are being treated like prisoners from jonokuchi all the way to the top. Locked in the heyas...

#125 Kintamayama

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Posted 03 February 2011 - 16:19

Here's the gist. It's not one long continuous conversation, but a bunch of fragments, often vague in terms of what's being referred to. The vague one's I've tried to keep as vague as possible.
-Josh
March 17, 2010 Kasuganishiki to Enatsukasa: etc..

Thanks so much-totally riveting. (Shaking head...)
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