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#26 Kotoseiya Yuichi

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 10:32

Just to prove that some men look better when they get older, here's Kotozakura, current Sadogatake-oyakata.

I take this as a proof I still have hope. There are reasons why no fellow sumo fan has seen me in real life. :-)
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#27 Manekineko

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 18:03

I take this as a proof I still have hope. There are reasons why no fellow sumo fan has seen me in real life. ;-)

What, not even Kaikitsune-zeki?
And if you want comfort, how about Kotonowaka's mug shot? That's another man improved by years! :D
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#28 Onnagumo

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 19:32

And if you want comfort, how about Kotonowaka's mug shot? That's another man improved by years! :D

I absolutely agree! I hadn't even recognized the mugshot  (Blush...)
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#29 Kotoseiya Yuichi

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Posted 04 January 2003 - 01:51

What, not even Kaikitsune-zeki?

He keeps on dreaming of having seen me once in a TV quiz show humiliating myself in front of a million Finns.
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#30 Kintamayama

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Posted 06 January 2003 - 11:13

Have you got photo of Dewanoumi-beya new rikishi, Uchida ( from Nichi-dai )?

Here he is. Uchida, as requested by Tony.

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#31 Tony

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Posted 06 January 2003 - 12:41

Do you have pictures to Chiyonofuji, Kitanoumi or Takanosato from sumo magazines or card? ( Because on the web I already search )

#32 Amanogawa

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 10:31

The first picture is a mirror image. :-P

I'm sorry I'm being a little picking in details,  but I don't think this picture is a mirror image. Please take a close look at how Kotonowaka wears yukata ( this type of kimono ) in neckline.  When you wear kimono,  you always wear with the left front ( or left "collar" ) over the right one so you can put your right hand in between the "collars" where you could even carry your wallet or towel or small things.  ( Btw, there's only one exception for this kimono-wearing rule. When you dress a body with a special type of kimono [ shinishouzoku =robes for dead ],   you make it the right collar over the left one.  )  "Garyu" obviously looks reversed,  but this reversed texts are seen more than often. I guess this is a sort of "humour" or  "chic"touch they like to make, or possibly there could be some sort of jinx, I'm not really sure.  

Kanji looks all right to me. Right behind Kotonowaka is the akeni of Tomonohana,  and next to it is Hayateumi's.  And at the back of this picture is Chiyotenzan's. They are all simply upside down, but not reversed.


Bests,
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#33 Kotoseiya Yuichi

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 11:13

(EDIT: Images given more contrast.)

I do think it is a mirror image. Consider Chiyotenzan's shikona:

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The last kanji is that very common yama/zan one (common in shikona, that is), isn't it? That's what caught my eye in the first place.

The image originally posted by Manekineko-zeki featured Tenzan's akeni like this:

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Naturally it's upside down. But the order of the kanji!

Let's see how it looks mirrored (back to its real orientation as I'm inclined to believe):

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Now the kanji are in the correct order on a lid lying upside down. Or did I miss something? Aren't kanji read left-to-right when written horizontally?

Of course I have nothing to gainsay about your remarks on Kotonowaka's kimono and its details. Who am I to argue about those things with a native Japanese? (Blush...)

BTW, are the collars worn in Japan the same way by both genders? In Finland (and most likely in all Europe) men wear left collar up, women right collar up.
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#34 Manekineko

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Posted 07 January 2003 - 11:53

More pictures!

Taiko drummers going to work.
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This picture is from that same photographer's page, with the same excuse for breaking the copyright...
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Mitoizumi, freshly retired, doing security duty in Kokugikan.
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Born to be a yokozuna. Current Takanohana, yes.
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Mainoumi posing with Japan's football team's shirt.
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Kyokushuzan, doing tyre-pulling excercise.
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More later...
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#35 Kotoseiya Yuichi

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Posted 08 January 2003 - 11:14

Or did I miss something? Aren't kanji read left-to-right when written horizontally?

I DID miss something!

Once Amanogawa-zeki gets well again, she might want to explain this issue by herself or let me cite her email here. The explanation is indeed quite a lot more complex than I thought by just simply rearranging the kanji into an order that seemed to suit me, a European :-/ , better.

How lucky we are to have a real Japanese on this forum to explain these details to us! I won't try (for a while) to sell snow to Eskimoes and sand to Touaregs. :-P Stupid me!
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#36 Kotoseiya Yuichi

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Posted 09 January 2003 - 07:38

Once Amanogawa-zeki gets well again, she might want to explain this issue by herself or let me cite her email here.

So, here's the explanation why the photo is not a mirror image:


Let me start from the writing:

The thing is,  the Japanese writing system originally did not have a concept of horizontal way of writing. We (Japanese) would write from top to the bottom, then forward from right to left,  just as you see in any Japanese book.  (I think this is not only about Japanese but originally Chinese and Korean, too.)

But I guess,  even in those times when there was no "horizontal way" concept, there must have been occasions people needed to write little notes in horizontal way due to limited space or whatever. What they would do then was to write letters from right to left,  just according to their time's writing system. It might not have been "horizontal" in their mind, however, but simply a "sorting" each letter - I mean, it might have been an approach something like -- "placing only one letter at top of each vertical line and then moving forward from right to left".  And this eventually made up a right-left "horizontal" writing style.

And it's not so long a history - I guess it's only after Japan started its diplomatic relationships with foreign countries where writing systems were like ones you've been familiar with. And as time went by,  Japanese writing system had added a new feature which was a horizontal way of writing, that goes from left to right.

I think you can see some examples of the original right-left Japanese writing in the banzuke, too. As "Toshiyori" or "Gyoji" or "Wakaimonogashira". You see these kanji go from right to left.


And about the kanjis for Chiyotenzan. :-P

1: Look at the first stroke of the first kanji. "Chi/Sen". In the original image, it starts from the upper right and goes toward the down left which is correct. And in the image you reversed,  it looks opposite.

2: Look closer at the little kanji written at the corner of the same block of "Chi" is written. It is of course the kanji "Yo". You know how "Yo" looks like.  Do you think the original image carries the proper form of the kanji?  The one you reversed has the opposite positions of both right/left parts (hen/tsukuri) of the character.

3: The kanji "Ten". You know the third and fourth strokes are supposed to be written in different ways. Third stroke should be drawn out freely. The fourth stroke should be made a brief stop before being drawn out.

4: The kanji "Yama" you took an issue of. Now please take a close look at the last stroke. When you stop the stroke,  you (sort of) tend to make it end slightly longer than the left equivalent vertical line (the first part of the second stroke).

5: When you do Japanese calligraphy, the outlook of the top part of vertical lines are usually "rectangles which diagonally miss the right half" [ UGH!! Sorry for my English!!!! ]. Please now look at the "yama" kanji again. You'll see what I mean.

6: Overall, Japanese characters would give you nicer impressions when written as they look going upward to the right. [ Ugh!! Sorry again for my English!! ] Actually calligraphy teachers would teach you to write so as a rule of the thumb. Look at the first picture Manekineko posted for the last (yobidashi's going for work walking by the colorful nobori - this one - link added by Kotoseiya). Accidentally all these noboris are reversed for this moment, so you see all Japanese characters written in these banners look way going upward to the left, don't you think?


And finally about my question about how collars are worn in Japan:


Same in here. :-/ Men wear left collar up, women right up. As you know, we (Japanese) rarely wear kimono any longer except on special occasions, or unless you practice tea ceremony.

Only kimono requires you to implement that very stern rule to wear always and always "left collar up". If you ever broke this rule, you'd 200% be frowned upon. Very shameful thing to do.

Now we know, thanks to her. (Thumbs up...)
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#37 Manekineko

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Posted 10 January 2003 - 11:15

Undokai special! (most of the pictures here were sent to me by Nekonishiki-zeki, if I remember correctly, many thanks).

For uninitiated, Undokai are some sort of school sport-meet, only featuring rikishi instead of children (not that you can tell the difference :D)

Since it's sport, there were races, rope-pulling:
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pyramid-fights (does this have some official name? 4 men form a pyramid, and one pyramid tries to topple the other or snatch the headband from the top man):
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bales tossing (Chiyotaikai won that one):
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But there was also masquerading, each Ichimon (stable group) arranging a performance. So you had rikishi playing kindergarten children:
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Miyabiyama was their (female) caretaker. He wore fake set of breasts, not that he needed to... :-/

Here are Aogiyama and Terao as Lady Oscar and her lover Andre from "Rose of Versailles" manga. They even exchanged what was described as "hot" kiss, but you couldn't see anything from their wigs:
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Wakanohana and Kotonishiki as Alladin (from Disney's cartoon) and his Jasmine:
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Kaio and Kyokushuzan as Leonardo di Caprio and Kate Winslet in "Titanic":
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Kaio even lifted his lady-love in his arms. When asked later what was Kyokushuzan like, Kaio moaned: "Heavy!" Hey, maybe that's the source of his back-pain... (Being sly...)

And finaly, for me the most ridiculous of them all: Sailor rikishi!
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I forgot who played Sailors Venus and Jupiter, but Sailor Mercury (blue) is Chiyotaikai, Sailor Mars (red) Chiyotenzan, and Sailor Moon (center of first picture) is Toki, recognisable by his lovely sideburns. Other parts were played by Asanowaka (Chibimoon), Mitoizumi (Tuxedo Mask), and Kaiho (Queen Beryl). I admit it, I'm Sailor Moon fan, and I couldn't stop laughing when I watched this: what a perfect union of my two hobbies! (Jumping of joy...)
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#38 Tokimori

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Posted 10 January 2003 - 14:29

Toki as Sailor Moon!!!  


Fantastic!

It will be impossible to watch Sailor moon again though...


Go watch Sailor Moon in "The return of the sideburns"!!! 8-O
May Toki's reign never end...

#39 Yoavoshimaru

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Posted 26 January 2003 - 17:39

What a great thread!  I can't believe I only located it now.  Thank you everyone for posting these excellent pictures, and the kanji explanation as well.  Unfortunately I don't have any pictures to contribute at this point  :-(

#40 Manekineko

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Posted 04 February 2003 - 11:46

I have some 15 minutes to kill in a busy day, and what better way to relax but to post some more pictures!
Most of them are jungyo pictures...

Akeni (luggage) being packed for the road.
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Aminishiki, resting after roller-excercise.
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Asashoryu in his maegashira days, doing "who's the man" act.
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Two Chiyos, Kuniazuma, and assorted tsukebito, returning from a swim.
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Musashimaru with some homeland friends.
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Daishi does what Daishi does best: jinku.
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And some jungyo keiko (practice).
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Enjoy!
Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously.


- Gilbert Keith Chesterton


#41 Doitsuyama

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Posted 04 February 2003 - 15:06

Asashoryu in his maegashira days, doing "who's the man" act.
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Man, I'm really ignorant with regard to rikishi's faces. If you wouldn't have have written that he's Asashōryū I would have thought this is Wakanosato's mug. :)

#42 Fujisan

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Posted 04 February 2003 - 15:26

Thats cos its Asashoryu pulling a funny face and Wakanosatos got one to start with,HaHaHaHa!!!!! Im not telling him though.

Dont sweat about the faces though Doitsu,you cant be any worse than me.
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#43 Manekineko

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Posted 14 February 2003 - 13:35

Time for some more pictures:

Kasugano-beya rikishi (I recognise Tochinonada and Tochisakae) having their hair washed (jungyo picture):
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Musashimaru, not looking very yokozuna-like. :D
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Takamisakari, squinting at camera (yearbook picture):
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Takanowaka, picture of innocence. :p
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Who wouldn't want to have their photo taken with these two handsome lads! Aminishiki and Mitoizumi waiting for customers.
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Buyuzan, pensive. ;)  Next to him is Tamanoshima.
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And finaly, a cute mongolian baby with ribbons in his hair... it's Kyokutenho.
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That's it for today!
Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously.


- Gilbert Keith Chesterton


#44 Yoavoshimaru

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Posted 14 February 2003 - 15:08

Hi,
Very cool pictures -- thanks  :-P

My favorite of this batch is Musashimaru at the beach  :-D

#45 Yoavoshimaru

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Posted 16 February 2003 - 14:33

I don't think I've ever replied to my own message ;)  

Anyways, just wanted to second Tony's request for Chyionofuji pictures.  My fav rikishi of all time.  (Note...)

#46 Manekineko

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Posted 21 February 2003 - 09:09

And more pictures (working on Friday? what's that?)

Is this Terao's boy? Yearbook picture, akeni in the background.
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Jungyo picture! Preparing the ground for practice are Kotonowaka and, um, who?
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Kotonowaka doesn't appreciate being filmed in his hard work.
;)  The fuzzy smile in the background belongs to Aogiyama.
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Weary Tochiazuma revels in the luxury of having his hair done.
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Asashoryu reading about himself in the papers. I didn't know Mongolians used cyrillic script... The title of the paper is "Tavan Cagarig"
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Tokitsuumi doing the hand-stand...
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And for all those shocked by baby-blue mawashi last basho, here's Toki in (gasp) navy-blue.
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That's it for today!

Re: Chiyonofuji. Unfortunately, I don't have his pictures, since the scans (sent to me by Hahanoyama-zeki, millions of thanks) are from recent years. There is one artucle about yokozuna of old, so I'll check it for pictures and post them later.
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#47 Yoavoshimaru

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Posted 21 February 2003 - 16:36

And for all those shocked by baby-blue mawashi last basho, here's Toki in (gasp) navy-blue.


Great pictures  :-D   Thank you!

I like navy-blue on Toki, and on anyone else in fact.  It's one of my favorite colors.   (Feeling artistic...)

#48 Zenjimoto

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Posted 21 February 2003 - 17:49

And who would have thought that stoic Tochiazuma wears colorful patterned undershorts! :)

Cheers
Zenjimoto
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#49 Yoavoshimaru

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Posted 22 February 2003 - 21:13

Can anyone tell what those drinks are (3 cans) to the left of Toki?

#50 Onnagumo

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Posted 22 February 2003 - 21:58

Thanks again Manekineko-zeki, great pics!
I guess I don't have to tell you which one I like best  :-D , but the Terao picture is great too. And Toki's biiiig smile makes me wonder too what those drinks are....  :-D
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