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#51 ilovesumo

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 06:44

I always thought Takanohana should have much better success since his takeover but he has done zilch so far when you compare him to somelike Sakaigawa or Oneo or Kise.


Perhaps he should be looking at recruiting a college athlete to help kickstart his heya?


I would not wonder if that would bring trouble in a Heya. No Sekiori there so far and then a new guy being Heyagashira without having anything prooved yet in Ozumo.
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#52 Fay

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Posted 11 June 2007 - 07:52

I would not wonder if that would bring trouble in a Heya. No Sekiori there so far and then a new guy being Heyagashira without having anything prooved yet in Ozumo.



Well not having proved anything is better than having been in ozumo for years proving nothing.
Plus only a few college rikishi get the makushita qualification. Most start at the bottom.


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#53 James H

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Posted 12 June 2007 - 10:05

I always thought Takanohana should have much better success since his takeover but he has done zilch so far when you compare him to somelike Sakaigawa...


I was lucky enough to see Sakaigawa run keiko at his beya during the Summer Tournament - the day after Hochiyama, Iwakiyama and Goeido all makekoshi'd in fact...

Although it is likely he was putting them through the grinder because of that, what was impressive was the intensity and the attention to sumo-do. I've never seen keiko like that before - not just the physical effort, but the concentration and importance of "saigo made" and so on...

Whether that is converted into success or not, it made sense that he has produced so many good wrestlers from a relatively small group.

#54 Raishu

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 13:47

Isegahama kabu will be vacant within the next few hours.

Are there any news on a possible successor?

Since there are a lot of loaners and eligible aspirants in makushita, I'm very curious about who is going to win the race (or maybe no one??)

#55 Asashosakari

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 15:58

I doubt there will be any quick developments around that kabu, what with its ownership kind of unclear. At best, we might see the Wakafuji kabu find a new owner/holder soon, which of course would be an admission that ex-Isegahama and current Isegahama (until tomorrow anyway) only did a pro-forma switch last year.

Edited by Asashosakari, 08 August 2007 - 16:01.


#56 madorosumaru

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 16:12

Actually, Isegahama kabu has been vacant for almost a week. At the board meeting on Aug. 3, Kyokai approved the change of Isegahama back to his original Wakafuji. At the time of the former Isegahama Oyakata's retirement last November, Wakafuji Oyakata (former maegashira Katshuhikari) was asked to take over the Isegahama myoseki temporarily.

Since the former Katsuhikari turns 65 on Aug 9, one would wonder why bother, but I assume the move was made to facilitate the eventual transfer, by sale or loan, of the two myoseki.

The very short article on this change did not mention possible successor(s). All it said was, at that time (8/3), Isegahama became a vacant kabu.
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#57 Asashosakari

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 16:21

Actually, Isegahama kabu has been vacant for almost a week. At the board meeting on Aug. 3, Kyokai approved the change of Isegahama back to his original Wakafuji. At the time of the former Isegahama Oyakata's retirement last November, Wakafuji Oyakata (former maegashira Katshuhikari) was asked to take over the Isegahama myoseki temporarily.

Since the former Katsuhikari turns 65 on Aug 9, one would wonder why bother, but I assume the move was made to facilitate the eventual transfer, by sale or loan, of the two myoseki.

The very short article on this change did not mention possible successor(s). All it said was, at that time (8/3), Isegahama became a vacant kabu.

D'oh! Thanks mado-san...well, even more reason to suspect that the Isegahama share won't become available anytime soon (in any practical sense, that is), but that Wakafuji might.

Edited by Asashosakari, 08 August 2007 - 16:26.


#58 Torideyama

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 14:20

I also wonder if Takamisakari is actually "smart" and savvy enough to run a stable effectively?


You are right about that but being smart and having savviness aren't the requirements to run a heya. We can think of a few heya heads much more dumb than Takamisakari in the Kyokai right now.


Takasago seems to come to mind at the moment.
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#59 Jakusotsu

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 14:28

:-/ hmm, I'm just trying to imagine how Takamisakari would handle the whole mess right now in Takasago's stead... (Laughing...)
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#60 water

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 17:27

I think it's more that Azumazeki probably expects Sakari to do the tarento thing after he's done competing.


Takamisakari says he can never figure out showbiz types and perhaps insists a bit too hard he never wants to be around them.

My understanding is that after his active sumo life, he wants to take over the apple orchard his parents own back in Aomori.

Unless of course someone comes up to him with a ready made kabu, like marrying into one.


He already has a kabu, one from the Takasago ichimon. He sure is smarter than Akebono for actually buying a kabu during the height of his financial prosperity!

#61 Asojima

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Posted 09 August 2007 - 17:35

He already has a kabu, one from the Takasago ichimon. He sure is smarter than Akebono for actually buying a kabu during the height of his financial prosperity!

Which one?
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#62 Kintamayama

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 09:17

Oshiogawa ( ex Asanoshou) has switched to Wakafuji today.
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#63 Raishu

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Posted 28 August 2007 - 15:34

Looks like the doors are open for Wakatoba to pick up Oshiogawa kabu and to retire for the very last time :-P

#64 Asashosakari

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 09:26

Looks like the doors are open for Wakatoba to pick up Oshiogawa kabu and to retire for the very last time (Neener, neener...)

It's official now, as Wakatoba has handed in his retirement papers today and taken on the Oshiogawa name.

#65 Jonosuke

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 14:16

I guess Wakatoba pretty much knew the future when he un-retired originally or stopped from retiriing by a known source.

I've known the old Oshiogawa oyakata for so long that somehow I cannot picture the new Oshiogawa oyakata.

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#66 ilovesumo

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 14:18

Yeah...intelligent move.
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#67 madorosumaru

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 18:39

Former makuuchi Wakatoba announced his retirement yesterday. He had just completed Natsu Basho with an 1-6 record at makushita 22. "I lost my will to continue," he told the press sadly.

Wakatoba, who will be 30 in June, joined sumo in 1993 and reached makuuchi in Aki 2003. He spent 7 basho in the top division with his highest rank at maegashira 11.

Reflecting on his sumo career, he said, "My [fondest] memory was being able to oppose Terao-zeki on the dohyo. As for the future, I will think about that after discussing it with my shisho [Oguruma Oyakata]."


When he discussed the matter with his shisho, he found that there was no oyakata slot available and was told that he should wait until one became open. He, then, changed his tune to, "Oh yeah, I was thinking of retiring but I'm going to gambarize a little longer."

Now, some behind-the-scene arrangements were made and Oshiogawa became available so, voila, a new oyakata!
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#68 Asashosakari

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Posted 29 August 2007 - 22:29

Now, some behind-the-scene arrangements were made and Oshiogawa became available so, voila, a new oyakata!

And probably one of the most stable loaning arrangements around right now, given that he's borrowing from his old shisho. The only other one who ex-Daikirin could conceivably want to give the kabu to would be his prized deshi Wakakirin, and he's far away from even being eligible. No kabu-hopping necessary for Wakatoba, most likely.

#69 Jonosuke

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 12:28

So we will now have a swap of Tokitsukaze and Nishikijima.

Tokitsuumi will get Tokitsukaze and the former Tokitsukaze will end up with Nishikijima, currently loaned to Zaonishiki. But by now we should know this heya is to be a Tokyo Nogyo University clan (obviously former Yutakayama has still some say in how the heya operates) with Tokitsuumi being a graduate from the university and it appears very likely another, Shimootori will eventually get Nishikijima (if he can get the money).

Another likely change after the Kyushu basho may be with Toki. It appears likely Chiyotenzan will retire after the basho so in that case Chiyotaikai's Sanoyama will likely go to him so Toki needs to find a new one pretty soon.

Edit: A latest report indicates that the Kyokai is trying to force the former Tokitsukaze oyakata to give up his share (Tokitsukaze) and apparently this has been a complicating issue as Tokitsuumi will need to come up with the money and since he can no longer have two Myoseiki, he will need to give up his Nishikijima. As it's evident that the only rikishi who can get this is Shimootori, he will need to find the money and then lend it to Zaonishiki. Apparently all this behind the scene activity and paper work are contributing to the time needed for the hand over.

The current Tokitsukze building and land are owned by the former former Tokitsukaze oyakata (ozeki Yutakayama and former Kyokai chairman) and he feels the only way to save the prestigeous heya is to make it with the Tokyo Nogyo University factor.

Edited by Jonosuke, 07 October 2007 - 13:09.

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#70 Raishu

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 21:49

Thanks for the update.

I have read the edited part three times, and I still can't get the clue why Tokitsuumi has to pay for the Tokitsukaze kabu (Jumping in ecstasy...)
Why is a simple switch not working? The current Tokitsukaze would get Nishikijima and can loan it to ex-Zaonishiki until Shimootori retires.

Is the Tokitsukaze name higher in value?

#71 Jonosuke

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 22:44

Why is a simple switch not working? The current Tokitsukaze would get Nishikijima and can loan it to ex-Zaonishiki until Shimootori retires.


Actually I thought myself all that needed was a simple swap.

However apparently the Kyokai is playing a hard ball here. They are saying those who were forced out but still having a Myoseki cannot be accepted by common sense and are asking the former Tokitsukaze oyakata to cut his ties completely from the Kyokai.

According to the current Kyokai by-law, if a Toshiyori Myoseki holder passed away or retired from the Kyokai, either the inheritor (family member) or himself can possess it for three years.

So we all thought the Tokitsukaze oyakata can get Nishikijima from Tokitsuumi and then keep it for three years and during that time he can rid of it but apparently the Kyokai doesn't want anything to do with him anymore.

An estimated current going rate of any Myoseki is a minimum of 100 Million Yen or around US$1 Million. The old oyakata got his Tokitsukaze share for around 30 Million Yen so even without any severence pay from the Kyokai, he will have some money for his retirement.

Edited by Jonosuke, 07 October 2007 - 22:46.

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#72 Asashosakari

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 23:02

I forget...do the Kyokai's shareholders, i.e. the oyakata, get an additional bonus/dividend at the end of the fiscal year (assuming they finish in the black as usual)? If so, they'd be hard-pressed to withhold that from ex-Tokitsukaze, and maybe they want him out before that occurs. (Total speculation on my part...)

#73 Raishu

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 23:22

Thanks for your quick reply.

BTW: What would happen to the Heya's Sekitoris if the worst case scenario (no new Tokitsukaze until the 9th) came into existence.

Would the Kyokai be forced to exclude them form the current Jungyo Tour?

Edited by Raishu, 07 October 2007 - 23:29.


#74 Asashosakari

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 10:46

Another likely change after the Kyushu basho may be with Toki. It appears likely Chiyotenzan will retire after the basho so in that case Chiyotaikai's Sanoyama will likely go to him so Toki needs to find a new one pretty soon.

Is there a source for the "Chiyotenzan retires next basho" part? I'm asking because he has stuck it out far longer than necessary already (assuming he in fact is set to borrow Sanoyama-kabu), which indicates he's waiting for something else to happen first. I agree with Tamanaogijima (way back in post #6, in a different context) that that "something" could well be the mandatory retirement of Takasago-beya's Furiwake-oyakata in July which would open up a share for Toki.

While we're at it, let's look at the other upcoming retirements:

Oyakata

Heya

Ichimon

Haigyo Date

FuriwakeTakasagoTakasago2008/07/08
InagawaDewanoumiDewanoumi2008/09/04
AraisoAraisoNishonoseki2008/11/15
TanigawaHakkakuTakasago2008/12/25
AzumazekiAzumazekiTakasago2009/06/16
HidenoyamaSadogatakeNishonoseki2009/07/20
TamanoiTamanoiDewanoumi2009/09/03
TakadagawaTakadagawa---2010/03/09


I don't really see an immediate need for Inagawa-kabu so that one might enter the overall borrowing "rotation", unless one of Iwakiyama/Kasuganishiki/Otsukasa already requires it in a year. At the very least there aren't any current Dewanoumi-ichimon oyakata who are borrowing from outside and could stand to upgrade to a more stable share.

Araiso-kabu could be an interesting case with the attached mini-heya, given the recent change in heya-opening restrictions. I actually wonder if he could be persuaded to retire a year early for Harunoyama's benefit next month... FWIW, during his active days Araiso-oyakata was competing out of the pre-merger Futagoyama-beya, as did Harunoyama's shisho Matsugane-oyakata, so there might be a possible connection there. I certainly would expect Harunoyama to end up with the Araiso share next year (with or without the heya) at the latest if he can hang around with borrowed kabu until then as he doesn't really have a whole lot of other options available. That's assuming the kabu isn't already promised to somebody else as Nishonoseki-ichimon does have a few aging veterans with kabu eligibility around in Shunketsu and Tamakasuga, and Wakanosato might need his Nishiiwa share by then which would put ex-Takanotsuru into the competition, too.

Tanigawa-kabu might be another possible destination for Toki, but it becomes available a little late for the Chiyotenzan scenario, and in the long run this one might be going to Kaiho anyway if he wants it. BTW, I see in the DB that Tanigawa was fighting out of Takasago-beya...how did he end up in a stable that branched out from Kokonoe-beya?

Hidenoyama-kabu will probably relieve the pressure within Sadogatake-beya when it becomes available. It's still two years away, and by then Kotomitsuki might be looking for a share to own; additionally there's ex-Kotonishiki who has been making do with borrowed kabu so far (BTW, switching from the relatively stable Takenawa-kabu owned by Tochinonada to Kaio's Asakayama share back in July still looks pretty boneheaded to me), and also ex-Kotogaume and his Onaruto-kabu which is listed by Tamanaogijima as "ownership unclear" - I'm fairly sure it really is owned by Dejima and might be needed sooner or later.

Finally, Azumazeki/Tamanoi/Takadagawa-kabu all have successors lined up already, of course, though at least in the Takadagawa case another share would become available with ex-Akinoshima's Sendagawa-kabu.

Looking further ahead, these are the remaining mandatory retirements by oyakata born in the 1940s:

Oyakata

Heya

Ichimon

Haigyo Date

KiyomigataMihogasekiDewanoumi2011/01/21
IkazuchiTatsunamiTatsunami2011/06/30
IsenoumiIsenoumiTokitsukaze2011/09/26
OshimaOshimaTatsunami2012/04/25
IwatomoKasuganoDewanoumi2012/10/02
MinatoMinatoTokitsukaze2012/10/22
UrakazeKiriyamaTatsunami2012/12/05
ShikihideShikihideTokitsukaze2013/01/04
MusashigawaMusashigawaDewanoumi2013/02/04
NakamuraNakamuraTakasago2013/02/09
HanaregomaHanaregomaNishonoseki2013/02/16
KimigahamaHakkakuTakasago2013/07/02
TakekumaTomozunaTatsunami2013/11/12
ShiranuiOgurumaNishonoseki2013/11/14
MihogasekiMihogasekiDewanoumi2013/11/16
NishonosekiNishonosekiNishonoseki2013/11/18
DewanoumiDewanoumiDewanoumi2014/04/02
KataonamiKataonamiNishonoseki2014/11/24


Check out that glut of retirements in November 2013 (all within one week!), and more generally the run of 12 scheduled retirements from October 2012 to November 2013, about three times as many as you'd expect on average for a fourteen-month period.

#75 Washuyama

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 12:30

You mentioned Azumazeki already has a successor lined up... Who?? Takamisakari, I'm guessing (?)

Also, is Dejima (being former Ozeki) allowed to a jun-toshiyori? (3-yr)

Edited by Washuyama, 08 October 2007 - 12:37.





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