kesho mawashi sets, what to wear as yokozuna Options

[Gernobono]

going through my collection of honbasho-programs i realized that there is a series going on....it is about kesho mawashi-sets of yokozuna.....i know that any yokozuna got more than one set, but i thought i should scan the pictures and offer them on a small, admittedly not very professional-looking website

i guess the nsk will offer more pictures over the next years and i will try to fill the many spaces left with no pictures....

see here:

kesho mawashi sets

[Fay]

Hmmmmm, I only see snow-white kesho mawashi, I can't see anything :'-(


seems I should be more patient with my computers in my office .... sorry, the snow-white kesho mawashi get some colour.

Nice collection

This post has been edited by Fay: Oct 26, 2006, 13:22

[Manekineko]

By the way shouldn't this be in Ozumo discussions?

Moved. Thanks for the hint.

[Shakuyaku]

Thanks for the link! :)

In some cases, it would be really interesting to get the story behind the kesho mawashi.
So to speak, there was actually no pun intended.

Like why on earth has Akebono eggplants on one of his?
Why is there two old men on Kashiwado's?

If anybody has a good story to the shown kesho mawashi, please post it!

[Jejima]

I think there may be an error on the Chiyonofuji central kesho mawashi.

The '53' on the two attendant kesho-mawashi must refer to his 53 consecutive wins. The central one probably wants to show that number too in Roman Numerals. V = 5, X = 10, and I = 1. You can follow the thinking, but of course the correct way to write 53 in Roman Numerals is LIII (L = 50).

This post has been edited by Jejima: Oct 29, 2006, 06:27

[nabudetoulouse]

thank's (Sign of approval)

[kaiguma]

If anybody has a good story to the shown kesho mawashi, please post it!

I can definitely explain the meaning behind a few of them, especially the ones that feature prominent Japanese Landmarks. Unfortunately I don't have too much time at the moment, but I will work on it.

My question, or confirmation, from Gernobono is regarding Takanohana no kesho wawashi, as listed on your great little gem of a site. I first thought it was erroniously labeled either by you or the kyokai. Reason being, the sponsor at the bottom says: Wakanohana Support Club" and so I thought it actually Wakanohana III's, Takanohana's brother. Then I realize it may be a hand-me-down from their father, Wkanohana II? Or maybe even a gift from Wakanohana II's Support Club, which may have remained active after his intai and donated the mawashi set to his son, the first Wakanohana II offspring to make the rank?

Is this indeed Takanohana's mawashi set, and if so does anyone understand the link to Wakanohana Support Club?

[Asashosakari]

Wakanohana II isn't a member of the Hanada family...

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

Wakanohana II isn't a member of the Hanada family...

He was. For those new to the Hanada clan, a short explanation. Waka I & Taka I were brothers 21 years apart. Waka II was Waka I's deshi and son-in-law for a while. Waka III & Taka II were Taka I's sons and therefore they are also Waka I's nephews.

However Hanada Shigehiro, former yokozuna Tochinoumi Teruyoshi, is not related even though he hailed from Aomori prefecture as well.

[Gernobono]

Waka I & Taka I were brothers 21 years apart.

i guess you do not think of taka I but of ozeki takanohana
numbers after the name are only added for yokozuna as fas as i know

[Shakuyaku]

He was. For those new to the Hanada clan, a short explanation. Waka I & Taka I were brothers 21 years apart. Waka II was Waka I's deshi and son-in-law for a while. Waka III & Taka II were Taka I's sons and therefore they are also Waka I's nephews.

I had to read that one a couple of times, and write a diagram, to get a grip on the situation!
Complicated family connections seems to be a universal thing...

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

i guess you do not think of taka I but of ozeki takanohana
numbers after the name are only added for yokozuna as fas as i know

Whenever I see Takanohana the yokozuna referred with a numeral it seems to be II so his late father the ozeki must be the I. Moreover the first father & son ozeki pair are also called Masuiyama I & Masuiyama II to tell them apart so I'd say the numerals are used from ozeki upwards. Takasago Oyakata was called Asashio V during his active days and there was talk at the time of Asashoryu's yokozuna promotion that he'd become Asashio VI.

Also witness the Tochiazumas. No one (I think) calls Tochiazuma the ozeki Tochiazuma II as his father was sekiwake at his highest. Then again these are naturally just conventions. I doubt NSK has some kind of official document where these kind of things are decreed.

[Asashosakari]

Wakanohana II isn't a member of the Hanada family...

He was. For those new to the Hanada clan, a short explanation. Waka I & Taka I were brothers 21 years apart. Waka II was Waka I's deshi and son-in-law for a while. Waka III & Taka II were Taka I's sons and therefore they are also Waka I's nephews.

That's what I get for tossing off a quick message. I meant to say that he wasn't related by blood, which is what kaiguma seemed to imply.

This post has been edited by Asashosakari: Oct 30, 2006, 13:17

[Yubiquitoyama]

i guess you do not think of taka I but of ozeki takanohana
numbers after the name are only added for yokozuna as fas as i know

Whenever I see Takanohana the yokozuna referred with a numeral it seems to be II so his late father the ozeki must be the I. Moreover the first father & son ozeki pair are also called Masuiyama I & Masuiyama II to tell them apart so I'd say the numerals are used from ozeki upwards. Takasago Oyakata was called Asashio V during his active days and there was talk at the time of Asashoryu's yokozuna promotion that he'd become Asashio VI.

Also witness the Tochiazumas. No one (I think) calls Tochiazuma the ozeki Tochiazuma II as his father was sekiwake at his highest. Then again these are naturally just conventions. I doubt NSK has some kind of official document where these kind of things are decreed.

For the most part, these numerals are simply there to make a distinction in a specific situation to make it clear to the intended readers what rikishi is referred to. In this way I have used numerals for both Takanohana and Tochiazuma at times, but I think in those cases it is mostly an english-language invention. When applicable, Japanese sources often seem to rather use the first kanji of the first name of the shikona for the same distinction purposes. When it comes to shikona with the same first and surname numerals are more practical of course. One of the reasons it mostly occurs for yokozunas is in my opinion that it's seldom necessary to distinguish between different rikishi other than in lists of that kind, and that any other numbering in such cases would simply make it muddier rather than clearer (for example the shikona Wakanohana was used at least ones before the first Yokozuna used it).

Even so, there does seem to exist a more official numbering policy when it comes to some highly regarded shikonas "owned" by someone (for example a heya or the Kyokai). Asashio seems to be such a shikona which often is followed by a number even when such a distinction seems unnecessary (and note that not all Asashio Taros reached Ozeki). Masuiyama also seems to be such a shikona so although the numbers 1 and 2 often occur after the last two users to distinguish them, both being Ozeki and all, there is also a numbering which puts them as users 5 and 6 respectively of that shikona. I suspect there are others (maybe for example the shikona Konishiki Yasokichi which to date has had two users). I agree though that there are hardly any rules at all written down about this, but some shikonas are definitely officially restricted from the side of the Kyokai when it comes to usages outside of sumo (as seen with for example Konishiki).

This post has been edited by Yubiquitoyama: Oct 30, 2006, 13:39

[kaiguma]

Wakanohana II isn't a member of the Hanada family...

He was. For those new to the Hanada clan, a short explanation. Waka I & Taka I were brothers 21 years apart. Waka II was Waka I's deshi and son-in-law for a while. Waka III & Taka II were Taka I's sons and therefore they are also Waka I's nephews.

That's what I get for tossing off a quick message. I meant to say that he wasn't related by blood, which is what kaiguma seemed to imply.

Wow, well a simple false assumption on my part has started two discussions totally different than I intended, but very interesting ones nonetheless!

I also have trouble following the family tree but I think I have it now. So, let me correct my question:

Was Taka II's mawashi set a gift from Waka I/II's support club, a hand-me-down from WakaI/II, or in fact mislabeled by either Kyokai or Gernobono and the set pictured actually belonged to WakaIII?

In other words, did Takanohana get this mawashi from good old Uncle Wakanohana, Cousin Wakanohana, support club of one of the two, or is the explanation even more complex?

Thanks to anyone who can enlighten on this obscure question.
Kaiguma

[Kintamayama]

Waka I & Taka I were brothers 21 years apart.

And of course, there is the rumor that Waka I is actually Taka I's father.